OT: Freep A1: Mel Tucker is all over the place and Michigan State football's direction is unclear
This is a stunning indictment of Mel Tucker and the state of State’s football program. Only about 85 million bucks and nine seasons left on his guaranteed contract.
August 28th, 2023 at 9:56 AM ^
The real collapse will be when d'antonio qb recruits are out of program, because he knew qbs, considering Cousens, Cook, Thorne. Not sure if Kim was a Dantonio recruit.
August 28th, 2023 at 10:35 AM ^
Kim was a dantonio recruit but you know Mel will now live and die by houser bc it’s his guy
August 28th, 2023 at 9:58 AM ^
This is just a hit piece on the guy. I have no sympathy for anything related to that program, but this is a lot of whining. Coach speak is a thing for a reason. Also, though its a pile of garbage, its a job at a program with lots of money and previous successes were solid in the prior 10 years.
They are a floundering mess but I have challenges seeing how this brings anything new to light.
Also, f them. beat them by 90
August 28th, 2023 at 9:58 AM ^
He managed to run off their starting QB and their #1 WR. He should be extended for another 10 years.
August 28th, 2023 at 10:06 AM ^
Nah he's great. Worth every penny. Last year was just a blip. Typical Blue Wall nonsense. Keep choppin' in the woodshed Tuck Comin' Dawg4life insertlamecatchphrase.
August 28th, 2023 at 10:08 AM ^
Warning: this article was written by Ranier Sabin, and Ranier Sabin wants you to click on the link. Resist the temptation, please.
August 28th, 2023 at 10:10 AM ^
I mean when it comes to college football at any large university, money isn't real. They'll buy him out of 70 million if they want to. They'll get donors and take debt just knowing that they'll get more money on the next TV contract. The only thing that will stop the cycle is if people stop watching, stop going to games, stop buying stuff. But then you get a whole 'support the troops' reaction anytime the possibility of a boycott comes up.
August 28th, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^
I agree to an extent about money not being as big as factor but it does matter. Auburn I think just stopped paying the buyout for Gus Malzahn and are just now paying the buyout for Harsin plus the new Hugh Freeze salary, who was absolutely not their first choice. And Auburn REALLY cares about football and has crazy boosters but there's an upper limit to how much anyone wants to pay to clean up mistakes, and doubly so at a place like MSU where football is second class and the ceiling is, realistically, 11-2 and a Peach Bowl game. My guess is if Tucker ever does get fired he won't be replaced by another expensive hire but instead they'll try to do a turnaround with a cheap MAC or Sun Belt coach, or maybe a coordinator from a nearby school who isn't going to cost you as much. And that's a decision at least born in part from knowing there's a finite amount of money you can reasonably earmark in your budget for football.
August 28th, 2023 at 2:49 PM ^
Yeah, but at what point does Auburn say it's too much? You think if Freeze craps the bed they won't fire him even if they're paying two buyouts while paying a third coach's salary? I mean maybe we'll find out with MSU if there is a upper limit. But I don't think 70 million over 7 years is enough to stop a program like MSU. I think it would have be over 100 million over like 5 years to stop that.
August 28th, 2023 at 10:20 AM ^
Signing him was a bad decision on its own..... WTF were they thinking by backing up the brinks truck and giving him that insane contract extension?
August 28th, 2023 at 10:20 AM ^
I feel bad for him like I felt bad for Brady Hoke. Clearly in over his head and didn't have the insight or foresight to make a better decision for himself. I know, I know.....who would turn down that much money? I would rather be in a place that's a better fit for me, where I can win and make less money than make a ton of money but be a punching bag for an angry fan base because I don't live up to my contract expectations. Not everyone is a star. Some are just better in a smaller pond.
