OT - Michigan Women's Hockey - why?
Ira on WTKA has expressed his ongoing support for women's hockey. Ira seems to have some personal interest as he would like to see his Daughter one day play at Michigan. I have heard the estimated cost of women's program at D1 about $3 Million. It's going to always lose millions of dollars.
If you have tried to watch women's hockey on television it's not exactly dynamic and attendance figures seem to agree. Ohio won the National Championship in 2021 and they were 8th in overall attendance of the 41 programs that paly (4th of 4 in the B1G and 8th overall)
Ohio 19-Dates, 8,559-Total, 450 per date Avg.
https://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/division-i-women/2021-2022/
The current Michigan women's sports line up seems robust/successful already.
- BASKETBALLScheduleRoster
- CROSS COUNTRYScheduleRoster
- FIELD HOCKEYScheduleRoster
- GOLFScheduleRoster
- GYMNASTICSScheduleRoster
- LACROSSEScheduleRoster
- ROWINGScheduleRoster
- SOCCERScheduleRoster
- SOFTBALLScheduleRoster
- SWIMMING/DIVINGScheduleRoster
- TENNISScheduleRoster
- TRACK & FIELDScheduleRoster
- VOLLEYBALLScheduleRoster
- WATER POLOScheduleRoster
If it will lose $-millions to support, has low attendance figures and is not fun to watch why Women's Hockey?
August 15th, 2022 at 2:59 PM ^
“Not fun to watch?” That’s not a reason.
/be-less-shitty
August 15th, 2022 at 3:07 PM ^
Women's softball is awesome and the correct dimensions to athlete. The speed of the game, competitive balance and athlete to field dimension is perfect.
Women's hockey is not close to softball for the viewer.
Women's basketball would benefit from lowering the rim 6" and moving the tournament to not play at the same time as the Men's but again night and day difference to Women's hockey.
Nothing shitty telling you Women's Hockey is not fun to watch compared to other women's sports Michigan already supports.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:27 PM ^
For me, golf is not fun to watch. I'm sure others will have a different opinion.
15,359 attended one Wisconsin Women's Hockey game:
...so there's that.
August 15th, 2022 at 6:59 PM ^
H2V,
How dare you post something so reasonable and sensible.
The PC do-nothing hypocrites on this board will eat you alive.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:10 PM ^
I just strongly disagree. I have a partial bias, I suppose, as I come from a serious hockey family, including my mother who went semi-pro as a star defender for the Michigan Mini-Wings. They often opened for the Redwings in the era of Olympia Stadium. In her prime, she was one of the US’s best female players. Unfortunately, this was at a time before women’s ice hockey had representation at the olympics.
Years later, our family was much larger and still traveling the Midwest and Ontario for everyone’s tournaments. And even in my mom’s 40’s, at a lesser level of play, the women’s tournaments were indisputably fun.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:12 PM ^
Your interest is similar to Ira's but at the cost of Millions per year?
August 15th, 2022 at 3:20 PM ^
Even if your argument about watchability were bulletproof, you neglect to acknowledge the other reasons to invest in a new sport.
Most of them (to cultivate a campus community, join a national community, support broader interests, stand for something) have nothing to do with average viewers, let alone specific viewers.
No one adds non-revenue sports to improve the financial ledger. And, many times, it makes sense to even add expensive ones for intangible reasons alone.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:31 PM ^
May be renovate the Men's locker room bathroom, once every five years, instead of two years. The AD can find the money if they want to. Do you see the broadcast deal this time? And the ticket prices for Football/Basketball, and the merchandise prices?
August 15th, 2022 at 3:40 PM ^
Doesn't every women's sport "cost millions per year" and not turn a profit? Not to mention most men's sports? Sounds like you have a personal grudge against hockey for some reason.
August 15th, 2022 at 4:17 PM ^
It sounds more like the grudge is against women, but I completely agree with your first two sentence.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:46 PM ^
CarrIs! So cool! Congratulations to your mother. VERY impressive.
Also, on a personal note, despite not being a major hockey fan, I luvvvved Olympia Stadium. One of my top 5 favorite arenas of any I've been in all over the US.
August 15th, 2022 at 4:22 PM ^
I really enjoyed watching the US women’s team at the Olympics. Seemed to flow well and had fewer stoppages
August 15th, 2022 at 4:41 PM ^
much more of a finesse game, for sure.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:03 PM ^
Let me guess, you feel they are wearing too much clothing.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:40 PM ^
Hail 2 Victors - "Those girls are trying to take a job from an able-bodied man, and they should know to stay at home and raise children. This is what happens when you send girls to college."
