OT: Michigan Executive Orders declared unconstitutional
Late last week, the Michigan Supreme Court declared that the Governor did not possess the authority to exercise emergency powers under the EPGA (1945 law) because the act unlawfully delegates legislative power to the executive branch in violation of the Michigan Constitution. Whitmer has said the EOs are in effect for 21 more days (referencing a rehearing rule that postpones issuance of the judgment order for 21 days), but that's probably not an accurate take given that the opinion has been filed and there's no way to enforce the EOs.
Curious to know if anyone's company is going to change the way they operate now? Anyone going to do anything differently? Company I work for is going to keep the status quo for the time being.
October 5th, 2020 at 1:28 PM ^
The Rose Garden isn’t a store.
October 5th, 2020 at 2:44 PM ^
You'll have then when you actively are showing that you don't give a shit about the health of people around you because you're a selfish douchebag.
October 5th, 2020 at 8:51 PM ^
Or has a brain and doesn’t mindlessly accept mass media headlines.
Look up people like Dr Simone Gold. They are getting discarded and discredited for simply standing up and sharing their insights - which don’t fit the carefully constructed narrative.
we are being primed to hate and fear each other. No one seems to see the bigger picture of what’s really going on in this country.
October 6th, 2020 at 3:12 AM ^
Yeah believe the moron that retweets racists like Mike Huckabee and joins a group including a doctor that thinks sex demons are coming to get you.
Tell me something. Do you still believe hydroxychloroquine is a legitimate treatment for COVID even though the orange doofus and his merry band of assholes didn't take a single dose of it when the chips were down after they tested positive?
https://www.centinelamed.com/news/2020/july/statement-re-simone-gold-md/
Boy she is such a good source to go to that a university hospital she claimed to be employed by had to come out and say she doesn't work there.
I'll hang up and listen to more winners from you.
Oh and this: https://www.providence.org/news/uf/626791490
October 6th, 2020 at 4:25 AM ^
Claims that masks work aren't just coming from "mass media headlines." They're coming from scientists who actively research things like mask efficacy. The reason masks work is painfully easy to understand if you even show the tiniest amount of intellectual curiosity and read some of the research. Of course, you can feel free to "mindlessly accept" dumb bullshit from cranks.
October 6th, 2020 at 8:07 AM ^
Your cult leader is the one leading that charge of hate and division.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:09 AM ^
There are 3 branches of Government.
I've honestly never been a big fan of Executive Orders, at either the Federal or State level. Checks and balances, and all.
FWIW -- when it comes to Federal National Emergencies, 11 of the 13 first issued by George W Bush and 10 of the 12 first issued by Barack Obama STILL remain in effect. Those sort of things can effectively become "law" over time.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:50 AM ^
Assuming it's a reasonable resource:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_in_the_United_States
Notice that most are in the category of sanctions.
October 5th, 2020 at 12:38 PM ^
I generally agree, though in Michigan's case the state legislature (due to extreme gerrymandering) doesn't really represent the actual voting preferences of the citizens.
October 5th, 2020 at 1:54 PM ^
And checks and balances comes in here again.
Regardless of how the districts were drawn (the Federal Court in Cincinnati said they needed to be redrawn because of gerrymandering, the US Supreme Court declined to get involved), they are the districts. That is the current Michigan Legislature that is a counterpart to the current Michigan Executive.
Of course, Michigan voters themselves took some power in November 2018 when they decided to amend the Constitution and prevent MI Legislators from drawing the districts in future years.
Executive, Legislative, Judicial, the voters. None should be allowed to run rampant over any of the others.
October 5th, 2020 at 2:55 PM ^
Sure, but when one of the branches purposely ignores the wishes of the voters for years (these districts were drawn in 2010 and people have been voting differently that what is represented in the legislature for 10 years), that shouldn't be waved aside with "they are the districts". The actual "check" in this case - the voters - wasn't acknowledged until multiple court cases were battled out for most of the decade to, at best, return the state to something resembling a representative democracy they thought they had.
October 5th, 2020 at 4:36 PM ^
Sure, but when one of the branches purposely ignores the wishes of the voters for years (these districts were drawn in 2010 and people have been voting differently that what is represented in the legislature for 10 years), that shouldn't be waved aside with "they are the districts".
Serious question, aren't the districts only re-drawn every 10 years after the US Census?
Or; are you saying that the 2010 districts didn't actually inform voting in MI until recently? In any case, do they now? (I tried to look this up a bit; but as a PA resident I do confess my ignorance on this topic.)
October 5th, 2020 at 5:32 PM ^
Checks and balances aren't necessarily immediate. The districts have existed for awhile, yes. As has Governor Whitmer's executive orders, although the Judicial Branch has ruled she over-stepped.
October 6th, 2020 at 12:43 PM ^
Voters should not be allowed to "run rampant" over elected officials? Umm... no.
October 5th, 2020 at 1:50 PM ^
This doesn't have to affect your view of EOs, but I'd like to point out the checks and balance thing was in effect here.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:09 AM ^
Worth noting that county health commissioners still have the capability to enforce public health mandates, including mask mandates, within their county. Additionally, most businesses still have the capability to set restrictions on who they admit, and what the dress code is for those admitted.
It's entirely possible, if you're someone who thinks that they don't need to wear a mask any more, that you do.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:20 AM ^
A good friend of mine is an attorney in Michigan. She wrote yesterday that she thinks there will be follow-on challenges to these county-level orders on the same basis that struck down Whitmer's orders at the state level. I'm not a lawyer, so it's above my head. But if true, then it will be up to individual businesses whether to require them for entry.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:38 AM ^
Something similar happened in Wisconsin. After the Wisconsin Supreme Court invalidated Governor Evers' shutdown orders, many counties concluded that they did not have the authority to enact or enforce county-level closures.
