OT: MGoGUN discussion: What's your favorite hand gun/semi auto pistol/rifle??
Long story short, I moved to a place where there have been recent break-ins. I ended up purchasing a Beretta Storm PX4 full sized chambered in 9MM (de-cocker and safety combo). I'll learn how to use it and then think about adding a shotgun later.
Two questions:
1. Anyone have experience with this pistol? What do you like and dislike about it?
2. If you don't own a PX4, what do you own/swear by?
3. What do you use to clean and lube your guns?
And to tie in some football-related material, I can't wait to see Shea in the Pistol!
I recommend two safes. One for guns and one for ammo. If it's going to be in your room, get a biometric pistol safe with key backup. I done leave the magazine in the gun, just in the pistol safe with it.
Also, all the sheriff's offices around here have free gun locks. If you aren't going to use a safe and have kids around, use it.
There's a fine line between securing your firearms and being so redundant that you can't get to the gun when you actually need it. A second safe for ammo buys you very little as does not having the mag at least in the gun in terms of security and greatly slows you down.
Most underrated comment in this thread. After having your setup secured, practice getting to it and being ready to use it from everywhere in your house, while simulating duress. You will be amazed how long it actually takes you. Not "you" but anyone reading this thread. No locks and other security measures can keep someone out forever. They need to give you enough time to get prepared. But when you don't have time, the loaded mag needs to be in gun already at minimum. I recommend one in chamber as well. You secure your weapon to protect others from it, and secure property to give you time to get it. Simplest answer is to train for CC and be comfortable with it locked and loaded on hip at all times except when sleeping. It's the safest by far and you only have to get it from your hip.
Very well stated but I see a flaw, #5, see #1 . most people do not get enough range time. Hell most cops don't get enough range time. It becomes real easy to shoot a stationary target at 7-15 yards with some range time but once adrenalin, darkness, sleepiness come into play chances are you will never get a shot of if you have not trained a whole shit ton in more than a static situation.
Looking forward to Shea having an even better year as well as receivers. Speed in space baby!!
1: No, but it’s a nice gun.
2: Glock 40
3: Molten goose grease
I personally prefer my laser gun from Star Wars. Don't worry, I shoot better than stormtroopers.
Thread title made me laugh out loud btw.
1. I love the Desert Eagle. great one shot kills in counter strike but hard recoil.
2. no but i have double wielded Beretta 92G Elite IIs in counter strike.
3. with the blood of my opponents.
All just tools in the toolbox. If you know what I mean. If you don't, you don't.
My favorite gun to shoot is my .380 Glock 42. Feels like nothing, but this will be a very unpopular opinion.
I wish I could get my Remington 11-48 to eject target shells for clays. If it could do that, it'd be my favorite (although not a handgun).
I really started to enjoy firearms after growing up in a family without any. Dad was a long time military officer, but totally got rid of firearms once I was born. I enjoy learning their functionality and tinkering I guess like some people do with old cars. However, it's much less expensive.
I'll probably rethink firearms etc... once I have children.
Favorites: S&W 9mm for fall and winter carry. For summer the M&P Shield 2.0 with Crimson Trace laser, also my go to for quick trips to the store. For home defense I use the same two guns and have a high intensity flashlight, it’s surprising how valuable that can be. Also have a S&W AR but the safe I keep it in would make it unusable for most home defense situations while both pistols are able to be quickly accessed in their safe by the bed.
One of the best things that ever happened to me is discovering Bill Burr. I finally found a face behind the personality that's been in my head my whole life.
Stand-Up Version is the one I prefer though:
That is actually really funny.
Bill Burr is one of my favorites
I have a BCM Recce 16 with the Vortex Crossfire II 1-4x red dot scope. It's tons of fun to shoot but I don't use it very often.
I also have a Winchester XPR 30-06 which is also a lot of fun to shoot but it gets used even less as I don't have access to hundreds of yards of open land suitable for long range target practice.
Both usually get used the most around the holidays when family is in town and then men go to blow stuff up.
1) never shot or handled that pistol.
2) Kahr CW9 compact for concealment. I have shot four or five thousand rounds and never had a jam, miss-feed, or stove pipe. It fits perfectly in my hand and I love it.
5.56 - love this rifle. Great for range and putting down coyotes.
WWII M1-Garand - both grandfathers carried the M1 in WWII.
3) Hoppes Elite gun cleaner and oil. I also recommend getting a BCRE snake for cleaning the barrel. They work fabulous!