August 15th, 2022 at 3:55 PM ^
Nothing to see here.
[EDIT: my comment, intended as a sarcastic joke, verged into politics, so I deleted it.]
August 15th, 2022 at 3:03 PM ^
Just here to say the 2018 women's gold medal game was electric, and as heartbreaking as the 2014 game was, it also was great.
August 15th, 2022 at 5:02 PM ^
I think the 2022 women's gold game was the highest rated hockey game in the last year
August 15th, 2022 at 3:05 PM ^
Women's ice hockey at the Olympics is always fun to watch - especially USA vs Canada.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:11 PM ^
Maybe at the Olympic level though I doubt the TV ratings showed your interest.
At a cost of Millions per year to the Athletic Department why Women's Hockey?
August 15th, 2022 at 3:13 PM ^
Unless it's your millions, why not?
August 15th, 2022 at 3:14 PM ^
Because we're a strong hockey state with robust representation at the high school level and it'd be cool to have and be good at.
Not everything a public educational institution does has to turn a profit.
August 15th, 2022 at 4:08 PM ^
because this stuff, right here, is why the freaking BTN dollars matter in the first place. dollars to fund intercollegiate sports OTHER than football and basketball. other than to fund another goddamned smile ambassador.
every day i come to this board and some tone-deaf nitwit inadvertently admits that he has lost track of why intercollegiate sports exist. you're today's winner.
August 15th, 2022 at 4:15 PM ^
This is what is wrong. Not everything should be about TV viewership. That is the world we live in where everything is judged by money.
How do you encourage young women to take up this sport when they are 10? This is how. You spend money up front to create a path for them to learn and thrive in the future. If there is a path to gain a scholarship, more girls will take up that sport. And the quality of the games will get better and better. By the way, I like the idea and I have no skin in the game.
August 15th, 2022 at 4:21 PM ^
2022 Women's Gold Medal Game is the second most watch hockey game in the US since 2019
https://justwomenssports.com/beijing-olympics-canada-usa-gold-medal-game-viewers/#:~:text=The%20gold%20medal%20hockey%20game,which%20Tampa%20Bay%20beat%20Montreal.
August 15th, 2022 at 6:35 PM ^
Is this Warde Manuel's burner account? Otherwise I don't know why you'd care about how the AD spends its money.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:13 PM ^
[popcorn.gif]
I have a daughter so I understand Ira's stance. With that, I understand your stance. I have been to 3 WNBA games, and they were so bad with regards to level of skill, excitement, etc. I'll assume the women's hockey games are equally as such.
But this is not about money, its about opportunity. And this type of opportunity does cost a lot of money, so I think we all need to back off a little when going to football and men's basketball games cost so much. These 2 sports alone help pay for things like women's hockey.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:33 PM ^
(3) Daughters myself.
WNBA we feel the same.
With new TV contract $ will be there and is there now. If $ is a non issue then why has it not been done already?
Lack of interest?
450 people a game for last years national champion seems extremely low interest.
August 15th, 2022 at 4:43 PM ^
wnba? i thought we were talking about college sports?
August 15th, 2022 at 4:58 PM ^
H2V, what else would you expect from Buckeye fans. My guess is - their hockey coaches follow the rules - and, candidly, their fan base prefers coaches who don’t. e,g, Tressel, Meijer, Day.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:35 PM ^
The WNBA gets about $15 million from the NBA and $25 million from ESPN. As you say, it's all about opportunity - and building to the future.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:47 PM ^
With regards to the WNBA, I think at this point there is really no future if making money is your metric. We are almost 30 years in, and I don't think it ever generated a profit. But I have no problem other organization propping them up to provide opportunity to some privileged and talented women.
August 15th, 2022 at 4:04 PM ^
I have been to 3 WNBA games, and they were so bad with regards to level of skill, excitement, etc.
rrrrrrrright.
August 15th, 2022 at 4:33 PM ^
Ha! Have you been to a WNBA game?
I have been to 2 Chicago Sky games (back around 2010-2011) and 1 Cleveland Rockers game. I believe the Rockers are now defunct.
I say this with as much kindness as possible, but men's college basketball is so much better to watch than the WNBA. I would say in the 3 WNBA games I've been to, the average attendance was around 1,000. So I'm not alone.
