O/T: Talking Cars Tuesday: The Death of Chrysler?
I read an article today in which different analysts suggested that the merger of FCA and PSA would end up eliminating chrysler. The 300 hasn't been touched and likely will be retired soon; leaving Chrysler with 1 product; the Pacifica. Not much to go on.
I admit this makes me sad. My car buying history has split between Chrysler (products) and Ford; and honestly I've had good luck with all the brands. I put 190K miles on a Dodge Intrepid; 205K on an XJ, 240K on a ZJ (God I loved the 318); and 205K on my old Five Hundred. Now I have a 300 AWD that has the 8spd/3.5 liter and I get 30 on the Highway and 21 around town. The biggest problem in them all was that they all rusted out at the end. Most of my uncles worked for either Ford or Chrysler.
I'm bummed by the loss of Chrysler if it happens, but without them putting money into product, and without them having any SUV's, I just don't see it happening.
So, what about it, those in the know; any chance Chrysler could get resurrected with the infusion of cash in an attempt to get more margin on some brands? I'd love to see an upscale version of something built on the Cherokee platform; and Durango platform. Maybe try again with the Alpine?
I'm not a fan of SUV's or wagon's so much anymore; but I don't know that you can build a company with a future around Jeep and RAM.
January 21st, 2020 at 10:55 AM ^
What would happen to Jeep? Still around? Sold off? Spun off?
January 21st, 2020 at 11:01 AM ^
Word is the name of the new merged company will be JEEP Inc. it’s not going anywhere.
January 21st, 2020 at 11:10 AM ^
FCA's brands with cars on sale in the US today:
- Chrysler (2 vehicles, 300 & Pacifica/Voyager)
- Dodge (4 vehicles, Charger, Challenger, Journey, Durango)
- Jeep (6 vehicles, Renegade, Compass, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, Wrangler, Gladiator)
- Alfa Romeo (2 vehicles, Giulia & Stelvio)
- Fiat (1 Vehicle, 500X)
- Ram (2 Vehicles, 1500 & 2500/3500)
I'd argue that they're trying to figure out what they're doing with the Chrysler, Dodge, Alfa and Fiat brands in the US.
January 21st, 2020 at 11:28 AM ^
Not much to figure out with RAM. Hugely popular and profitable. RAM is primarily responsible for Fiat-Chrysler profits, and is getting more of the "pickup" market share. In fact, GM market share is decreasing just as rapidly as RAM is increasing. RAM has also been ranked #1 in interior layout and #2 in technology for pickups. Basically, it's a great truck that is carrying the Fiat-Chrysler brand and keeping it afloat, even moreso than Jeep.
January 21st, 2020 at 1:40 PM ^
Fiat holds it own on an international market just not big in the US
January 21st, 2020 at 5:34 PM ^
How do they do that with only one car?
January 21st, 2020 at 11:29 PM ^
I love the tech inside the RAMs, but the main reason they're picking up so much market share is that they discount the hell out of them to move the product. GM and Ford don't have to do that.
January 21st, 2020 at 11:30 AM ^
Wow, Chrysler with only 2 vehicles! Crazy. Too bad :(
On a side note, ....
TESLA is now worth 98 billion dollars.
Ford + GM COMBINED are worth 86 billion.
Let that sink in!
January 21st, 2020 at 11:51 AM ^
Sink pic is gold, Jerry, gold.
January 21st, 2020 at 2:23 PM ^
Once again exposing my ignorance.... I don't get it.
January 21st, 2020 at 2:32 PM ^
Open the door and "let that sink in."
January 21st, 2020 at 11:47 AM ^
Tesla is way overvalued, but their cars are sweet to drive and if they can fill out their product line before the money runs out I think they'll eventually be one of the largest automakers.
Also my best friend works there and he made a ton of money on his stock options. So that'll get me a free trip to California sometime soon. Which is nice.
January 21st, 2020 at 1:15 PM ^
They also need to make sure that their self-driving cars stop killing people. Granted, there's a lot of user error/stupidity involved, but a bad look for the brand nonetheless whenever it happens.
January 21st, 2020 at 1:31 PM ^
It's pretty much appalling to me that they're allowed to get away with outright stating that they're "beta testing" their systems with consumers. They figure that's OK because that's what you do with software, their consumers are OK with it because they'll put up with incredible amounts of abuse from Tesla, and regulators are OK with it because ???????
January 21st, 2020 at 5:44 PM ^
I love making money on Tesla options too. Beats the heck out of sitting in an office all day!
January 21st, 2020 at 6:51 PM ^
US Sales
General Motors - 2,954,037
Ford - 2,485,222
FCA - 2,235,205
Tesla - 182,400 (estimated)
Let that sink in too!!!
