OT: Taylor Hawkins of the Foo Fighters died
Something happened in South America last night, but not a lot of details have been shared. Dead at 50.
What goes on in these hotel rooms? Saget and now Hawkins. smh
i think the implication is overdose. fentanyl is killing people by the truckloads and is a likely suspect. it is a relatively new drug but is 100X more powerful than regular morphine, which is very powerful on its own. the unwitting user takes a pill or two, maybe has some booze with it, and they die. way too easy, totally unintentional, and it is scary how quickly it happens and how accessible it is.
100 times more powerful, you really have to take a moment to grasp what that means. In hospitals, fentanyl doses are in the micrograms, while morphine doses are in milligrams. Morphine is a potent analgesic in its own right, as well as a CNS depressant; that tells you something right there about the risk of a fentanyl overdose.
More perspective - morphine, in WWII, was the pain killer given to mortally wounded soldiers. The thought was not only to get them out of pain, but that they were going to die because of injury so the risk of overdose was of limited value.
I had fentanyl once. It was in an ambulance. They said they were going to give me a tiny amount to manage my pain for the ambulance ride. As soon as they injected it, my vision went out for what felt like 30 seconds. I couldn’t believe something could work so fast.
Who is producing it?
If you've ever known a fentanyl addict, it's horrific. It's usually snorted, called "chee" on the streets. And the buyer rarely knows the concentration of the product they are buying, hence the frequency of overdoses. And their body won't let them go a day without more once addicted. Jail is the best option. They can usually recover after five days of torture being forced to be away from the stuff. It's a curse upon our society.
very true and sad. We lose as many fellow citizens in one year to opiod deaths as we did during our entire time in Vietnam.
Decriminalize all drugs (different than legalize)
I'm pissed about Tom Petty. He had a back problem during a tour. He was in LA. Instead of wasting time in Americas flawless medical system to get a legal prescription, he walked around the corner and got what he thought was getting T-3/Codine pill. Instead he got fentanyl as well and died. no intention of taking fentanyl. fentanyl is also cut with coke these days (fun!). So a kid who makes the terrible mistake to experiment with a little nose candy, has coke and fentanyl in their system and overdose. I'm in a position where I'm going to tell my kids, "hey, I'm not saying don't take coke for the sake of coke, i'm saying don't take coke because it could have this other thing in it that could kill you" Question: Did i just implicitly greenlight pure nose candy? It's depressing. But hey, Hockey right!
I can't understand why coke is cut with fentanyl. What happened to laxative or baby powder?
March 26th, 2022 at 10:30 AM ^
I guess if your product is shit, and barely has any coke (expensive) cut the baby powder with fentanyl and you have something you can pass on the streets as coke. Ethics is not a big thing in drug dealing.
March 26th, 2022 at 11:35 AM ^
I'm so glad I did my experimenting in the 60s. Dealers weren't trying to kill you. Purple micro-dot, blotter acid, some mescaline and shrooms. Plus some fine pot and hashish.
/back when AA was really cool
March 26th, 2022 at 10:38 AM ^
He was in Colombia. If it was coke, I doubt it was cut with fentanyl. Unless he brought it with him. But bringing coke to Colombia is like bringing a date to singles night at a porn convention, so…
March 26th, 2022 at 11:55 AM ^
Basically this. There's also little chance an A-list rock star's coke was stepped on by much of anything unless it was 4am street coke.
How much coke have you done? It's hit-and-miss every time no matter how much you pay or who is your connection.
Well, maybe you own a farm in Columbia. But if not...
@MMBbones
First, it’s Colombia (two Os, no U; pet peeve). Second, Colombia produces about 75-90% of all the cocaine on Earth. While it’s not nearly as popular there as it is here (ironically), you can find it everywhere. In fact, I’ve observed that if you look like an American or a European and you’re in a tourist area, someone will pass you whispering “coca” at least twice an hour. They know the market well, and it’s los gringos. Now, I’m not a consumer myself, but I’ve heard from others that the stuff you buy on the street is far purer and more potent (and way cheaper) than anything you’ll get in America, and noticeably so. That, of course, makes perfect sense, since there is absolutely no supply problem; in fact, local supply dramatically outpaces local demand. With so much more supply than demand of a local product grown (in some cases) just miles from where it’s being sold, why on Earth would anyone cut it with a product (fentanyl) they’d need to pay a premium to illegally import from south or east Asia? From what I’ve seen today, it sounds like Hawkins called the front desk at his hotel complaining of chest pains, and was dead before the ambulance arrived. While we may never know, my guess is that he bought some damn near pure cocaine and OD’d, with fentanyl playing no role at all.
Colombia. Yes. Thank you.
