Non business-type crootin or a National Championship? Hypothetical choice
The hot topic before this NSD is of course what I would consider the "business-like" recruiting tactics of one Jim Harbaugh and staff. My personal stance on the issue is I don't believe that big time success (multiple B1G championships or 1 NC in a decade) is obtainable without these business-like recruiting practices. Sadly, I don't think these two things are mutually exlusive anymore. I don't like these types of practices and makes me feel a bit icky, but it also got me thinking - do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?
I'm thinking about the benefits of the other players, coaches, students, alumni, fans etc. If a few kids have to "sacrifice" in order for the collective to benefit, is it worth it?
So - would you be OK with this kind of stuff happening with recruiting every year if it meant we'd get 2-3 B1G championships and 1 NC every 10 years?
January 26th, 2016 at 11:33 AM ^
be good if your coach could give a bit of insight into the situations when the rules permit. Right now you really only hear one side of the story. Not that he necessarily owes anyone answers--and question/answer sessions doesn't seem to be Harbaugh's thing, but there is a lot of noise out there right now. A statement of policy might be good.
January 26th, 2016 at 11:34 AM ^
does it take to get in to the CFP? Because last I checked, moral victories still mean you are a loser on the field according to the scoreboard...
Hail Harbaugh, and Go Blue.
January 26th, 2016 at 11:38 AM ^
January 26th, 2016 at 11:46 AM ^
Harbs is not dishonest. Probably the furthest from it if you got to know him even a bit.
Harbs is psychotically driven to have this program at "the top"
A big part of this is the push to fill a class in year one before the season had happened and the brand became even more prominent.
Slow playing and even turning away some commits was not invented with Harbaugh. Every coach at MIchigan preceeding him did it. Beleive me.
Even Hoke expected a pretty big commitment by the player post commitement. You can't just commit and then sit back and not visit, call, communicate, participate etc.
It is an emotional process and it is hard not to be enfatuated with "the best" offer and potentially ignore signs.
For those who think Harbs is getting slimy - you are reacting to probably 25% of the information that (could) be available.
January 26th, 2016 at 12:42 PM ^
term "Harbs" . Everyone knows it's HARBAUGH!
the only thing that could possibly be worse woud be if you used the term Harbz...
Everything else you said I am onboard with 1000%
January 26th, 2016 at 11:53 AM ^
Recruiting seems a lot like dating/marriage.
So someone asks you out and the feeling is mutual. But they haven't really answered your calls for awhile. It's over, OK? They probably found someone better than you, that happens in life. Just because they asked you out a few months ago doesn't mean you're definitely going to get married. This goes both ways, of course.
January 26th, 2016 at 11:54 AM ^
We can win 10-11 games per per year with Harbaugh without doing this--that makes us an elite program every year, and that's what Michigan should be. I don't care one bit if we don't win the NC because of it.
January 26th, 2016 at 11:58 AM ^
We should have an early signing period, otherwise kids can decommit on signing day and coaches can find other players to replace them. This isn't that big of a deal.
January 26th, 2016 at 11:58 AM ^
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January 26th, 2016 at 12:00 PM ^
I think it all boils down to competition. If some kid gets his offer and decides to not improve and just coast, Harbaugh has every right to give that scholly to someone who may have improved during their senior season or has more enthusiasm. He is just giving these guys an early lesson of what the real world is like.
January 26th, 2016 at 12:07 PM ^
National Championship all day. Nice guys do not win in recruiting.
January 26th, 2016 at 12:10 PM ^
I'm for treating people as you would like to be treated. Deal with people openly, honestly, and fairly. I think we'll win enough that way. If winning more or bigger requires being sleazy, I can live without it.
I guess I have enough personal accomplishments in my life so that I don't require outsized gratification from Michigan sports to give me a sense of self worth.
January 26th, 2016 at 12:20 PM ^
As someone who deals with recruiting on a daily basis in a different sport, softball, let me offer some perspective on this topic. Because, both as a parent (my daughter is a committed 2017) and a liason (I work with our select organization players, over 100) I have a some insight.
1) Football players have the luxury of "collecting offers" from schools, beginning in the 10th grade usually (some offers seem to go out to some select freshmen). They can take unoffical visits to all these schools and get to know coaches, compare and contrast campuses, research the majors offered, and any other thing that drives their own decision, like weather, etc..
2) All other sports, with the exception of football and basketball, have it MUCH worse. Let me explain how it works elsewhere. First, top schools start offering players in 8th grade! Worse, the average player has from a few weeks to a few months to make a decision, otherwise the coach moves on. So very young players and their parents have to make a decision on what to do, right now!