August 28th, 2023 at 10:30 AM ^
And to his defense, what was he supposed to do; say no? 100 million dollars essentially, guaranteed. That is generations worth of money. He could also plan to stay in the same place with his family for at least the next 10 years. I don't think he has ever BS'ed saying he was some innovator on either side of the ball. He is the epitome of "just a guy" as a HC. He lucked into having the best RB in school history and in America that season, and his team went about 10-10 on "do or die" plays in 2021. I would say most of Mel's tenure will be in the 4-8 to 8-4 range. His final record whenever he is done at MSU will be around .500 with those 2 early Michigan victories being what will be clung onto.
August 28th, 2023 at 10:43 AM ^
I think most (but not all) coahes at that level just they they are God's gift to football. They have always bet on themselves and they get to that position by winning that bet. So they bet on themselves again. Few look beyond that, and that's not even talking about the money.
August 28th, 2023 at 12:15 PM ^
I felt worse for Hoke (not that I wanted him to stay). Hoke deeply loved UM, wanted desperately to win, and genuinely wouldn't have chosen any other job in the world. He was just in over his head.
What are Tuck's genuine feelings for MSU? No idea. But I doubt they run as deep.
August 28th, 2023 at 2:17 PM ^
I think with Mel Tucker, it was probably some hubris. Not with Hoke. He thought he was the luckiest guy in the world and wanted more than anything to right the ship.
August 28th, 2023 at 12:25 PM ^
I've been thinking along the same lines, Wendy and I've been wondering if the smartest move for Tucker is to tank and force MSU to buy him out. The best way to do that is in recruiting. It kind of looks like he is with how he's handling his recruiting staff. Once fired, he can move down a bit and find a comfortable place.
August 28th, 2023 at 12:54 PM ^
I can come up with 95 million reasons not to feel too bad for him...
August 28th, 2023 at 2:19 PM ^
I've known a few people who were overpaid for what they contributed and they seemed to not mind at all. I would be embarrassed.
August 28th, 2023 at 10:22 AM ^
Oh shit Rcmb is not going to like this one. Blue Wall!!
August 28th, 2023 at 10:27 AM ^
Kenneth Walker III made Mel Tucker an insanely rich man for the rest of his life. He also doomed MSU's football program for the next decade.
If you are the top brass at MSU, would you trade an 11-2 Peach Bowl Winning season, and a victory over Michigan, for not being in the predicament you are now? If it was just 11-2 and a Peach Bowl I think they would, but I think that 2021 Michigan victory may have been their 100 million dollar victory.
August 28th, 2023 at 11:12 AM ^
Kenneth Walker AND just an insane number of high-profile coaches leaving high-profile jobs for OTHER high-profile jobs was just the perfect storm of massively overpaying like MSU did. LSU coming open when it did put both them and USC in play, which led to Tucker getting a lot of (per stuff I've read) tepid-ish interest from LSU that his agent tricked MSU into thinking was legitimate. Without LSU I don't know if Tucker really has a huge bargaining chip - he wasn't going to be seriously considered for any of the other big jobs like USC or OU/ND when they popped open. But LSU came open and MSU got terrified this was Nick Saban 2.0 and just overreacted to the nth degree.
August 28th, 2023 at 11:24 AM ^
Just cannot understand the MSU logic to lavish an still unproven coach with a $95M contract after one successful year (that also included an absolutely embarrassing thrashing at OSU).
Should you really be that worried about losing a coach who just finished his second full year as head coach and with barely over a.500 record? And even if you did lose him, wouldn't you still be in a good place that you are now a top 10 and the open position would be more attractive than a school that floundered under the last few years of Dantonio
August 28th, 2023 at 1:52 PM ^
I can answer your question about "understanding the MSU logic". They had their best people working on that for months.
August 28th, 2023 at 2:07 PM ^
Just cannot understand the MSU logic to lavish an still unproven coach with a $95M contract after one successful year (that also included an absolutely embarrassing thrashing at OSU).
This shows the power of a "might." Tuck and his lawyer harnessed that power in a way that should be taught in business school.
He looked like he could continue in the same vein as Matt Dantoni, going 11-2 with a bowl win. Then came the rumors that he "might" be poached.
Imagine the talk in the AD - What if we don't lock him up and he goes somewhere else? He "might" end up making us look real bad for letting him go. He "might" win somewhere else and the media would crucify him. We "might" get fired. How do we protect our jobs and egos?
