OT: Is 2022 a good time to buy an EV?

Sure

Ok.  Bored at home and everything is closed due to the snow.  Let's chat:

Anyone try to survive with 2 cars and 3 drivers (one in HS)? Depends on the family and how much the kid needs the car.  How much longer until kid moves out for college/life?  If adults are able to share, no big deal.  Electric shouldn't limit this, assuming that none of you are driving 200+ miles each day.
 

What's the full EV that you would purchase at a price point under 50k including
taxes so under 45-47k MSRP? As far as tech goes, the ranges are pretty similar.  Tesla has an edge, but you definitely pay for it.  The key here is which one is most comfortable and fits your needs.  I fully believe the era of "We're a Ford/Chevy/Stellantis family" is over.  Yes, it's cool to be brand loyal, but unless you have family ties (employee, etc.) to the brands, it's foolish to eliminate a vehicle because of brand name.  Try them out and see what you like.
 

Has anyone received the Fed/state tax credit and if so, was that just
credited to the taxes the following April so you got a big return? Feed your brain: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml 
 

Auto insiders: Li-Ion Battery tech is turning the corner somewhat, but I've also
heard that solid state battery tech is around the next corner and was wondering
if anyone in the auto industry could chime in re: SS batteries and if they will make
current EVs obsolete in 5ish years? Solid state has been the 'future' for a decade, now.  That said, the solid state will likely be solid state lithium, so the change in materials will not be huge.  The key is scaling the current solid state batteries to be able to handle the power necessary to run a vehicle.  400 mile range will be possible with solid state, but what is the threshold where people overcome 'range anxiety' and say "This can by my everyday driver"?  Again, feed your brain: https://www.energymonitor.ai/tech/energy-storage/why-solid-state-batteries-will-eventually-power-your-laptop-or-ev
 

Obvs the prices for cars generally have increased, so can anyone speak to the
prospect of supply and/or EV supply specifically getting better before Sept that
may bring cost down? The key to the rise in prices is scarcity.  Anyone who has taken Econ 101 (Love you, Jan Gerson) will know that items have a general level of demand and when the supply drops below that level, the price goes up.  Semiconductors supply is very low, therefore vehicle production is very low.  Your average car has over 1,000 semiconductors to run all of the various systems.  Until the semiconductor shortage is over, supply will be low.  Feed Brain: https://economistwritingeveryday.com/2022/01/04/how-many-semiconductor-chips-are-there-in-a-car/#:~:text=Cars%20and%20trucks%20have%20something,back%20to%20one%20central%20processor

If price is an issue and you can afford to wait, do it.  If you need to pull the trigger soon, be prepared to pay a higher price.

Dealerships, in almost all cases, are independently owned and operated.  This means that manufacturers cannot tell the dealers how to price the vehicles.  The vehicle is sold to a dealer with a suggested MSRP.  Dealers are free to charge whatever price they wish, however.  There have been stories of OEMs telling dealers "You'd better not do it or else...", but there would likely be a lawsuit if any action was taken.
 

Auto insiders: I've heard Chinese EVs are on the way. Any worries that the
non-Chinese cars won't be as competitive once China enters the N.Amer. market?  To enter the NA market, China needs a dealership network or to partner with an established network (think Walmart/Costco) to sell their product.  There is also a large lobbying group called NADA (National Auto Dealers Association) that will definitely try to limit this.  The next thing the consumer needs to worry about is warranty.  If the new Chinese cars come in and are ultra affordable, that's great.  However, if the units begin to have recalls and quality issues, you have to wonder who is backing the warranty on the vehicle.  If the company that brought them to the US market folds, are you stuck with a $30k lawn ornament?  Finally, let's say the Chinese group is able to convince current auto dealers to open franchised dealerships to sell the Chinese product.  These are likely going to be the same dealers that already own the Ford/GM/Stellantis/Japanese Big 3 dealerships.  They are not about to cut their own throats to make a quick buck at one dealership.

All in all, this is going to make for some amazing Economics papers over the next decade.  I can't wait to see how it plays out.

