OT: If you were a graduating college kid, which city/state/region would you choose?
To begin your career. We have a daughter graduating in a few weeks and she's moving to Seattle. Not at the advice of us or really even her plan, it's just randomly where her internship last summer happened to be and they made her a full time offer back in August. She really liked Seattle, so that's where she'd headed. Our youngest daughter is starting college this fall in Ann Arbor. If you have kids, are you advising them to head to certain places you think are positioned to prosper and/or if you could do it all over again and were a graduating college kid next month, where would you go?
March 13th, 2022 at 10:13 AM ^
Depends on what your career is. I think it is good to live in a big city for a couple of years after college. Seattle or SIlicon Valley are great for tech. NY or LA for entertainment, etc. If you’re a teacher, doctor or accountant I’d prefer to live near family. Otherwise pick ski hills or warm weather.
I finally moved to metro Denver a few years ago at 33, primarily to ski. Love it here. Would love it even more if I were ten years younger and lived closer to downtown but that’s life.
Seattle and SV are tech hubs, but they aren't the best by any means. Tech hubs that I'd go toward are"
Dallas
Austin
Orlando
Atlanta
Dallas and Austin are just exploding. Probably the highest growth areas for tech in the nation. Orlando is fast becoming a competitor to the two above.
Atlanta is great because so many massive companies are headquartered here. It's a massive city that's growing like crazy and has a massive breadth of industries that require Tech.
You're pretty much suggesting that Orlando is better, somehow, as a tech hub than Seattle or SV. I'd like to see the criteria.
Cost of living / ability to afford a house could be two of the criteria.
Orlando is no where near an upper level tech hub… even fast growing Texas hubs fails to approach San Fra, Boston, or Seattle… there maybe industries where they carry weight, but network effects strongly attest to the overall status of these elite hubs
Living in Texas, Florida, or Georgia?
March 13th, 2022 at 10:16 AM ^
I remember hearing an adage a long time ago, along the lines of: You should live in San Francisco and NYC each when you're young, then graduate to a place like Chicago or Atlanta to raise a family. The big expensive cities are great when you don't yet have expensive tastes or needs. Seattle feels more like a place to settle down. I regret not spending more time in NYC when I was young (I was in LA).
March 13th, 2022 at 11:38 AM ^
Seattle is expensive now too
damn near everywhere is expensive as of late. we get at least one or two unsolicited cash offers every week for our home...some from brokers some cold calls from primary buyers trying to move to area. crazy what people will consider throwing at homes interior unseen as of late. tempting for sure given the numbers being thrown around, but having to be a buyer after would stink in the current market. example our previous home we built in late 2000 for 170k, that we then sold in 2009, sold again last spring for 375k. it was a nice starter home but i cant imagine that i would consider paying that much for a modest vinyl siding tract home. times have changed. even untillable hunting land that a decade ago would be 300-400 an acre now listing often 2-4k an acre with most quickly under contract...amazing.
Plus the crime rate has gone way up since the defund the police movement picked up steam.
/Please, not trying to get political or start a flame war here, just some facts that have been published in the WSJ recently - https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-cities-surge-in-shootings-rattles-once-safe-seattle-11646589942?mod=Searchresults_pos2&page=1
March 13th, 2022 at 11:16 PM ^
Of course WSJ has no political agenda, and nobody has defunded police
I recently moved my family out of Seattle area after living there for 20 years. I liked it a lot for about 17 of those years, but felt that they really put the "how to ruin a city" playbook into overdrive the past several years.
March 13th, 2022 at 12:50 PM ^
Agree. I’d move to the Bay Area out of college especially if you’re in tech, finance, or even the sciences. Stick it out until kids then move somewhere else.
I had a great 15 years in CA. Tons of fun but wouldn’t want my kids growing up in the Silicon Valley environment.
I have friends in Seattle (1 kid) who raised their son there. They've gone through 3 groups of friends over the past ~25 years because people keep moving out when they have kids or their kids reach a certain age.
I’ve lived in San Francisco for 10 years and would not love here. I guess right out of college (though I prefer New York). You do t have to be here anymore to be in tech and I would not consider it a fun young city and it is so darn expensive.
March 13th, 2022 at 11:21 PM ^
I lived in SF for about 5 years before having to move to Sacramento for a job. My biggest rush in life was being able to move back to the Bay Area. After living in the burbs for about 10 years I came to the conclusion I was too far out to move back but I'm glad for the years there and my ability to still live in the area, which was already hopelessly expensive when I moved out here almost 40 years ago. Move to a place you want to live because that's where you are going to be stuck.
March 13th, 2022 at 10:29 AM ^
I think this is a lot like a decision we just made: Where to retire?