You may very well be correct that fentanyl had no role. Having spent tens of thousands on coca products, I am skeptical that cocaine or crack would have killed him unless this was one of his first exposures to said compound, no matter how pure. You can only get so pure. You can't get >100%. Maybe it was just the cocaine? But as a rock star, it probably wasn't unless he really binged. That is a very unfair stereotype on my part, coloring rock stars as crackheads, I know. I'm just looking at the odds. Whatever happened, may he rest in peace.
can't speak to the truth of these details, but this just in:
Foo Fighters drummer Taylor Hawkins 'had ten different drugs in his system including heroin, marijuana, antidepressants and opioids' when he died in Colombia hotel
Witnesses at the hotel tell me Taylor Hawkins called the front desk for help due to "chest pain" before being found dead in his room.' He added: 'Taylor Hawkins died of overdose. Colombian authorities found: marihuana, antidepressants, opioids, heroine. At least 10 different substances found, sources tell me.' Fans (right) have been massing at the hotel all day to pay their respects.
Wouldn’t surprise me. The drug cocktails seem to be a common killer. Of course, there’s no way they done a full autopsy or screened him for drugs
hospitals do it all the time and very quickly. they aren't the best at quantifying the drugs, but they are good for qualitatively identifying what's on board.
You’d know better than I. And Bogota definitely has the best facilities and personnel in the country, so could be.
You can order fentanyl from China online and if it gets intercepted, they will send it to you again at no extra charge. Anyone who wants it can get fentanyl in bulk. Getting a laxative or baby powder from Amazon is no more nor less difficult than ordering fentanyl. That's why it's so bad.
I always cut with vitamin d
March 26th, 2022 at 10:58 AM ^
My 18 and 16 year old completely agree and most of their friends are scared about any street drugs. I don’t know if it is true but they heard even marijuana has been laced with fentanyl in rare cases.
March 26th, 2022 at 10:03 AM ^
I would have to disagree with your assertion that jail is the best option for a fentanyl addict, or any addict for that matter. Not only is forced, total, and unmanaged abstinence, such as extreme measures like incarceration, extremely unlikely to ever contribute to sobriety, whether short or long-term, it’s also medically dangerous. And sadly enough, in my experience jail staff tend to be apathetic to the plight of a withdrawing addict, so it’s rare that inmates are properly being monitored during this time. No one comes out of jail a recovering addict
March 26th, 2022 at 10:15 AM ^
Thank you for this. So let me continue.
Fentanyl addiction is very different from, say, alcohol addiction. Forced abstinence from alcohol can and will kill. By "jail" I include any forced abstinence. The fentanyl addict will always say, "I feel like my body is trying to crawl out of my skin" when they don't get their next fix. It is unbearable for them. But it goes away after several nearly unbearable days if forced to abstain. Then they have a choice to make. And, yes, most times they choose to go back to the drug. But sometimes they don't.
Do you have a better suggestion? I have dealt with many addicts. I have driven them to drug houses and paid for their fix just for a chance to talk them into options. The only times I have seen someone break from fentanyl is after being locked up for quite some time and then being discharged to a rehab center.
If anyone knows a better solution, please share. And thank you in advance.
March 26th, 2022 at 11:43 AM ^
I’m a criminal defense attorney who has had the privilege of working with many different substance abuse treatment providers, medical professionals, etc.. Jail is a terrible treatment plan for sobriety. It’s not an appropriate setting for detox, crisis intervention, or short-term or long-term sobriety. It is an archaic method of keeping individuals out of the community based on motivations driven by the most outdated stereotypes, absolutes, and over-generalizations (i.e., drug addicts are a danger to the public). If your sole treatment plan is to take away something they desire to the point they will do most anything to obtain it, wait a few days, and then hope that they make the “right” choice, you’re grossly underestimating addiction as a disease. Addiction is not a temporary lapse in judgment, it’s a crippling battle that lasts a lifetime. Long-term sobriety is achieved by education, accountability, counseling, community support, and sometimes medication assistance. Not by “flushing out” physical symptoms of substance withdrawal. What do you think that addict is going to do as soon as they’re done with withdrawal? Or when they get around the only “community” (of addicts) they’ve ever known (or the only community they have left)? Relapse in an instance, that’s what.
Also, I realize you didn’t ask for it, but here’s some legal advice: don’t participate in any way to someone getting high or getting their “fix.” By your description, at best you’re an accomplice to possessing the illegal drug with these people, or by “paying for their fix” you’re an accomplice to delivering it to them. At worst, whatever you paid for kills them, and you’re now on the hook for delivery causing death. None of these scenarios is advisable.