October 5th, 2020 at 12:08 PM ^
Contrast that with the state of GA and the fight Gov Kemp took to try to force the city of Atlanta to be LESS restrictive on mask/distancing rules. Kemp eventually relented and the city of Atlanta kept its more restrictive orders in place.
October 5th, 2020 at 1:41 PM ^
Or maybe the system will work the way it is supposed to work, and the governor and legislature will discuss various regulations and decide together which are appropriate and which are overreach? It’s all great fun when the executive (state or federal) shares your political thinking and implements it by fiat, but it sucks when the executive doesn’t share your political viewpoint, and still implements rules by fiat. Checks and balances.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:23 AM ^
I've already seen a couple businesses near me say that masks are still going to be required for entry. (Thankfully.)
October 5th, 2020 at 11:41 AM ^
Exactly,
And I plan to go to only those that require masks. It is a race to the bottom for any no-mask business.
They will attract those that are not careful about COVID, and they are the most likely population to have higher rates of COVID, and the non-maskers at those establishments will therefore get COVID at much higher rates than the general pop.
October 5th, 2020 at 1:13 PM ^
Oakland County already issued a mask order and it's stricter than the state level one. Basically if you leave the house put a fucking mask on.
Although I voted for him, I'm glad Patterson isn't around anymore. No way he would have issued a mask order. You couldn't pay him to stay out of the bar.
October 5th, 2020 at 1:55 PM ^
In fact, Oakland County literally paid him while in the bar, often.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:11 AM ^
We need to keep everything shut until we attain immortality.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:24 AM ^
patrick, for a second i read that as 'immorality' and i thought, we can open right now!!
October 5th, 2020 at 1:21 PM ^
I have a plan for immortality - so far it is working out great!
October 5th, 2020 at 11:11 AM ^
Illegal orders and Mondays always get me down.
October 5th, 2020 at 12:08 PM ^
And when your political opponents survive assassination attempts. Allegedly. Theoretically. And falling on your face in front of thousands of people. That's what I've heard, anyway. 
October 5th, 2020 at 12:16 PM ^
Oh man, someone probably got killed for that. Poor rug guy...
October 5th, 2020 at 12:25 PM ^
via poisoning no less.
October 5th, 2020 at 2:24 PM ^
Defenestration.
Allegedly.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:14 AM ^
I cannot wait until Michigan vs Minnesota. That is all.
October 5th, 2020 at 12:00 PM ^
Hey! Our Supreme Court hasn't overturned the Governors orders yet! Keep your legal issues in your own state!
s/
October 5th, 2020 at 11:15 AM ^
Gee I wonder what the makeup of Michigan's Supreme Court is. Oh really? No way!
October 5th, 2020 at 11:25 AM ^
The ruling striking down her EOs post-April 29 was unanimous (7-0). That wasn't partisan. The ruling that found the law under which she could usurp legislative oversight was 4-3 (Republican-nominated justices in favor). There is an argument that there is a political motive. But none of us should ever want to enable an executive branch to unshackle itself from checks and balances, regardless of party affiliation (see also: the present circumstances in D.C.).
October 5th, 2020 at 11:32 AM ^
Hypothetical - It's 2030 and Donald Trump Jr is somehow the Governor of Michigan. Another emergency arises. Would you want him to have the same types of power that Whitmer says she has? Be careful what you wish for.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:38 AM ^
To be clear, I don't care if it's Donald Trump Jr., or Sasha Obama. No executive should get carte blanche powers.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:44 AM ^
Oh I agree with you...I was replying to dcmaizeandblue
October 5th, 2020 at 1:21 PM ^
100% agree. Now, if only, California would apply some checks and balances.
October 5th, 2020 at 5:22 PM ^
Everyone was fine with the 1945 law for 75 years. It survived review with the new constitution in 1963. It was amended in 2006 (almost yesterday) only to take away the power to confiscate guns in an emergency. In 2012, the people voted to repeal the Emergency Manager law, and the legislature passed a new EM law within weeks.
This is not about any principle, it's about party and gender. If there is an emergency with a GOP gov and legislature they would pass in a new EPGA in seconds.
October 6th, 2020 at 8:11 AM ^
Yeah, somehow I think the Michigan Legislature would've been just fine with the law were it Bill Schuette using it as a basis to enact executive orders.
October 5th, 2020 at 2:02 PM ^
There really was no resistance to the 7-0 decision. That is why she enacted policy using the 1945 law. It was the basis for the initial case but really no one was even trying to prevent that decision.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:28 AM ^
I noticed they are accomplished and respected justices as well.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:20 AM ^
It's OK, though, because the virus isn't real and no-one importa...
Oh.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:23 AM ^
You forgot, "IT'S ALL CHINA'S FAULT. They should have never let it out."
October 5th, 2020 at 11:22 AM ^
We're not changing policy from how we have it now, then again I work in healthcare and we're smart enough to know that the EOs that were put in place were smart and done from a scientific perspective.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:22 AM ^
staying away from politics as best as possible here:
first, michigan court rule 7.315 provides that opinions and orders from the supreme court are immediately effective, there is no 21 day grace period.
second, the attorney general of our state has stated she/her office won't be enforcing any E.O.'s
third, i hope folks are still careful around vulnerable people. fwiw, i am running my office that way
October 5th, 2020 at 11:31 AM ^
In this particular case, the Michigan Supreme Court ruling was made as a result of a certified question from the U.S. District Court arising from a case before it. There may be some legal distinction that makes it therefore different than an appellate case heard before the court.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:57 AM ^
How do you identify vulnerable people?