Yes.. here is a special referral code 8RF66I if you want a Fisker Ocean. This one is a bomb...and there's gonna be a huge shortage in a few years, quite soon you won't be able to get one.  so a used Ocean will draw a huge premium.  Costs $250 to reserve, fully refundable less $25 admin fee.  

But the best deal going is the Ford Escape hybrid.  Can get the plug in version for like 26k and u get the tax credit so net u pay 19000. And first 40 miles are all electric.  So if u don't use it for a long commute it's possible never to use the gas engine.

For those living in an apartment complex, the issue will be charging the battery especially in the areas with colder and longer winters.

As for two cars and three drivers...my answer is a loud "NO!"  Our HS senior daughter was recently hit by a Greek Orthdox priest.  (She's OK...and he admitted the accident was his fault.)  Due to the issue with getting parts, we've been down to two cars and three drivers.  Even though my wife works from home, it's been a bit of a hassle.  Admittedly, the situation is exacerbated by my car being a manual...as my wife can drive a manual but hates it...and my daughter isn't quite yet up to speed on the manual.

I'm not an auto insider, but a good friend is an automotive journalist.  He has told me that we're only a few years off from the range being at 400-500 miles.  We own (not lease) two of our three cars (my car and the kids' car)...with an eye toward passing them off to 2023 UM Grad and my HS senior daughter (hopefully 2026 UM Grad - fingers crossed) within the next few years...and then I'll get an EV.  I want to be able to drive from Metro Detroit to Chicago and other midwest destinations without any worry...so the current 250-350 mile range isn't enough for me.  

I wouldn't dismiss a hybrid out of hand. My Accord hybrid got almost 50 miles per gallon and gets over 50 with my dad driving it like the grandpa he is. Currently quite a benefit. 

Chevy car salesman here.  My dealership has not been able to sell our only new Bolt for about a year.  The reason for that is because there is a recall on the battery that has prevented us from selling it.  The recall was announced at some point last year and there is no fix for it.  It has to do with the battery itself and is a safety concern.  Stay away from the Bolt if you ask me.

Also I never liked the Bolt.  It's fine mechanically but its just so damn ugly and the interior is a real eyesore.  Too much plastic for a 40k car.

For a first car I understand the range anxiety concerns, but for a second/third car, the way you are talking about driving it, an EV is a perfect fit.   Not having to ever gas up or get oil changes is great, so I would personally recommend the all EV over a hybrid for your third car.  Of course I am biased because I had hoped to get 200k out of our Toyota Highlander but the electronics (not  the battery, conked out at 150k) and the $7500 repair bill was not worth it.

We have the Kona and are very happy.   Very fun car to drive, whether you enjoy trying to eke every mile you can out of the regenerative braking or you drive it with a bit more pep.   Obviously having a driveway/garage is a big advantage, but maybe your wife has fast charge options at work?

As for, do you “need” three cars, your writeup sounds like you could survive fine with two cars.    Does your 16 year old “need” a car?    Are they using it to get to work, do they have extracurriculars that preclude taking the bus?   If the third car is want, not a need, you probably ought to be thinking about what you are trading off.    Will it make it harder to pay for college if you buy a third car?   Will you skimp on vacations to have it? (If your kid is 16, getting everyone together for a family vacation is only going to get harder).  Are there other drivers coming along in the family who will use the car?   Will your daughter use the car to do errands that will take a burden off you and your wife?   Everyone’s tradeoffs will be different and if you are in a financial situation where you can handle the third car, there are probably no bad choices, just ones with different advantages and disadvantages.

For 3, I believe the credit is $7,500 but only applies if you owe 7,500 or more in federal taxes.  I don’t think you get a cash payment if you owe less.  Those credits also go away once the manufacturer sells a certain amount of qualifying vehicles.

State incentives obviously vary state to state.  Here in Vermont it’s up to $4,000 (I think) but comes out of a pool of money, so it’s first come, first served.

Of course, I may be taking out of my ass, but I think I’m at least close to accurate.

2020 was when it was good for me to buy an EV.  In 2022, it's been great having one!

