Michigan QBs through the last 3 seasons
Had some free time last night, and decide to go back to look at the QBs that have pass through Michigan the last 3 years.
In 2015, Harbaugh started at Michigan with:
-
Jr. Shane Morris - 4*, #3 PRO, #72 overall
- At Michigan: 47/92 (51%), 434 passing yards, 0 TDs, 5 INTs
- At CMU: 154/279 (55.9%), 1767 passing yards, 13 TDs, 11 INTs
-
RsFr. Wilton Speight - 3*, #23 PRO, #453 overall
- At Michigan: 257/437 (58.8%). 3192 passing yards, 23 TDs, 10 INTs
Add 2 transfers for 2015:
-
RsSr. Jake Rudock: 3*, #23 PRO, #627 overall
- At Iowa: 417/691 (60.3%), 4819 passing yards, 42 TDs, 18 INTs
- At Michigan: 249/389 (64%), 3017 passing yards, 24 TDs, 9 INTs
-
RsSo. John O'Korn: 3*, #32 PRO, #632 overall
-
At Houston: 349/619 (56.4%), 4068 passing yards, 36 TDs, 18 INTs
- AAC RoY (2013)
- At Michigan: 65/116 (56%), 736 passing yards, 3 TDs, 4 INTs
-
At Houston: 349/619 (56.4%), 4068 passing yards, 36 TDs, 18 INTs
Two QBs in Class of 2015:
-
Fr. Zach Gentry: 4*, #8 PRO, #175 overall
- At Michigan: 8 receptions, 134 yards, 1 TD
- Fr. Alex Malzone: 4*, #12 PRO, #292 overall
One QB in Class of 2016:
- Brandon Peters: 4*, #6 PRO, #64 overall
One QB in Class of 2017:
- Dylan McCaffrey: 4*, #5 PRO, #123 overall
Two QBs in Class of 2018 (tentatively):
- Joe Milton: 4*, #8 PRO, #168 overall
- Kevin Doyle: 3*, #21 PRO, #558 overall
Definitely fair to point out that 3/6 QBs (depending on what you consider transfers) on the 2015 roster were not handpicked by Harbaugh, but also that some of his mystique of being a "QB Whisperer" came from developing outside guys (i.e. Jake Rudock, Alex Smith). When Harbaugh first got into town and loaded up on 6 scholarship QBs, people were super confident that Harbaugh was setting up a dynasty of 1st round QBs.
Now after 3 seasons later with John O'Korn, Wilton Speight, and Alex Malzone, Speight is clearly the best of the bunch, and Alex Malzone has pretty much disappeared off the face of the Earth. I sometimes wonder if QB depth was in such bad shape, why didn't Gentry get more of a shot before moving to TE? It seems like McKeon, Eubanks, Wheatley, Bunting, and Hammering Panda would have been able to anchor the TE group without Gentry.
October 15th, 2017 at 5:05 PM ^
...JH hasn't done shit to 'develop' the QBs here at UofM:
- Ruddock didn't improve at UofM. His stats at Iowa were basically the same.
- Morris improved once he left UofM
- JOK is no better at UofM than he was at Houston
- Malzone has disappeared
- Gentry is now a TE
- Peters hasn't even seen the field
- McCaffrey
The data presented indicates that all of the QBs cited were ranked at 3* or better coming out of high school, and some had done reasonably well in college, but none of them have really 'delivered' here at UofM.
October 15th, 2017 at 5:12 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 5:17 PM ^
Iowa didn't want Rudock. Rudock played extremely well second half of season and in bowl game. So much so, that he got drafted. So Harbaugh took a cast off QB from Iowa to NFL. Speight was ascending for MOST of last season until his injury. I agree, something changed after his injury and has not been the same. It's unfortunate, as Speight was showing real promise until his injury. I would suggest that the data shows that Harbaugh is as advertised. Yes, the QB situation right now is a struggle. He has been putting together this offense with what he inherited for the most part. No one should think that every QB recruit is going to be Andrew Luck. I think Peters and other QB's will eventually evolve to be very good to great QB's under Harbaugh. Just give them time. When all is said and done. I think we will look back at this year and think this is one of Harbaugh's best seasons as a coach with how young and inexperienced Michigan is.
October 15th, 2017 at 11:07 PM ^
Agree.
The explosion of discourse exists precisely because it's NOT the QB that's the problem.
Luck is a coincidentally PERFECT example!
Sorrounded by trash the last few years and he looks like he's "regressed"--he hasn't.
It's the offense as a whole that has regressed, through graduation and youth.
Example: No one is complaining about Hammering Panda, "where's Khalid Hill?" "he sucks!" "what a regression!"