March 26th, 2022 at 11:55 AM ^
Of course you are right on one level. But when you watch someone drowning, you do the first thing that comes to mind. But, again, what is the better option? The fentanyl addict is incapable of choosing to quit. They just can't do it. If you can refer me to an inspiring story to change my mind, please do.
Scenario: she is going to sell herself for her next fix. So you give her some money without asking anything back so you can talk to her about this rehab center that you know that seems to have nice people. Legally inadvisable, yes. Morally? I don't know.
appreciate your take(s) ngowings, i would add that its a classic case of 'both are true' - as a generalization a jail is the worst place to detox and, in extreme circumstances, is dangerous to health and by and large places of incarceration do a terrible job at summoning appropriate care. but the flip-side is also true: jail is frequently the only place they'll stop. and if they stay sober long enough that starts to feel 'normal' and is a first step to at least the possibility of sobriety. without that basic foundation in place there is virtually no chance that a hard core addict is simply going to stop.
March 26th, 2022 at 10:38 AM ^
Jail has proven to be a disastrous “treatment” for addicts. That’s a very Nancy Reagan approach to a disease. Good lord.
March 26th, 2022 at 11:46 AM ^
Again, mackbru, let's hear the better option.
Not all drugs are the same. Crack addicts, as an example, don't face the dangers fentanyl addicts face. Fentanyl will kill on any given day, and the brutal withdrawals are rarely lethal. "Nancy Reagan == bad but I have no better idea" is not very helpful.
March 26th, 2022 at 12:25 PM ^
I wish your thinking was in place in the 80’s when crack ravaged through the inner cities and causing death and mass incarceration. Drug abuse was considered a crime. Three arrests, life in prison. No treatment options or drugs given away to prevent overdosing. These arrest led to kids growing up with one or both parents incarcerated. This community is still feeling the effects of this mass incarceration. Any overdose is sad and I feel for his family. It’s amazing as the demographic of drug abusers changes, so does the penalties and the narrative on what drug abuse is. It is now a illness that requires treatment, not a crime as it was in the 80s
It's also being used in combination with other drugs, or even worse, being mixed in with them so people take it unwittingly. Fentanyl is suspected to have killed Prince and Tom Pettty as well.
Fentanyl eventually kills everyone who uses it regularly. Exceptions do prove the rule, but the rule still stands. Prince and Mr. Petty are the most well-known of hundreds of thousands of test cases.
Sorry for way over-commenting. But I have shed many tears over friends/acquaintances lying dead because of fentanyl. Even heroin isn't as bad, even though the two are so, so close. Fentanyl == death.
It was implicated in the death of Delores O'Riordan as well.
We also lost Gary Brooker (Procol Harum) last week, although not to an overdose.
Really saddened by this. It is a cold day in the sun.
March 26th, 2022 at 12:27 PM ^
Indeed a cold day. And a sad one.
WHAT THE HELL!
He also became Foo Fighters frontman Dave Grohl’s closest friend. In Grohl’s 2021 autobiography The Storyteller, Grohl referred to Hawkins his “brother from another mother, my best friend, a man for whom I would take a bullet” and recalled, “Upon first meeting, our bond was immediate, and we grew closer with every day, every song, every note that we ever played together. We are absolutely meant to be, and I am grateful that we found each other in this lifetime.”
RIP Mr. Hawkins
Definitely a recommended read.
He was also the drummer on Alanis Morrisettes Jagged Little Pill album.
RIP Taylor.
March 26th, 2022 at 10:58 AM ^
Indeed he was. Just great musicality all around with him. Fucking heartbreaking.
March 26th, 2022 at 11:26 AM ^
If he died from taking pills that is sort of a strange [factoid.]
Sucks. RIP
March 26th, 2022 at 10:16 AM ^
The best concert Ive been to was Foo Fighters in 2012 during the Democratic convention in Charlotte. They played a small venue-about 800 people. Started taking requests after about 3 hours. Taylor was amazing and looked like he was the happiest man on earth.
RIP Mr Hawkins
March 26th, 2022 at 10:27 AM ^
This has been an issue for years now. Many people have died. Let's cancel drug culture please.
March 26th, 2022 at 10:35 AM ^
Just an fyi that as of this moment his cause of death is unconfirmed. So, speculate away...
March 26th, 2022 at 10:36 AM ^
Just an fyi that as of this moment his cause of death is unconfirmed. So, speculate away...
March 26th, 2022 at 10:43 AM ^
This fucked my morning up. Loved him. Loved him in Foo. Genuine human being who seemed like he made the world a better place for everyone. Can't have enough people like that and hurts to lose any of them.
March 26th, 2022 at 11:04 AM ^
Wow, thi sucks. One of my favorite bands and he seemed like a really cool guy.
Still watch the Everlong video from time to time. RIP Taylor.