OT : Bronny James suffers cardiac arrest at USC practice, is in stable condition
Don’t know much more than that, it’s on CNN right now. What a scary thing for the family, too, and for any players who were there when it happened. Hope he fully recovers and can continue his playing career.
Waiting for someone to blame the Covid vaccine for Hank Gathers
After Tony Bennett how much more proof do you need?
And just outright dismissing that the shot has had documented adverse effects because it doesn't align with your narrative says more about you than the people you're desperately trying to dunk on. Spouting off nonsense without having access to a single fact is a stupid approach from both angles.
Yes let’s blame a vaccine that no one knows if Bronny even took in the first place.
This might shock everyone but these cardiac arrest in kids is more common than many understand. Us educators know better though
To address your first sentence, Lebron said that he and his whole family took it
They took it in 2021.
Vaccine related myocarditis specifically comes from the Pfizer one within 1 month of the 2nd dose in most cases per JAMA meta analysis.
HOCM is most likely in this scenario. Viral related myocarditis is also possible if he has been showing symptoms of URI in the last two weeks.
Vaccine related myocarditis? Yeah unlikely.
More than unlikely. At that timeframe, it would be fairly characterized as unprecedented.
It's cool that you missed my point entirely. Which was that people who are immediately blaming the shot while knowing nothing about a particular case sound just as stupid as someone saying those people are morons for doing so.
Are you talking to me? I was answering Cobra's question bud.
No, i was replying to him, otherwise the text box would have been staggered under your reply like it is now.
This is one of the biggest reasons I don't like politics.
There is no such thing as a riskless drug. NO SUCH THING!! People have adverse events from Advil! And saying that someone had an adverse event from the COVID vaccine does not mean you dismiss the overall effectiveness of the vaccine to the population.
Is posting scientific articles and data coming from institutions that are monitoring it considered politics?
My reply was not to you.
Posting them while misrepresenting them is considered politics.
Sweden paused vaccines for anyone Under-30 back in 2021, within 3 months of vaccines they saw a trend. They also have the lowest excess deaths in every age bracket, in all of europe from 2020-2023.
Even the U.S. paused Johnson & Johnson's vaccine for females, then didn't recommend it for females, and then it was removed completely from use on humans.
All the big pharma companies (Pfizer, J&J, Purdue, Astrazeneca, Galaxo, Eli Lilly, Merck, Novartis--Moderna = no only becayse they've never MADE anything before), are all currently at this time paying the largest fines in US history, 10's of Billions of dollars in fines, for: falsifying research data, kickbacks to physicians, making false a misleading claims, monopilization, and off-label promotion (and that is what they were successfully CONVICTED of in our very pro-corporate legal system, they were ACCUSED of much more, but settled).
To paraphrase, their quote was, "When you get caught speeding on your way to Billions of dollars, you're happy to pay the ticket and go on your way."
The corona virus vaccines have been the most profitable medical product in history.
Clearly to make any judgements about James' son's cardiac event is not possible without access to their medical records.
However, general skepticism and distrust in 2023, is absolutley warranted, the corruption and consolidation of power around the globe we're currently experiencing has never been seen before in human history and isn't even comprehensible to our everyday senses.
The Covid vaccines were probably the greatest single scientific achievement in the shortest time frame in modern history. I'm not even sure what to compare them to. The moon landing had a better chance of being completed in its time frame. The only thing I can think of are antibiotics. Multiple highly effective vaccines being available in under a year's time from the onset of a novel viral pandemic was nothing short of a miracle.
Let's address a couple of your points.
Sweden's outcomes shows just how much a health care system available to all people, not just the better off, matters to not only Covid but all public health emergencies. Covid cast a harsh light on the catastrophe of the American health system's multi-tiered system based on socioeconomic stratification. Sweden demonstrated having a population that has access to health care before, during, and after a pandemic can mitigate the worst outcomes. America showed that if you start a pandemic with an unhealthy population with little health care access, you're in for a disaster.