I agree with all of A_Maized points. Get as much training as you can. Get a membership to your local range. Train anyone who lives in your house on gun safety, care, and use. You can never have enough training and experience.
Too many crazies out there not to have a gun in your house.
Username checks out.
That's what all the crazies think.
None. Nope. Nada.
Captain Crunch: I don't personally claim to be an expert on this, but colleagues of mine who live in sketchy neighborhoods seem to prefer shotguns over pistols for home defense. I'm sure that would make a lively debate.
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Not directed at the OP and (as it's an Onion piece) hopefully something many could enjoy:
https://local.theonion.com/homoerotic-overtones-enliven-nra-meeting-1819564201
It's bad to be gay was so I don't even know, 70's?
If we are doing Onion and weapons lets at least pick on someone we can all laugh at.
https://www.theonion.com/osha-special-ops-team-raids-local-office-after-receivin-1835903686
Nothing like a 12 gauge for home defense. Bennelli M4 with ghost ring sights; surefire scout mounted light.
Doesn't answer any of your questions..but growing up we owned a Thompson/Center Arms Contender with the 45 colt/410 interchangeable barrels..great gun for grouse and scouting deer spots in the late summer, early fall. Wish I knew how to upload a picture...beautiful gun.
I’m a retired Michigan State Trooper. My advice is never buy a handgun until you have training and learn how to handle several different handguns. Then choose the one that fits you best. Training is your best friend. Learn to shoot two handed combat, which is pretty basic at most ranges. Did I mention that training is your best friend? Dry fire and change magazines constantly so you become familiar with your weapon and there is no hesitation when reloading. Personal Defense rounds are popular but make sure you can handle them. They are hot. Plain 9mm police type rounds are sufficient. Learn how to clean and clear jams. You Tube has plenty on these issues. There are many good cleaning agents. Just never ever ever use a penetrating oil like WD40. This oil will penetrate into your ammo and deaden the powder. Never let anyone in your house know where you keep your weapon unless you want them to know where it’s at so they can get to it. I don’t lock my gun in a safe or have a trigger lock on it because when you need it quick you will fumble the ball fooling with locks. All my other guns are in a safe. I have a fake book to keep my gun in. Locked and loaded. This book looks like a book but actually is void of pages. I hide that in my closet with the gun inside with an extra magazine. No one in my house knows where it’s at and what’s in it. Know the law. You can only use that force necessary to stop the threat. You cannot shoot an unarmed person unless you can prove your life is being threatened. Just because someone is in your house doesn’t mean your life is threatened. You and many on here can disagree all you want about this but the law in Michigan is very clear. Way too many circumstances to discuss here. Did I mention that training is your best friend? Good luck and enjoy shooting. My favorite handgun is a Sig Sauer P-226. Cadillac of handguns with over 15000 rounds shot and never a misfire.
Good points. I’m curios If you have kids? I have two and went the route of them knowing I have guns and where I keep them. Also knowing the consequences of ever attempting to touch one of them/try to get into either of the safes. I considered hiding one in a manner similar to how you do. I went with the safe because kids snoop and I didn’t want them to have any chance at all of finding it and then possibly playing with it. The safe I use has grooves for the finger and I’ve practiced unlocking it in the dark with the simple code, over and over. I’ve only unlocked it once with the adrenaline flowing and I was able to do it quickly. I also live in a very low crime neighborhood so there is a very small likelihood of a home invasion. There isn’t a right or wrong way, there are many factors to consider.
Does Michigan not have a castle doctrine? I thought People v Wafer, as complicated as it is, allows lethal force if someone who is not authorized, and not a cop or relative, is in the process of breaking into your house or commuting a home invasion. Ohio also extends the castle doctrine to your car, is that the same in Michigan?
Horrible story from an actual situation near where I live. A guy with a machete goes into a restaurant and starts hacking customers, it was an ugly and bloody scene. Two CCW holders where present and armed but took no action because they had a duty to retreat and were able to walk out the back. These situations happen quickly and your actions will be evaluated over and over, you have to be right 100% or the time and even then you will need a good lawyer.
Not saying those CCW holders were wrong, but you absolutely are justified to use lethal force in that situation in defense of someone else's life. They themselves might have had an option to retreat but if the other victims didn't then lethal force would be 100% justified.
Until the last executive session a few months ago (and after this incident) i. OH you had a duty to retreat and you had to prove it was self defense. The has been corrected and the burden for proving it was not self defense now falls on the prosecution. You are correct, but the political climate under the previous statute had a chilling effect. Hopefully none of us will ever be in a situation where we need to make that decision.