We built a spreadsheet that had 51 rows (all states and DC) and the following columns:
- Red or Blue (sure, city-by-city it varies, but the overall theme is present)
- Weather (do you like cold? Hot can be just as miserable)
- Bikeability/Public Transport (are you going to be able to get around easily?)
- Cost of Living (after you pay for your dwelling, can you afford anything else?)
- Proximity to Other Stuff (Nashville is not close to any other major cities: 4+ hours)
- International Airport: (If you are going to travel, you don't want a million connections)
Jobs are plentiful, currently. If you are going into a specific field, Naval Architecture, say, it will dictate where you live. If not, you have a ton of options.
March 13th, 2022 at 11:42 AM ^
I’d buy you spreadsheet.
March 13th, 2022 at 11:51 AM ^
...and you retired in....? Can't leave people hanging like that.
March 13th, 2022 at 12:22 PM ^
Seriously. We need closure on that anecdote!
Still have time to go, simply because retiring at 42 leaves you too much time to get bored. We chose Minneapolis and expect to travel from November-May every year.
Nice job retiring at 42 (or semi-retiring). I saw the Michigan-MN hockey game in MN in January. Good decision traveling in the winter months. Very very cold.
Thank you for the closure.
I semi retired last year (I still consult a few hours a week) at 36. My spreadsheet looked a lot different when we moved out of the city last year because of our 18month old. It was basically are the schools good and how’s the weather/proximity to major airport.
I would love to see that spreadsheet.
That could be a great diary entry on the site
Ditto, would love to see this spreadsheet or at least the top 10 candidates! and curious to see where you picked
Did any of those rows include places outside the US?
Not as a primary. We plan to spend the winters abroad and still maintain a residence in the US for stability reasons. Yes, you can get Social Security if you live abroad, as long as you retain your US citizenship, but banking, etc. can get dicey in less established countries.
March 13th, 2022 at 10:32 AM ^
Ottawa.
March 13th, 2022 at 10:39 AM ^
Michigan.
Low risk of extreme weather/natural disasters.
Low COL relative to pay (for teachers we're probably the best state in the US).
Shortest commute to home games.
March 13th, 2022 at 12:10 PM ^
And plentiful fresh water. Water will soon become the new oil and we own most of the wells.
March 13th, 2022 at 12:13 PM ^
Flint says, "hi."
March 13th, 2022 at 12:30 PM ^
Flint's water has been up to code for several years now. There are several places with much worse water in Michigan including Ann Arbor (thanks to Gellman and outdated infrastructure). That doesn't erase the damage done to the people who live there that Snyder/Earley exposed to high levels of lead to save on $50,000 of phosphate treatment.
Yes, there was mamouth and well-funded campaign to replace pipes. 10,000 have been replaced. I suspect Flint's infrastructure is newer and better than the vast majority of communities around the country.
I've been saying this literally for the past 60 years, and it will be even truer over the next 60 years. Upper Midwest has all the water as the West and Southwest go dry, and Florida's groundwater is getting salinated.
BTW I have both municipal water and my own well. Practice what you preach.
The low risk of extreme weather is kinda balanced but chronic poor weather..: winter damage and worse is comparable to acute extreme weather
March 13th, 2022 at 10:42 AM ^
Boone
Daughter heading to App State in the Fall. NC is an AMAZING state to live in. Only major glaring bummer is it pays Teachers crap for wages. Literal poop in a bag.
Valid points. Having said that, not sure urban teachers deserve what they make for the most part. I am sure there are some, but the educational system in this country has been an epic fail for the past 25 years
You get what you pay for. Agreed with educational system failure though.
One of my former teachers who used to print off study materials online and then go online shopping the entire class and taught NOTHING is now the curriculum leader of the district...that is who should be paid like shit, not the hard working ones who actually taught me something
(whispers) teachers aren't the problem. look up California education funding pre-and post-prop 13 and you'll understand.
I moved down to NC (Charlotte area) this past September, and the wife and I love it so far. There’s a ton to do year round between parks, zoos, mountains, the ocean, breweries, malls, restaurants, semi-pro/pro sports.
Lake Wylie is just down the road
Other than App State, Boone is a bit weird. Look up the history of TM related cult groups.
March 13th, 2022 at 10:46 AM ^
A major metro area with talented and smart workers is where I would go. Be around the best to learn and perfect your craft.
Smaller towns (and this includes some decent size cities) have more limited talent that would all be canned if they had to work in a New York or Chicago.
Iron sharpens iron.
March 13th, 2022 at 12:31 PM ^
lol...what a bad take...typical coastal elitist thinking
March 13th, 2022 at 12:46 PM ^
Stating there are more opportunities and more talent in say Seattle or New York as opposed to Grand Rapids is just fact. And I live in the heart of Midwest by the way.