J&J did not pull their vaccine off the market for safety reasons. The FDA/CDC made a decision to pause authorization for 10 days while it investigated 6 cases of blood clots in vaccine recipients. They determined the clots were exceptionally rare and re-authorized but the reputational harm caused a major drop in people choosing J&J (efficacy was also modestly lower). They were finally pulled off the market this year because millions of unused doses were expiring and the fear was that expired doses would be administered in error. Your post makes it sound they were pulled off the market because they were found to be inherently unsafe. That was deliberately misleading.
The Covid clinical trials were the largest and most throughly scrutinized trials of any in history. Nothing else compares to the global focus on such a small set of pharmaceutical products. No one has raised serious questions about the veracity of the data. Pharma companies don't get to manipulate multi-institutional clinical trials-- that's a benefit of the double blind structure. I'm not defending the industry's bad actors on the marketing side, especially on the opioid fiasco, where there are issues they come out eventually and get punished. That didn't happen here. Every industry executive knew how much scrutiny there would be.
Yes, the vaccine makers made huge profits from Covid vaccines. Of course they did. Given the circumstances it was a bargain for humanity.
/rant
Thank you for the update, Mr. Pfizer. Maybe you can explain in your next post why something advertised as a “vaccine” doesn’t prevent anyone from getting Covid or passing it in.
I find it hard to believe you're actually this obtuse so I assume you're just trolling for trolling's sake.
No, I’m just wondering how anyone can still be cheerleading for a shot, and even referring to it as some kind of miracle, that failed at what it was claimed it would do and, in the end, was nothing more than a huge moneymaker for pharmaceutical companies and a tool governments could use to force obedience.
Uh, nothing but a moneymaker? You mean apart from saving millions or tens of millions of lives globally?
The purpose of a vaccine is to prevent serious illness and spread. The Covid vaccines did both, though neither at 100% (and no one would have ever expected 100%, even 60 or 70% efficacy at preventing serious illness would have been a giant win, so 90%+ efficacy versus serious illness was a miracle by any definition). The purpose was not to keep everyone from ever testing positive or getting the sniffles.
The benefit against community spread decreased substantially as the successive variants became more an more infectious, but the fact remains the viral loads in vaccinated individuals were lower and had a shorter "tail" than unvaccinated even through the Omicron wave.
You somehow missed the entire purpose of a vaccine. The companies (nor public health officials) ever claimed you couldn't get an infection-- this is an upper respiratory targeted virus, there is no possibility to stop something from going in your nose except for a high-quality mask. Not sure you how missed all this during the free time you had to learn about Covid.
Thank you.
I guess I dreamed this.
https://twitter.com/backtolife_2023/status/1489533531139231745?s=61&t=1_N-RyXrtxDsSyJWJJu9ow
And you should probably get ahold of those other countries’ governments which discontinued the vaccine for young people because of safety issues. Please set them straight. But I do know of one highly respected thinker who agrees with you about the greatness of the Covid shots:
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-says-he-saved-100-million-lives-covid-vaccines-1774178
That statement from Fauci was during the original phase of vaccine vs. original Covid strains.
He co-authored an excellent paper this year, worth reading, describing the challenge of trying to control infection and spread of a virus that replicates quickly in the nasopharynx without making significant contacts with the systemic immune system. The next-gen of vaccine approaches is almost certainly nasal-administered vaccines, and that induced immunity could potentially respond more quickly to a nascent infection, but preventing inhaled viral particles from landing on and binding to the nasal epithelium is physically impossible.
I'm sorry you felt so misled. And if Trump wants to extol the virtues of vaccines, my only complaint is that he doesn't do it loudly and more often, like any responsible leader would do.
Did he mention funding gain of function research and his efforts to avoid blowback by trying to discredit the lab leak theory? Buddy, if you’re praising Fauci, lthe Covid “vaccine” or any other part of the government’s response to Covid, you’re hopeless.
...you’re hopeless
Irony is not just the opposite of wrinkly.
actually didn't the President of the United States claim you couldn't get the virus once you got the vaccine? I'm pretty sure Joe Biden did
Well, don't get your medical advice from Joe Biden.
I can't believe this has to be said.
It should also be noted that while everyone who was skeptical of the C19 vaccine, etc. went in a tizzy over Sweden's pandemic response, Sweden still has something like 10% higher of a vaccination rate than the US.