Love my T3 in alaska Winter 

I have a son who is 17 and we gave him grandma's old CRV when he turned 16.5.  Best decision ever.  We have two younger kids and getting everyone where they need to go wouldn't be possible without him being able to drive himself most places.  Additionally, my car had issues recently and I was able to use his while it was in the shop.  

Now, easier for me to tell you to buy a third car when the third one costs $2500 from a relative rather than $45k for a new EV.....but if you can figure out how to do it you should.  

If prices and supply are as crazy as it seems, you could consider buying a heavily used car for your kid and delaying the new car purchase for your wife for a while.  Doubt either of them would love that idea but it's an option.  

Do you want to buy a car or do you want to buy "the future". It sounds like you need a car.

In that case you might want to try searching FB marketplace or local auctions for terms like Camaro, Mustang, F150, Toyota, le Fit, etc. Spend the rest of your budget on gas and extend your range to The Moon.

Hybrids are, from a mechanical complexity standpoint, undesirable in my estimation. Either stick to IC or go with EV.

I now have 2 EVs, neither of which is for a 200+ mile road trip (have backup IC auto(s) for that use). They, EVs, are *fantastic* for local errands, commutes, etc. Couldn`t be happier with them.

Be prepared to have to possibly modify home's electrical panel to "refuel" your EVs. You will want 40 to 50 amps of 240V power. You will want/love to charge up at home.

Be prepared to try to avoid DC charging your EV unless it's unavoidable. The infrastructure is still in its infancy in several dimensions. 

If you need to road trip with one? Be prepared to multiply your useful range by .8 to .65 as range decreases sharply with interstate speeds, use of cabin heater, heated seats, and steering wheel. Note, I am New England based, hence my observations about heaters. And you will need to have a solid plan for recharging upon reaching destination.

Mustang Mach E and Polestar 2 are two EVs I would consider. They still offer the 7500 tax credit. Remember, that's a credit against your tax obligation so your tax bill needs to exceed 7500. 

And sharing a car with a child? That lasted about 2 weekends for me. Nope, I bought new and they got use of the "safety and mechanically sound" oldest car I owned. Cars were still owned by me and still on my insurance policies. And. Still my rules. 👍

Just bought a Kia EV6 today. Did my research and it’s the one for me. 
 

remember, though, the rebate is non-refundable. It will not increase your refund. It can only take you to $0 owed. That’s a huge catch for a lot of people. 

I put a deposit down on a rivian suv in February. I expect it will be available next year. Will be setting up solar at the house this next year to get us off grid as much as possible.

Rivian is building a plant in Georgia which makes me feel good. I avoid as much Chinese made junk as I possibly can and will pay premiums to do so.

I can only really address the first question by asking you a couple of questions that you should consider.

1. Are either of the cars you have from a dealer with a good loaner system if the car is in for maintenance? 

2. Do you have rental coverage on your insurance so you're not without a car?

I don't know when there will be improvement, but some (most?) cars are currently taking a laughably long time to get parts when they need repairs right now, so think about you situation if you would find yourself with an issue with one of the two.

I think the answer to 1. is very much "it depends".  I have a relative with two teen drivers who don't really care to drive even though they live in suburbia and it seems to work just fine for them.  Another with one teen driver who does his own thing a lot and carts his siblings around and it drive the whole family nuts to be down a car.  City/Burb/Rural probably matters a lot too.

I'd honestly be surprised if you could get many of those listed vehicles at that price point.  Supply will definitely be a problem.  You might find Bolts in inventory but I don't know what has to be done to lift the stop-sale.  The factory is restarting production I believe (LG Chem the battery maker is eating a huge cost for the issue), so you may be able to get one soon.

As mentioned Tesla not qualifying for the credit is going to jack up your cost.  

Otherwise, you're probably a strong candidate to make the jump to a full EV.  Having an available ICU car in the family should make any range anxiety issues a non-factor (unless you're in an occupation that involves a ton of daily driving).

I hope Rivian can get past their current spate of issues and deliver on their promise, reviews of the R1T pre-production were glowing and I love the look of the R1S even though I'm not much of a SUV person.  