August 29th, 2023 at 9:41 AM ^
I’ll never forget being at the Michigan tailgate the week after losing to State in 2021. We had the Purdue/State game on tv and as fans were streaming by on their way to the stadium they all laughed out loud when they glanced at the score. Only Sparty could fall that flat on their face after winning their Super Bowl.
August 28th, 2023 at 10:35 AM ^
Now this is a Rainer Sabin article I actually enjoyed.
10/10, would read again.
(but also fuck Rainer Sabin)
August 28th, 2023 at 10:51 AM ^
No mention of multiple players committing assault against their rival team after a loss as part of the chaos. Hmm.
August 28th, 2023 at 10:56 AM ^
Tends to happen when you have a horseshit coach.
August 28th, 2023 at 11:00 AM ^
Valenti ripped him on Friday and rightfully so. MV is an asshole but when it comes to MSU football he can be spot on.
NIL is a tricky thing as we are seeing at UM. MSU is having worse problems than Michigan in regards to NIL. Their recruiting has cratered this year due to staff defections and a change of recruiting coordinator. Naming your football building after a still alive and current bball coach tells recruits where football is in the hierarchy of MSU athletics.
August 28th, 2023 at 12:45 PM ^
Yost and Crisler say hi!
August 28th, 2023 at 1:06 PM ^
Current recruits think Yost and Crisler lived among the dinosaurs.
August 28th, 2023 at 2:07 PM ^
Are they alive? Wow, if true.
August 28th, 2023 at 11:02 AM ^
Fuck the freep
August 28th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^
Mel Tucker's own words: "I'm a horsesh!t coach"
Thanks for the words of wisdom, Mel. You know what your talking about.
August 28th, 2023 at 11:07 AM ^
It's really a nothing piece, largely just repeating weird comments Tucker made in an LSJ article/PR story by noted journalist Graham Couch, but the larger takeaway has always been that a pretty good DC who had one sub-par year at Colorado shouldn't have been given the keys to a program that is already behind the eight-ball in the conference, is the 2nd-biggest program on their own campus, and other than Mark Dantonio selling his soul to various deities to produce maybe the greatest run in modern program history is a middling program. Mel Tucker at $5M a year is basically what MSU is getting, and at that price a guy who can recruit a little, is willing to be "cool" online, and seemingly gets that modern college football at the mid-tier level is faking it until you make it works. But he's being paid like a top coach and he isn't close to that, and honestly his record would be even worse if he wasn't something like 10-1 in 1-score games, a completely unsustainable rate. They already get blown out by almost anyone who's competent on their schedule and if they also stop beating your Indianas and Nebraskas by 3-4 points it can get ugly. Like, they went 5-7 last year and that included going 3-1 in 1-score games against the likes of Illinois and Wisconsin.
August 28th, 2023 at 11:35 AM ^
Is he a pretty good DC?
in the NFL 4 of his 6 defenses were Bottom 10 in scoring defense. His tenure with the Bears was awful
I find it pretty interesting that his best defenses were under defensively oriented HC's. IE Romeo Crennel in Cleveland, Jack Del Rio at Jacksonville, Kirby Smart at GA
Incidentally, Tucker got the "chopping wood" thing from Jack Del Rio
August 28th, 2023 at 2:26 PM ^
The problem with NFL teams is there's so much turnover, especially on bad teams, that's is harder IMO to judge how much of that is on a coordinator vs. the overall team and player personnel. For example, he was DC at Jacksonville in 2011 when they had a really good defense despite being an awful team overall. In particular they're really solid against the pass, which sort of makes sense since he was a DBs coach coming up. Then 2012 rolls around and they're a terrible defense AND a bad team but still decent in the air considering how they got torched by basically everyone. Then he goes to the Bears and is sort of a mess but better pass defense than rush defense before finding his way to Georgia where, for a number of reasons, field good defenses. Now, much like how you can't give him all the blame in then NFL for personnel issues you also can't give him all the credit for having really talented defenses at Georgia that play like them.