"All of Europe" = Finland, Norway, etc. those are the gold-standard in comparables.
Your reply to in regards to Sweden is erroneous and non-sequitor. They are not comparable to the US in any way. They are comparable to Finland and Norway. They paused vaccine for Under-30, full-stop.
"largest and most thoroughly scrutinized trials of any history [sic]"
This is the way one argues for legality of best practices, not veracity of truth.
There's signal and there's noise.
I like what Sweden did better.
Sweden had the highest incidence of Covid-19 incidence and mortality relative to its Nordic peers, which is directly attributable to its fairly lax attitude to public health measures such as social distancing. Plenty of studies on this. LINK
The point is that people who wanted Sweden's loose restrictions aren't also willing to adopt their broad social safety net that made such loose policies possible without a total catastrophe (but, as shown above, still lagging their Nordic peers).
My guy, you just cited a study who's entire dataset only goes until January 3rd, 2021.
For reference this "study" only includes data from when Trump was still the president. To cite it now is not just misinformation but disinformation.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. By all means take more covid vaccines if you desire, it's your medical choice. But I'd ask that you refrain from making statements about vaccine procedures and pandemic response with extremely poorly dated references and information, seeing as we are still in the very middle of pandemic outcomes. I wouldn't have replied otherwise.
The study data reflects the time period when public health policies would have been most relevant to outcomes. In the absence of effective vaccines, those policies were almost the only thing mitigating excess deaths beyond the overall robustness of the health care systems we're comparing and the overall health of the populations.
But since you'd like updated information, the gold standard database on excess deaths is maintained by The Economist. It was last updated... July 25, 2023. That seems fairly timely. LINK
Sweden ranks 109th for the entirety of the pandemic in terms of excess deaths.
But that could have been immensely worse. NYT did a deep dive into the data a few months ago and ultimately came out with what I would consider a fair conclusion:
In the end, “what the ‘Swedish model’ really suggests is that pandemic mitigation measures can be effectively deployed in a respectful, largely noncoercive way,” Francois Balloux wroterecently. “Obviously, being a rich country with a decent welfare net and achieving high vaccination rates didn’t hurt either.”
What kind of case study is this? And how replicable are its lessons in a country like the United States? Sweden never exactly let it rip, nor did the country truly expose its population to uninterrupted spread. Instead, it asked its citizens to protect themselves, according to a suite of best practices familiar to anyone who’s lived through the last three years with open eyes. And then to vaccinate like crazy. The result wasn’t painless; the country didn’t beat or even emerge unscathed from the pandemic. But it did survive it. Like much of the rest of the world.
Good stuff. Also, OP claiming your dataset from 2021 was irrelevant due to timing and then citing a brief pause in Sweden in 2021 is galaxy-brain cognitive dissonance but I guess I shouldn't be shocked.
Anyway, I've missed these COVID threads but got my fill on this one.
Incredible idiocy on display here.
The amount of ingnorance you spew takes exponentially effort to address than it took you to vomit out.
Like Einstein said about the only two things that are infinite, for you, there's no hope.
Good luck and please solely follow your own advice while refraining from giving it out to others.
"NYT did a deep dive"
Sorry I'm more interested in public health statisticians than "The New York Times" and their "deep dive" (the regurgitation of marketing buzzwords are such an immediate indicator cluelessness).
You've got shit for brains bro, and it's a moral imperative to call out bullshitters when you see them.
were there placebo studies im curious. can you link to one?
They were all placebo controlled. This was a novel virus, so there were no previous versions of the vaccines to use as the negative control. Here are the original clinical trial writeups for both Pfizer and Moderna published in the New England Journal of Medicine. These were the papers reflecting 95 or 94% efficacy against illness that stunned much of the world when they were released.
For good measure, here's the J&J study on the single-dose vaccine.
I just looked at these links. they were relative risk values which are very inaccurate. The reduction was 0.8% for Pfizer meaning the vaccine did not help 99.2% for those who got it.
I just looked at you post. It's clear that you, like most anti-vaxxers I have read, don't have a clue as to how to read a medical research report. The results were not "relative risk values" but absolute outcomes:
Among 36,523 participants who had no evidence of existing or prior SARS-CoV-2 infection, 8 cases of Covid-19 with onset at least 7 days after the second dose were observed among vaccine recipients and 162 among placebo recipients.