So, has K. Hill regressed? Obviously not. You just can't "get" the touchdowns, if you're not in a position to get them.
It's the same with our QB's (whoever they may be). If you can't block the defense, if you can't get open, and if you can't not fumble the ball, if you can't break tackles rushing, if you can't catch the ball wide-open and in your chest.
Then OF COURSE the QB is going to start dancing, making prayer-like throws, scrambling immediately, forcing interceptions, not trusting the system because they CAN'T!
And then everyone comes on here and complains about the "QB-development".
QB is ONE position, and it is a RESULT of proper execution of THE TEAM.
I love Tom Brady and all, but can you honestly tell me he would have accomplished what he's accomplished without Bill Belicheck's ability to FORM a team out of almost any roster?
Zero chance.
The QB's "performance" is a result of the team's previous execution (blocking, getting open, catching, running, etc.)
It's a t-e-a-m game.
Everything works in concert, or doesn't work at all.
From the O-line (blocking), to the RBs (fumbles/vision/breaking tackles), to the WR (dropped balls, getting open) it's made our QB have to scramble, throw prayers, and get out of rhythm.
The QB just takes all the blame (or praise) because they hold the ball while all the sucking is happening. They're the perp. The mule.
It's a team sport. Seriously.
October 16th, 2017 at 3:44 AM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 5:24 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 6:09 PM ^
plus, aside from not recruiting Speight himself, Malzone and O'Korn were late fliers (Coach Harbaugh came in very late in the 2015 recruiting cycle so he took Ruddock and had O'Korn transfer). Peters is only a redshirt freshman and McCaffrey is a true freshman, so to write them off already is illogical.
A lot of people talk about Andrew Luck. He redshirted and had a solid first year:
| Year | School | Conf | Class | Pos | G | Cmp | Att | Pct | Yds | Y/A | AY/A | TD | Int | Rate |
|---|
| 2009 | Stanford | Pac-10 | FR | QB | 12 | 162 | 288 | 56.3 | 2575 | 8.9 | 9.2 | 13 | 4 | 143.5 |
|---|
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/andrew-luck-1.html
But he had the luxury of having one of the best offensive lines in college and Toby Gerhart running for 1871 yards and 28 rushing TDs. Michigan obviously does not have that luxury right now and Coach Harbaugh probably doesn't want to throw in an unexperienced QB right now (look at O'Korn, he's a good athlete and does a good job getting away from pressure and a lot of times he doesn't have enough time to throw).
October 15th, 2017 at 7:23 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 5:25 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 5:39 PM ^
Jake Rudock was definitely an interesting one for me. I really don't watch that much Iowa football, and had always assumed that Rudock was absolutely awful at Iowa.
So it was a little surprising to see that he actually had average-to-decent stats there. From some of the articles/Iowa-related blogs from back in 2014, it almosts sounds like Jake Rudock (Round 6, #191) wasn't benched because he was terrible, but moreso because C.J. Beathard (Round 3, #104) was clearly better/had a higher ceiling.
Now on the other hand, it is a littler extreme to say that Rudock didn't improve any at Michigan. At Iowa, Rudock definitely had potential, but was also known to be wildly inconsistent, I think at Michigan Rudock gained more confidence in his innate abilities.
October 15th, 2017 at 10:09 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 10:19 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 5:07 PM ^
Peters can do at least what O'Korn did, and he has more potential (whatever that means). If he is worse than O'Korn than QB has so far been a failure for Harbaugh IMO.
October 15th, 2017 at 5:09 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 5:42 PM ^
The QB situation was in very bad shape. The MOST critical position of all. That is why he went for Okorn and Rudock. He knew it was going to be very difficult. Harbaugh got what he could and took Malzone, a Hoke recruit and recruited Gentry. If Harbaugh thought Gentry had a future as an elite QB that is where he would be playing right now. If Harbaugh thought Malzone gave Michigan the greatest chance to win, he would be starting right now.
At the time, everyone thought the Hoke Oline class from 5 years ago was going to be stellar. Well, that did not pan out as well as many of us thought.
Contrary what many have posted, I think Harbaugh has shown how great of a coach he really is. Unfortunately, due to OUR lofty expectations, the bar has been unreasonably high. And yes, I am guilty as anyone of expecting more in lieu of just appreciating his genius.
October 15th, 2017 at 5:09 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 5:28 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 6:04 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 6:46 PM ^
I'm not sure that is true. Zach Gentry was pretty commited to playing as a pro-style QB for Texas and he de-committed after they switched offensive coordinator/scheme. I even think Gentry has said himself a few times that he believed he was coming to Michigan to play QB, but doesn't mind the switch to TE at all.