"Duty to retreat" isn't the boogeyman people make it out to be. All it means is that you need to have a reasonable fear for loss of life or grave bodily injury for yourself or someone else AND that you have no reasonable alternative to prevent that loss of life other than lethal force. That's really not a high bar to clear legally, and outside your own house, perfectly reasonable.
Not making duty to retreat a boogeyman, I’m not sure where that came from.
My kids are grown. Just my wife and I now. But even when my kids were home all my guns were in a safe and that’s what they knew. But I had one weapon hidden and I was the only one who knew where it was at. My safe is huge and is in the basement. Can’t run by the intruder to get a gun at night. So in my closet was a concealed area for a hidden gun. Like I said, I was the only one who knew this place existed. I never talked about it and never brought it out. Fortunately I never had to get it out. I cleaned it when everyone was out.
Thanks GBP, it’s good to hear how different home situations are handled as everyone has to make their own choice on what’s best for them to manage self protection. When my kids are grown I, like you, will also not use a safe when I’m home, I will still lock them up when cleaners or contractors are present.
With my kids, I’ve found that them knowing I have them, allowing them to shoot them under my supervision after teaching them safety protocols, has drastically reduced their curiosity. Removing the unknown and letting them experience the explosion, recoil and seeing the damage a bullet creates seems have given them respect for the lethality of a firearm Then again my daughter is anti gun recently and doesn’t think I should have them and my son would rather shoot guns on Call of Duty ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
JFC, “good luck and enjoy shooting” sounds like a joke after talking about how he needs to prepare for war. Know the laws was good advice at least.
Just don’t get a gun OP, statistically (and it’s really not even close) it’s the best thing you can do for your safety.
Just don’t get a gun OP
User name checks out.
Lol, that's fair. I grew up with guns and hunting on a farm in Michigan. The numbers don't lie, so I stand by what I said.
There's a difference in statistics that are basically random chance like winning the lottery and statistics of something that's a controllable behavior like drunk driving where the numbers are because a percentage of people act idiotically and irresponsibly.
The stat you quote is inflated by people that don't secure their guns, don't follow basic safety rules, and don't know how their gun works. OP seems like he's taking that stuff seriously and there's lots of good advice in this thread too help him with that. That statistic is also inflated by suicides, sadly.
I didn't realize Michigan wasn't a Castle Doctrine state, that sucks. So someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night and you have to ask them if they're armed or intend to do you harm before you can act?
PA has a clear "stand your ground" law.
Don't think that's correct. Michigan does have a castle doctrine law.
I just looked it up, there is a Castle Doctrine law in MI, but it is written as stated above....
Sec. 2. (1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies:
(a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual.
(b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual.
(2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.
That's not the correct part. All that is for outside your house.
This is the criteria for inside your home:
1) Except as provided in subsection (2), it is a rebuttable presumption in a civil or criminal case that an individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under section 2 of the self-defense act has an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death of, sexual assault of, or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another individual will occur if both of the following apply:
(a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is in the process of breaking and entering a dwelling or business premises or committing home invasion or has broken and entered a dwelling or business premises or committed home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or business premises, or is unlawfully attempting to remove another individual from a dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle against his or her will.
(b) The individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force honestly and reasonably believes that the individual is engaging in conduct described in subdivision (a).
In other words if someone breaks into your house and you use deadly force, the presumption is that you acted in accordance with the parts you quoted, unless the prosecution can show otherwise.
Then there's a bunch of caveats in Sec 2.
Text is here: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(4rkspr4wtbs4e54dmwmq0bhf))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-780-951
Michigan is a stand your ground State. But you can only use that force necessary to stop a threat. You don’t have to retreat but you cannot shoot an intruder just for being an intruder. Your life has to be in danger before you can use lethal force. If you shoot someone you better be able to prove you were in severe danger.
Oooooo...guns, guns, guns!
I like Football, pistol, shotgun I like it all
I don’t own a handgun because those things worry me but I do own a 12ga for home defense, I’m much more comfortable with that. First line of defense is my Giant Schnauzer, no one comes onto my property without him alerting me. If he’s barking in the middle of the night there’s good reason to secure the 12ga!
Is the Schnauzer German made? single or double stack magazine? what are the caliber options?
Don't use it to get a frisbee off the roof, open a beer, turn on and off the tv, or turn on and off the lights
What is the point of owning it, then? Decorative conversation piece?