An 8th or 9th grader has to decide where they want to go to school. No comparing to other options (unless they fall into the 10% of players who happen to get multiple offers at one time). Is this the best I can do? Do they offer what I want to study, which I don't know because I am 15! And to top it off, there is is added issue of scholarship amount. Unlike the big 2 sports, other athletes are almost always offered partial scholarships (some exceptions like a pitcher, etc)
So a 9th grader gets an offer from Michigan for softball for 35%. They family does not have the ability to easily pay for college, so amount does matter. Do we take it or do we decline and roll the dice that someone will offer more money later? What if are only other option ends up being Central Michigan for 50% (not trying to be mean, just making a point).
My daugher rolled the dice a few times during the process and we got VERY lucky. Things worked out better for us than I ever could have dreamed of. Including turning down Wisconsin as a freshmen and learning later she didn't want a huge school.
What I am trying to point out is the while the football system has it's faults, it is 100 times better than softball and the other sports. These kids get to collect offers for a year or two, get to know schools, coaches, cities, weather, etc.. and then make a decision. They also have backup plans in place because of this process.
And they are trying to decide where they will get a FREE education and play the sport they love. So maybe they don't get their first choice, so what, life isn't fair. But they still have great options, all of them do! Those Michigan commits that favor education can pick up the phone and get a free education at a top ranked university. I promise you that the coaches at non Power 5 schools, yet who are ranked as top education schools, would quickly make room for an ex-Michigan commit. And those players who care about playing time, or other things, can also quickly pick up the phone and find a coach.
I can also promise you two things. The coaches are being honest with these kids and parents. Whether they choose to listen to what is being said is another thing. Coach says 50/50 a year out, and they know they will be in the top 50%.
Second, this will have little to no impact on future recuiting. Why? Because every player believes they are the best, their parents believe they are the best. And those kids that ended up not attending Michigan after committing wern't as good as I am, I am the guy who is going to start for all 4 years. Their hubrus will keep this from hurting us the same way it hasn't hurt the SEC, who has been doing this for 20 years and still dominates football today.
We are not, nor should we be, "above" playing by the same rules as everyone else, come down off your high horse please. And remember, coaches are prohibited from telling their side of the story and players and parents are sad and will not tell the truth (most of the time) about how things actually went down.
And if you want to feel sorry for people, I could tell you 50 stories that are much, much worse than a kid who doesnt get to play football at Michigan. I'll start with the kid who is smart enough to go to college but doesn't have a way to pay or the help to even get in and get loans.
Perspective people, perspective.
GO BLUE!
January 26th, 2016 at 12:53 PM ^
January 26th, 2016 at 12:23 PM ^
January 26th, 2016 at 12:24 PM ^
January 26th, 2016 at 12:38 PM ^
And it only applies to colleges that are potential destinations for elite talent.
All of the elite talent likes to commit at the very end. Witness Rashan Gary announcing at 3:00 pm on signing day. If you think that you have a shot, what do you do?
A) Do you go into signing day with an open unfilled scholarship which then goes unused if he doesn't choose you (or try to scoop up a kid who didn't send in an LOI)? An what happens if there isn't just one guy who is announcing on NSD, but rather 5? This is an awfully big risk.
OR ...
B) Do you sign up the best players that you can get to commit ahead of time and forego the elite talent? Keep in mind that the earlier that you offer, the better chance you have of signing a kid. Do you only recruit and offer elite talent up until the last minute and then try to swoop in on lesser talent from weaker schools when the elite talent doesn't commit?
OR ...
C) Do you do what Harbaugh has been doing?
I don't think that there is much realistic choice here. If you don't do what he is doing, you aren't going to compete for a B1G title let alone a National Championship. How many of you enjoyed the Rich Rod and Hoke years?
January 26th, 2016 at 12:41 PM ^
January 26th, 2016 at 12:49 PM ^
However--I would much rather be concerned with the "dirty recruiting" practices of having to pull an offer late in the game vs being accused of over signing, bring bag men to deliver cash to parents, hiring hookers, grade changes and shady admission practices, etc, etc--although I think we're all relatively aware those are potential problems we just haven't heard about yet. Let's not be completely naive
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January 26th, 2016 at 12:50 PM ^
January 26th, 2016 at 12:53 PM ^
Just get the best players and win. I really don't give a damn how it happens. I'm sick of losing to OSU and MSU and certainly sick of not competing for a national title.
January 26th, 2016 at 6:06 PM ^
January 26th, 2016 at 8:16 PM ^
You want to go back to having nice, conventional guys like Hoke and 5-7 win seasons every year? No thanks. I'll take the titles and Harbaugh shenanigans if it translates to winning.
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