January 21st, 2020 at 2:34 PM ^
From this list it really appears that FCA is *trying* to make each brand distinct and appealing by having very little overlap among vehicle types.
RAM is obviously trucks, Jeep is SUVs, Dodge is performance sedans/minivans, Alfa is Euro sports sedans, Fiat is tiny cars, and Chrysler is supposed to be luxury sedan/minivans.
I think it's a good strategy, and stands in opposition to the traditional the General Motors strategy, which is to try make every brand they have offer every type of vehicle, which is why you have Chevy SUVs, Buick SUVs, GMC SUVs, etc.
January 21st, 2020 at 4:13 PM ^
IMO, the sedan and mini van are pretty much dead. Everyone has to sell SUVs (in various shapes/sizes) because that is what consumers want.
January 21st, 2020 at 4:40 PM ^
I agree with you on sedan being dead. But until they can design a SUV that seats as many as a minivan AND carries as much stuff in the back, the minivan is here to stay.
It isn't sexy, but I can haul around more stuff in the back of my minivan than I could in any but the very largest of SUVs out there. That matters a ton.
January 21st, 2020 at 11:30 AM ^
All I can say is there will be a lot of sad Denver residents if Jeep disappears. Wranglers and Cherokees are quite popular here.
January 21st, 2020 at 11:33 AM ^
Jeep and RAM are single handedly keeping FCA afloat (even though Jeep sales hgave slumped the last year or two). They aren't going anywhere for a while methinks
January 21st, 2020 at 12:00 PM ^
Some people seem to be misinterpreting the phrase "death of Chrysler" to mean "death of the entire car company under the larger international umbrella." That's understandable, since to Michigan folk "Chrysler" tends to be shorthand for the larger Big 3 company.
But what this appears to be discussing is simply the elimination of the Chrysler brand as a make of vehicle. The discussion is not, "will Chrysler/Dodge/Ram/Jeep fold," but, "will this international corporation bother keeping a brand alive to sell one vehicle?"
Old makes are disappearing, of course. Plymouth, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Mercury... there just isn't a need for them anymore.
For my lifetime, Chrysler has been the producer of somewhat nicer cars, meant to appeal to people who want a car that was more luxurious than a Chevy Lumina or a Ford Taurus, but not as fancy or expensive as something like a Mercedes. There used to be room for that kind of product, but there just isn't anymore.
The stuff that people buy, SUVs and crossovers and halo stuff like muscle cars, are still made and sold by the company, but under different nameplates. Dodge has cultivated a sportier image, while Ram has been spun off into its own brand. Jeep has a market that it will never lose. The Pacifica is really the only unique Chrysler product that is left, and even that isn't as popular as perhaps it should be.
If the brand goes, I'll be sad. The company is fine.
January 21st, 2020 at 12:50 PM ^
Not sure why this was negged. There were something like 2,000 automobile companies in 1910 (throw an engine on a wagon.) The car became a commodity at the time of the 70’s energy crisis. (Don’t know if Toyota knew this but they were the first to stop trying to re-design and just focus on doing it over and better.). Cars are no longer personal statements as much as transportation. Brands aren’t as helpful as they once were)
January 21st, 2020 at 12:53 PM ^
Precisely this.
id like the marque to remain, and I think given the increased margin for luxury brands it’s worth trying to cultivate/expand. Maybe bring back a sweet Durango based vehicle but Uber luxurious and call it the Imperial.
January 21st, 2020 at 1:07 PM ^
Pretty sure they’re doing this but it’ll be under the Jeep nameplate. They’re calling it the Grand Wagoneer, with a price tag north of 6 figs on some models
January 21st, 2020 at 4:01 PM ^
If you look at Chrysler historically, the brand itself was just Walter Chrysler slapping his name on a failing brand he bought (Maxwell) and lucking into buying Dodge when both brothers died in a short time period. Without the superior engineering built by the Dodge brothers, Chrysler would have failed. Chrysler himself wasn’t a car guy, nor a Detroit guy. He was a New York investor, which is why the Chrysler Building was there and there was never a major Detroit area headquarters until they built that big taxpayer funded one in Auburn Hills.
January 22nd, 2020 at 1:03 AM ^
Jeep is very profitable, as are most SUVs for US manufacturers.
January 21st, 2020 at 10:56 AM ^
Loss of competition isn't a good thing in my mind, but ultimately they have a reputation for less that stellar vehicles for a reason.
January 21st, 2020 at 12:10 PM ^
I somewhat agree with you. I have a lot of family that works for Ford, but I love my Jeeps. I am hoping that the new Bronco coming next year creates a new rivalry that pushes Jeep and Ford to keep looking at new and innovative ways to one-up the other.