August 15th, 2022 at 5:28 PM ^
The average attendance for the Seattle Storm was over 10,000 last year.
August 15th, 2022 at 4:34 PM ^
Right? This is insane to me. I love the WNBA and would rather watch that than the NBA most of the time. Granted, this is partially due to having grown up in Cincinnati and not having an NBA team to root for.
I watched the Storm v Aces game yesterday and it was compelling right to the final minute. Good stuff.
What we like and dislike is obviously subjective and nothing exists that will please everyone, but there will always be a market of some kind for women's sports. Also, and I cannot stress this enough, more opportunity is never a bad thing.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:18 PM ^
Your rigorous analysis has me completely convinced.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:19 PM ^
Finance 101: you pointed out costs but didn’t include revenue. Based on the first link, a Michigan women’s ice hockey program should reasonably generate $1-2M in revenue. The 2nd link states that North Dakota’s mens and women’s ice hockey teams cost $1.9M each. Based on that math, a women’s ice hockey program doesn’t seem infeasible, and would not “always lose millions”.
https://www.si.com/nhl/2017/04/06/university-north-dakota-womens-hockey-cut
It’s always funny how it’s random joes on the internet who shit on women’s sports but male athletes who are the best in the profession like LeBron, Ronaldo, Tom Brady, etc have nothing but heaping praise for women’s sports & athletes. It reads like Reddit incel behavior, keep it off Mgoblog please
August 15th, 2022 at 3:19 PM ^
We can add women's hockey if we want to. We are about to get a billion dollar tv contract from Fox, CBS, and NBC. It's a sport, Michigan would absolutely dominate.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:28 PM ^
$3 million
For our perspective the UM endowment is well over $10 billion. Granted that's endowments, but FFS, $3 million is change under the couch cushions for UM.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:35 PM ^
That stupid marquee on Stadium Blvd costed $3M. The current scoreboards in the big house costed $20M in 2011. The new ones will be $44M. The Big House renovations in 2008-2010 $226M. Schembechler Hall renovation in 2014 $9M. Football weight room $21M. $168M performance center. $3M is fucking peanuts. I also don’t think it actually costs $3M. You’re already paying for Yost & training facilities for the men’s team, it’s not like you’re starting from scratch.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:59 PM ^
Interesting. I agree with you and just had this conversation with my Michigan friends this weekend. Our conversation revolved around: what has the football program "over-payed" on just to keep up with the Jones?
It was a mixed bag, but we mostly agree that the marquee and luxury boxes is overdoing it. On the other hand, we thought any direct investment into the football players (i.e. weight room, etc.) was warranted.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:29 PM ^
I regret that I have only one -1 to give you.
If the university can pay for it with their billions in endowments, I don't see why you should care. You can always, you know, not watch it.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:35 PM ^
Women's collegiate ice hockey isn't overly exciting to me. Yes, I agree.
That said, (1) there are A LOT of young women who do play the sport in Michigan (just among my friends, they have 4 daughters of age 10+ that play ice hockey), (2) Michigan sponsors a whole lot of other sports, including those played by far less Michiganders (I mean, Water Polo?!?!? Field Hockey?), and (3) Michigan has the $$$ to be able to support women's ice hockey.
So, I think the school should sponsor it. OSU, Wisconsin and PSU, who are all "athletic and geographical peers of a sort" as regards Michigan, sponsor the sport. So why not Michigan?
August 15th, 2022 at 3:38 PM ^
Sigh.
August 15th, 2022 at 3:38 PM ^
One of the worst things about policy surrounding modern education is that all too often it is boiled down to a monetary ROI analysis. Any university that wants to have its stated goals about quality education and the development of young people taken seriously cannot make decisions based solely on what its programs do for the bottom line. The college experience, which certainly includes athletics, is so much more than being trained to get a job; otherwise, college degrees would just be (mostly white-collar) apprenticeships. I'm sorry you view things through such a narrow lens. Should we disband the solar car team because it doesn't have a positive return?
August 15th, 2022 at 3:44 PM ^
Leaders and Best! That's why! End of discussion
August 15th, 2022 at 3:47 PM ^
Using OSU is a poor example. Ohio is not a strong hockey state with a large following. Michigan is somewhere between Ohio and Wisconsin/Minnesota in terms of the number of hockey fans.
Given the large number of women/girls who play hockey in Michigan there is a significant potential fan base present. IF you build a winning program, the fans will come (e.g., softball and basketball).