The limited number of New Mexico Lobos fans have said that their coaching staff was doing their damnedest to land one of the best prospect out of New Mexico in ages, and really wanted him to be the future of the QB position.
October 15th, 2017 at 7:01 PM ^
Gentry was the best he could get in 2015. If you all recall, Harbaugh waited for end of NFL season to take Michigan job. Had a month to recruit. I put no stock in the 2015 class. If we get lucky on a few guys in that class, great, if not, I don't hold that class against him. In fact Keith Washington is transferring, Malzone has not played, Gentry moved to TE. If many of you recall, we had Mike Webber committed on signing day until when? We signed Higdon. I still like Higdon and happy he is here.
The jury is still out on Peters. Before we buy into much of the stuff written on these forums, lets wait and see how Peters, McCaffrey and other QB's pan out. Peters was the first that Harbaugh set his sights on early and signed. You want to measure Harbaugh on HIS recruits it starts with Peters.
October 15th, 2017 at 7:33 PM ^
I don't give a shit about "insider information" and mgoboard insights. Bottom line is O'Korn is extremely limited and Peters can't get a snap, meanwhile Josh Jackson is getting put on QB midseason award lists.
October 15th, 2017 at 5:10 PM ^
Would love to see what Harbaugh could do here with a dual threat qb.
October 16th, 2017 at 1:00 PM ^
As a Packers fan, I experienced this when Kaep destroyed us in the 2012 playoffs.
October 15th, 2017 at 5:36 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 5:53 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 5:58 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 7:28 PM ^
You would think QB would be a strength at UofM, given JH and his history. But it's not. It's probably the weakest position, with no real prospects of getting better next year, especially if one of the younger QBs doesn't see the field this year in order to gain some experience.
The stats in the OP just reinforce how bad the situation is and that is on JH.
If JH was a really good QB coach, how come we've seen no improvement in Speight & JOK?
I agree that Rudock was much better during the last half of his season with us, but I'm starting to think that improvement was because of HIM getting better, not because of how he was coached. Because, if it was the latter, why doesn't that translate to Speight & JOK?
October 15th, 2017 at 10:14 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 11:40 PM ^
2* into 5*
October 16th, 2017 at 12:59 PM ^
Uhh, perhaps it's because WS and JOK just aren't that good? You can only coach so much... even if you are the "Quarterback Whisperer". Unless Harbaugh's first 3 hand-picked QBs all flop, I'll still have faith in this.
October 15th, 2017 at 6:01 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 6:07 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 7:11 PM ^
So... where do we stand?
2017
-
Wilton Speight - Injured for the rest of the year...may be able to return for a bowl game? An average QB who did not get better after 1 full offseason as the starter.
2017 NCAA Football Rating: 77
-
John O'Korn - Bonafide #2 for not one, but TWO years. Meaning he's been better than Shane Morris, freshman Brandon Peters, and redshirt freshman Brandon Peters. He's wildly inconsistent, he's led two of the worst QB efforts we've seen at Michigan since Rich Rod's first year. He's had one very solid half versus Purdue.
He's shown some things early in his career at Houston...but he was benched there as well. Small sample size at Michigan, but doesn't seem to have the mental side down (getting team in/out of right plays, leadership, field vision). Harbaugh hasn't waivered on him since Speight's injury.
2017 NCAA Football Rating: 71
-
Brandon Peters - Hasn't beat out John O'Korn in two years. Harbaugh called it a 3-man race all summer and going into fall camp and immediately made it a 2-man race after just a few fall practices. Is it because he's not good enough? Is it because he didn't want Peters to transfer before the semester started? Peters got a few plays in mop-up duty against Purdue...didn't show anything other than he's an actual human being and not a figment of your imagination.
Everyone says he has the physical tools - I've heard from someone "in the know" that Harbaugh doesn't like the way he runs the team, commands the huddle, he doesn't have essentials Harbaugh feels a QB must have. He's not loud enough (Harbaugh actually said this himself in a presser), can't get in and out of plays, no fire/energy, not a leader, etc. - the big question...is the POTENTIAL still there or is he a bust?
2017 NCAA Football Rating: 66
-
Dylan McCaffrey - Redshirting. Came in rail thin. No one expected him to play before 2019. UMBig11 says he's ahead of Peters on the depth chart if it came to it. Is that because he's more vocal, does the little things Harbaugh demands, and shows more leadership or is it because he's actually the better QB? Two totally different things.
2017 NCAA Football Rating: 67
-
Alex Malzone - Counting the days until graduation. Best of luck to the young man.
2017 NCAA Football Rating: 61
2018
-
Wilton Speight - Back from injury - horray!!! Not named John O'Korn - horray!!! A 5th year senior with experience, leadership, stability - horray!!! Naturally going to improve and get better....*record stops*.