If the Bronco ends up being great I am going to have to give it serious consideration since it's hard to pass up an A Plan on the right vehicle.
From everything I am reading the Bronco is being designed as direct competition for the Wrangler (Removable Roof/Doors, Bolts vs. clips for easy installation of aftermarket parts, etc). I never buy a first year production car, but I'm currently in a 2016 Wrangler so I have some time to let the bugs get worked out.
January 21st, 2020 at 1:24 PM ^
Seems to me competition is heating up. Detroit has 2 EV companies (Rivian & Bollinger) bringing SUVs/Trucks to the market in the next year or two. All signs point to being able to purchase cars on Amazon soon, opening up the ability to purchase more cars/brands in America then ever before.
I guess it sucks that we are losing a mini van from the market, but I don't know what they add now that a larger SUV doesn't.
January 21st, 2020 at 1:42 PM ^
A valid point. Not so much loss of competition but rather the end result of it increasing and one company having inferior products.
January 21st, 2020 at 2:01 PM ^
Better packaging and economy in a minivan.
January 21st, 2020 at 10:57 AM ^
The Grand Wagoneer is making a come back. From what I have been told, it is going to be a large, expensive ass SUV.
January 21st, 2020 at 1:01 PM ^
They better sell a wood panel option!
January 21st, 2020 at 2:04 PM ^
Wood panel? They'll be able to buff this out, no problem....
January 21st, 2020 at 7:54 PM ^
Who doesn't like a woody!!!
January 21st, 2020 at 11:04 AM ^
If you can make the fuel economy work, the best company future you can have is with just SUVs and trucks. They're profit machines.
Battery vehicles and autonomous vehicles cloud the horizon of this space for the intermediate and long term, but if you're talking about combustible engines - and you can make hybrids worthwhile to meet CAFE standards - this is a great strategy. No use setting money on fire on cars that no one wants to buy.
January 21st, 2020 at 11:05 AM ^
The question is what is the Chrysler brand? What's the goal? Is it a BMW fighter like Cadillac? You've got Alfa Romeo for that. Is it US luxury like Lincoln to fight Lexus? That hasn't gone well for anyone.
Fancy SUVs? Jeep has that covered - the Grand Wagoneer is supposedly going to compete with a Range Rover.
Sporty cars? Isn't that what Dodge should be?
January 21st, 2020 at 11:13 AM ^
Lexus is a terrible brand for the money.
January 21st, 2020 at 11:34 AM ^
It really is. My mom bought a Lexus a few years ago and the badging didn't make it feel any better than your average Toyota.
Not that Toyotas are that bad, but if you really want to pay too much for a Corolla, be my guest.
January 21st, 2020 at 11:39 AM ^
I like Infiniti. At least they're fun to drive. Lexus is boring as shit.
January 21st, 2020 at 11:53 AM ^
That's what she bought next actually! Fantastic car.
January 21st, 2020 at 12:17 PM ^
I have 2. The older one is an 02 with 200k miles. It's just now needing a new suspension, and it's getting pretty rusty, but it has been very reliable. And it has a heated steering wheel, which I was fucking pissed to discover my newer one didn't have.
January 21st, 2020 at 12:38 PM ^
That’s because they’re just Toyotas dressed up to look nice. They still drive like Toyotas.
The one thing that most companies haven’t been able to replicate when trying to compete with Mercedes and BMW is the driver experience. That’s because most other high end brands are just econo-boxes with fancy trim packages. Cadillac was the one exception, but they’re starting to share a lot more with other GMs than they did in the past.
January 21st, 2020 at 2:40 PM ^
Lexii are driver's cars for people who don't like driving or cars.
Agree about Merc and BMW, but the current BMW oil setup on their I4s and I6s is terrible. Guaranteed to leak and require $800-$2k in repairs after 30-40k miles. BMW should just stop making V8s.
The Cadillac sedans handle so well because the Caddy chassis is a late-model 3-series chassis knockoff. The don't sell well because traditional buyers aren't looking for sports sedans and they didn't do a great job marketing to the traditional Merc/BMW/Audi buying demographic.
January 21st, 2020 at 3:15 PM ^
I've heard that part of the BMW problem is that the dealer recommended and conducted oil change schedule is inadequate.
January 21st, 2020 at 6:02 PM ^
That is correct.
BMW says, "10k miles between oil changes, give or take, no problem!" on these high-boost engines because they are trying to save money on their comprehensive warranty program. It's cheaper for them to stretch that service interval and deal with a few engine failures than recommend everyone come back on a 5k interval.
Any good independent BMW mechanic will tell you, "oil changes every 5k miles, like clockwork."
January 21st, 2020 at 3:22 PM ^
BMW needs to bring back the damn straight six. Fantastic engines. I don't know what they're doing anymore.