I just got a Tesla Model 3 with the long range option and it was under $50k.  You have to factor in additional cost if you get the 240v wall connector for faster charging.  This is my first EV and I am a big fan of the car though I suspect there will be increased competition for this segment of the market.  I do mostly in-town/suburban driving and it is more convenient.  I expect to take longer trips in the fall and the whole super-charger network thing will be a different long-drive experience for sure.  Good luck with what you decide.

What you are describing is perfect for an EV. I have a Mach E and I love it because I am able to fill my “tank” off peak with electricity each night. Have a second car for longer trips. Even in dead of winter I’m getting enough range each day.  The tech is cool and having an AWD mustang is fun. Also I have the base model and it is still well appointed. 

I have received the tax rebate and it’s even more now. You just need the vin and purchase date and it’s super easy to do on the taxes. order now because it will take 6 months to get. I ordered mine in May and got it in November. 
 

I also had a special 240 line installed for $1k. Would have been cheaper but it was a long distance from my electrical panel to garage and wire is expensive. I can get 20-25 miles of charging per hour so overnight I can get full again. Never had to charge outside my home. 
 

Anyone have experience with Lucid?

We were looking at them the other day and it seemed like a step up from Tesla. The trunk on the car was a great design too.

We will be needing a new car next May, so we are starting the process now. 

2 cars and 3 drivers (one teen)?

We had 2 cars and 5 drivers (3 teens), though it was only a real issue in the Summer when 2 of those were home from college.

Of course, that was a different era, fighting over who gets the Stanley Steamer, and who gets the curved dash Olds.

Actually, it was a pair of Datsun 510s. Great, great cars.

I've researched this myself and I rarely recommend google over MGoBlog. 

With our youngest leaving the house, I wanted to get a fun daily driver like the new two door Ford Bronco. The Ford dealer experience this week was so unbelievably awful and deceptive I think I might just order a Tesla next week. Probably the Performance variation of the Model Y. Driven my brother in law's a few times and it's a neat car.

Adding my 2 cents even though it's a little later. Bought a Model Y about a year ago, was expecting to do 1 electric and 1 ICE car for awhile, probably will buy another EV sooner rather than later to replace the current ICE car.

1. No experience, will say be prepared for you and your wife negotiating about who takes the electric car, my experience has been it's a much better experience for doing errands.

2. Keep in mind if you're buying right now MSRP and purchase price are different for anyone not doing direct to consumer. Kia EV6, Polestar and Fisker have EVs but I'm not sure if they're in the US and what price.

3. Did not qualify for credit with my car, given you're looking at a 50k car I'm assuming you pay 7500 in federal taxes you should have no problem getting the credit at tax time, with wonky prices right now just make sure the total cost makes sense after credit.

4. Solid state batteries are coming eventually but still many years from commercial at scale production. Initial versions of solid state probably won't be huge improvements over the advances made in current tech. Don't purchase based on this

5. Before Sep seems unlikely. Neon for semiconductor manufacturing is impacted by the Ukraine - Russia conflict. I would make the best decision based on current conditions.

6. They might be very good the Munro Live Youtube (auto engineering consultant) channel certainly thinks the Chinese EVs will compete in the US pretty soon. They won't be a step change though and are a little longer out from wide availability.

Other things:

Your planned usage suggests you can charge with a normal 120v 15A outlet and don't need to invest immediately in a charger and higher power outlet.

I would prioritize higher efficiency, charge speed, and meeting at least a 250 mile range (as you've identified). 300+ mile range will make longer road trips feel basically normal since you'll be able to drive for ~3 hours before stopping and charging will be basically complete after you've used the bathroom and grabbed a snack or meal. I drove from east coast to Chicago and felt very comfortable with the superchargers it added 30-45minutes of wait time after bathroom and meals to my ~14 hour road trip in, 5-15 minute chunks. You're experience will vary in none Tesla EVs but should still be doable on major highways.

I wouldn't do a hybrid at this point 2 drive trains is not desirable from a reliability and maintenance perspective.