These results were for the seven days after getting the second dose/second placebo. These are not lifetime numbers.
Reading is hard for you, isn’t it?
Good lord. Sometimes there just aren't enough facepalms in the world.
This whole post reads like unsubstantiated rants, so I don't expect you to provide citations but wanted to go through a couple of your claims because good lord are they batty.
Sweden paused vaccines for anyone Under-30 back in 2021, within 3 months of vaccines they saw a trend. They also have the lowest excess deaths in every age bracket, in all of europe from 2020-2023.
As of mid-2022 87% of Sweden residents 12-and-older had received at least 1 vaccine shot, but by all means focus on a temporary pause they did in 2021.
Even the U.S. paused Johnson & Johnson's vaccine for females, then didn't recommend it for females, and then it was removed completely from use on humans.
As noted below, they paused it temporarily because of a rare complication, then determined it was exceedingly rare and there were other options for those patients, plus the benefits still outweighed the potential costs generally. Oh, and the discarded doses were because they were expired and J&J didn't make any more because this country wasted a fuck-ton of vaccines due to "skepticism" that sounds a lot like the word salads you've been dropping in this topic.
I have no idea where you got the billions of dollars in fines in misleading COVID promotion (unless you're referring to Pfizer paying a $2B fine in 2009 for promotion related to an anti-inflammatory drug), which sure - large corporations and entities break the rules to make money. That's true across all industries and nations, and doesn't have a ton of relevance to Bronny James's heart issues.
The corona virus vaccines have been the most profitable medical product in history.
Yes, for 1 year they generated record-breaking profits. The next year sales basically held firm while the anti-viral pill kicked up, which...isn't a vaccine and shockingly doesn't seem to get anyone's dander up even though it treat COVID. As for record-breaking drugs, the previous record-holder was Humira, which sold $20B for a single year, edging our Lipitor. Over its lifetime Humira has made over $200B before generics could be made, so I guess it'll be cheaper now but I also presume it'll still sell decently. But unlike a lot of drugs that have to be taken forever, the vaccines are so effective and so safe that most people probably won't need too many boosters over their lifetimes, especially since COVID doesn't seem to be as mutating as, say, the cold or flu.
Clearly to make any judgements about James' son's cardiac event is not possible without access to their medical records.
Sure seems like you are making some judgments based on no evidence but, yeah, just asking questions.
Phenomenal post, thanks.
I can’t believe how many idiots would immediately dismiss the possibility that a cardiac event in a young, healthy male might have something to do with an experimental “vaccine” which, although rare, has been shown to have possible cardiac-related side effects. Regardless of the cause of James’ problem, forcing anyone to take that shot, especially the young and healthy, is ridiculous.
I don't know how experimental this vaccine is at this point - hundreds of millions of people have had multiple doses, and the incidence of things like myocarditis are tiny in comparison to those who have had no or very mild side effects like you'd have with any vaccine, or people who have had the same events with Covid itself. Could it have been myocarditis? I don't know and neither do you. Honestly, it's pretty irresponsible to put this out there at all when no one on this board has seen his medical charts. But I guess that's what social media is for: wild speculation about stuff we know nothing about.
Came for the thoughts and prayers, am staying for the Covid fight. We haven't had one of these in a while! It even includes people posting links to random articles that support their viewpoint, just like old times!!
This same thing happened literally last year at the same school to Vince Iwuchukwu . I doubt the vaccine had anything to do with it, but given this has happened 2x in 2 years at the same college, I am curious if it has something to do with how their program is handling practice/conditioning,
Scary stuff. Hopeful for a full and quick recovery.
As others have pointed out - basketball / sports is secondary to life. If this means that he retires from amateur / college basketball - and, must forgo a potential NBA career, sobeit.
Great that he's out of the ICU and wishing him a complete recovery.
I don't know the specifics of the onset of his cardiac arrest - but, it does appear he was tended to / treated quickly. Credit to the staff and those involved - because it definitely seems like they responded rapidly.