Speight should be the floor next year. Not the savior. He did not get ANY better from 2016 to 2017 - there is no evidence to suggest he'd get a lot better from 2017 to 2018.
2018 NCAA Football Rating: 79
-
Dylan McCaffrey - Huge unknown...can he make the jump? Was the weight the only thing holding him back? Because there's no reason if he was good enough he shouldn't have been in the mix in 2017 with Speight/O'Korn/Peters...that seems to suggest that he just wasn't good enough and it's more than just weight. Go look at the starting true freshman QBs at FSU and Texas - those guys don't weight any more than Dylan in 2017. He just wasn't (isn't) one of those impact freshman. He likely makes a jump, but will it be enough to pass Speight's experience? Doubt it. Not as a redshirt freshman. But if he can make a big jump, then another big jump 2018-2019...THEN we're in business.
2018 NCAA Football Rating: 75
-
Brandon Peters - Have to assume physically he continues to develop and he DID show physical improvement from year 1 to year 2. Is he going to get the other things Harbaugh demands? Those seems like things you either have or you get as an upperclassman. If he can't crack through in 2017 (Speight hurt/O'Korn below average)...that says A LOT.
2018 NCAA Football Rating: 72
-
Joe Milton - Boom or bust prospect. No real data. Likely redshirt.
2018 NCAA Football Rating (for shits and giggles): 67
-
Kevin Doyle - "High floor/Low ceiling" prospect. No real data. Likely redshirt.
2018 NCAA Football Rating (for shits and giggles): 66
So...after all that, I've got to live with going 3-3 with John O'Korn this year. Maybe blowing a game we should win because our defense has a bad game or can't hold up. Maybe winning a game we shouldn't win because O'Korn puts it together with some level of consistency.
Next year my hope is that Speight actually improves. But I shouldn't be confident in that...so my expectation is that we get 2017 Speight, again in 2018.
In 2019, I have to have hope that McCaffrey, Peters, and/or Milton have huge jumps into the "80s" and we're finally comfortable with our QB situation. Sweet.
I'll see you all in 2019. Kidding. But at least I'll know where my expectations are so I won't be AS diappointed and I can be pleasently surprised.
October 15th, 2017 at 7:28 PM ^
October 16th, 2017 at 8:46 AM ^
I really hope either RS Sophomore Peters or RS Fresman McCaffery starts next season over Speight. I really don't see a 5th year senior jump coming from Speight, and I would think that it reflects very poorly on the QB scouting/recruiting if neither of the back-ups is ready to overtake Speight by next season.
October 15th, 2017 at 6:51 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 6:54 PM ^
To suddenly blossom into a starter next year. Hoping that D Mac bulks up and can get into the rotation next year early (who's starting???) and who knows maybe Milton won't red shirt (unlikely).
My hope is that this will be the last season under Harbaugh where we really underperform at QB. We gotta back up what Don Brown's doing on defense.
GO BLUE!!
October 15th, 2017 at 6:56 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 7:07 PM ^
If we ran a zone read offense where Okorn only had to make 1-2 reads I think this team would be looking at 10-2.
Harbaugh however wants to build an offensive system and I remember Chip Kelly saying that when trying to establish a culture you go all in and dont change your system to suit personel because it will bite you later on down the line.
October 15th, 2017 at 7:12 PM ^
Same Chip who's on ESPN2? That Chip?
Kidding. Kind of.
October 15th, 2017 at 10:21 PM ^
Chip is a good coach and im an Eagles fan. Plenty of good coaches are a couple of bad seasons away from being in the booth
October 15th, 2017 at 10:23 PM ^
I know...that's why I'm kidding. It's not his fault that he and Mack Brown are side by side.
October 16th, 2017 at 3:16 AM ^
/s
October 15th, 2017 at 8:10 PM ^
Re: Gentry, I think his upside as a TE is in the stratosphere His upside at QB is likely much lower.
My $0.02.
October 15th, 2017 at 9:18 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 10:28 PM ^
This makes no sense.
John O'Korn has all the physical tools. How is that working out?
There is something to be said about the mental side and running a team. We should know...we watched Jake Rudock for a year.
Jake doesn't have the arm of O'Korn or Peters. He's not as mobile as either. Both John and Brandon are physically more gifted than Jake.
But Jake had some things that O'Korn hasn't shown and it sounds like Peters doesn't have yet.
If you put the mental side of Jake Rudock in John O'Korn or Brandon Peters we'd be undefeated #5 in the country on our way to Happy Valley to whoop Penn St. - proabbly on the road to a National Championship appearance.
But now we're really getting away from it.
October 15th, 2017 at 9:44 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 9:56 PM ^
October 15th, 2017 at 10:18 PM ^