I don't think he's a great coach but I fully expect when he's fired from MSU he'll wind up being a DC at a good school and probably be good at it. His defenses at MSU are astoundingly bad against the pass (which surprises me a bit because of his background) but solid against the run, and I've not read anything where the analysis is "MSU doesn't have a plan" on defense as much as "they're bad at it because they don't have a lot of talent". That might be a difference without a distinction but, like, Alex Grinch over at USC fields just as awful defenses and they have talent coming out of their ears.
August 28th, 2023 at 11:17 AM ^
rabble rabble state media blue wall harbooger!!!1!
August 28th, 2023 at 11:20 AM ^
I believe in capitalism like I believe in air. It is a fact of life and is the way things work, but this is the problem with capitalism. Is anyone really worth that crazy kind of money?
I've met people who are absolutely spectacular and had amazing executive grace and had real answers to every question you could throw at them. Some of them succeeded and some of them didn't really have much impact. They're preparation/effort was half of the equation and luck was the other half. There are too many factors in life to predict them all.
Seems like Mel Tucker was good enough to get lucky (Dantonio players + Kenneth Walker), but not good enough to stay lucky.
I think Harbaugh is about as good as you can get, but the spot in 2016, OSU being at it apex and NCAA hate (satellite camps being banned) coalesced into some non-elite years. We're getting the benefit of his skill now, and I'm happy he gets whatever crazy package he gets, but I have to wonder is a Harbaugh or Mel Tucker or anyone really worth 50x what you could be paying a "competent" coach?
Same thing in business. Is a CEO worth 100x what another fairly competent person would be willing to take for the job? The answer may be yes, but I am skeptical.
August 28th, 2023 at 11:55 AM ^
Someone like Henry Ford or The Wright Bros are indeed much more valuable than an average worker. To achieve you must first conceive. Intellect matters. A lot.
However, this does not apply to the Bob Igers who took over an already finished Goliath.
August 28th, 2023 at 12:45 PM ^
That’s the thing about the concept of “worth” in a capitalist environment. It means something different to different people. At the time, Mel Tucker was worth that crazy ass contract because someone actually agreed to it.
August 28th, 2023 at 11:22 AM ^
Fire up Chips this Friday night!
August 28th, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^
Surprise!!! Staye gonna,"STAYE!"
August 28th, 2023 at 11:24 AM ^
I have friends and family that are spartans, and as a university in the state of Michigan -
- I hope the students and community generally prosper and do well.
As a football team, may they lose to Michigan by 50+ points this year.
And every year.
That is all.
Go Blue.
August 28th, 2023 at 2:20 PM ^
Younger brother is an alum and a graduate. However I grew up in AA, and watched my Father attain the highest degree possible. During game week and during the game it's easy to figure out. I'll never root for Msu, but I understand. GO BLUE, forever!!!
August 28th, 2023 at 11:27 AM ^
Mel's driving some very sweet wheels - and leading the Spartan football program is just one of them. Here are a couple of images.
Did someone ask - what direction is the program going?
August 28th, 2023 at 11:36 AM ^
MSU's 2024 recruiting class is currently ranked 15th in the BigTen. At least that means they're beating out 3 teams!
August 28th, 2023 at 11:55 AM ^
For an unspecified number of MGoBlog points - who are the three B1G teams that the Spartans are "out recruiting"? Remember, this reflects the expanded conference for the '24 season
The answer (in reverse order):
- Northwestern
- Indiana, and
- Washington
August 28th, 2023 at 11:41 AM ^
Mel owes half that money to Kenneth Walker, and the other half to his agent. I’m not sure who Mel Tucker’s agent is, but we should all want an agent like that, because that man committed flat out highway robbery on MSU.
None of this makes me worry about the game in EL any less. We all know it’s their Super Bowl and their season will live in die by what happens that night. Just get a W, keep everyone healthy, and then just get out of town
But I do hope they continue their march towards complete irrelevance.