Michigan DT Recruiting - Not a Single Rivals.com 2020 Top-50 DT?
Source: https://n.rivals.com/position_rankings/football/2020/DT
Rivals is just one piece of the recruiting industry landscape, I realize, but let's just use its data for the time being.
A big, gap-plugging DT is critical for EACH AND EVERY class from here on out. I don't care if he's a 5-11 'tweener with short arms but great leverage. Wisconsin will NEVER change their strategy / identity. OSU just followed their blueprint. Others will look to do the same if we have great speed on the outside (LB, Safety level) but no anchor. This is a critical time for Coach Harbaugh. Coach Harbaugh routinely has/offers a QB each and every class, regardless of depth or numbers. Which is smart. The absolute SAME has to be done for a gap plugging DT.
Alabama has 4... yes, 4 (!) of the top 50 DTs in the nation for 2020 according to this list. Nebraska has two. Frickin' Notre Dame has a kid ranked #25 and a four-star. Stanford comes in at #44 ranked. There is simply no excuse. I don't care if he's a three-star project. We need size at this position and we need to take one each and every year if the B10 "cross over" is always going to be Michigan-Wisconsin or Michigan-Minnesota and then that sledgehammer at the end of the season. This is just dumb. Hoke didn't do much right but he prioritized the line and this area as well. See Willie Henry. See others. Chris Wormley, etc. Heck even Indiana has a prospect committed on this list!
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:03 PM ^
Willie Henry was a low 3-star. Hoke did a better job of developing DL talent than he did of recruiting top talent.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:07 PM ^
Agree, he was a project. Most of the recruits past the top-30 are! And that's fine! But there is simply no reason Notre Dame and Stanford and Scott Frost's Nebraska have legit DT commits in 2020 but Michigan doesn't. We should be taking one each and every class.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:45 PM ^
HOT TAKE: We should hire Hoke as a DL Coach and Mike Hart as RB Coach
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:57 PM ^
Charbonnet broke the school's freshman TD record and Haskins developed out of nowhere, but we need to replace the RB Coach because his last name is Harbaugh?
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:16 PM ^
Having Jay is a huge advantage in recruit. He has done fine and works like a dog, doing alot of recruit gopher work. But if he goes, Is love to see Hart...we need an edge here. Adnt I would love to see Hoke because he recruits the DL very well, and recruits Ohio well too. We gotta get back into Ohio. Start the narrative of OSU taking so many out of staters and get tons of Ohio's players..and you'll see the narrative flip after we win with them.
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:03 PM ^
What makes Mike Hart qualified to be the RBs coach other than he played at Michigan? Seriously, it's thinking like that that keeps this program back. Just hire the best people. If Mike Hart is the best available RB coach on the market and we're in need of one, great. But he's probably not and Indiana's rushing attack the three years he's been there has not been anything great.
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:53 PM ^
Michigan lost the game because the defense was a sieve not due to the RB play.
December 3rd, 2019 at 7:11 PM ^
Just would love to see a few take it to the house guys !
December 4th, 2019 at 2:33 PM ^
Charbonnet was PFF HM All B1G behind Taylor and Dobbins. He’s doing fine. And many on here thought Haskins was better. Not sure how ppl are angry with the RB coach.
The run game sucked cus our QB wouldn’t keep and teams kept 7-8 in the box.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:44 PM ^
Actually when Hoke was the DL coach at UM in the 90s the DL was solid. He’s a very good DL coach.
December 3rd, 2019 at 7:21 PM ^
Hoke has a lot of faults, but when it comes his position, he knew how to find big boys or guys about to be big boys and got the most of them. Mattison (much as we hate him now) probably had a lot to do with that as well.
I would not be opposed at all to Hoke coming back as D-Line coach. Hell, let him rally the troops before the Ohio game as well. He always did that pretty good too.
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:13 PM ^
I’ve been saying to hire Hart for the last 4 years
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:26 PM ^
Neither one beat OSU
December 3rd, 2019 at 7:15 PM ^
Hoke did beat OSU, it was just their shittiest team in about 30 years.
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:29 PM ^
How would Hoke, being a former head coach at Michigan, deal with being just a defensive line coach, and does he have a good working relationship and friendship with Harbaugh?
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:57 PM ^
Hoke, a former head coach at San Diego State, returned to be just a defensive line coach at San Diego State.
December 3rd, 2019 at 7:24 PM ^
Maybe he deals with it the same way Mattison dealt with being demoted by Harbaugh from DC to defensive line coach.
December 7th, 2019 at 7:49 AM ^
I think he would probably do it, depending on how the administration handled his firing. He grew up loving Michigan, was on staff in 97, and as I understand it the Hoke families and Harbaugh families are friends. Frankly, I think it would be a great hire.
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:31 PM ^
HOT TAKE #2: When Don Brown leaves promote Partridge to DC
December 4th, 2019 at 1:16 PM ^
Brady Hoke shouldn't come within ten miles of Washtenaw county.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:04 PM ^
I'll save you the in-depth research. We don't have a DT in the class period. We don't lead or are in the running for a DT in 2020. They aren't taking one.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:06 PM ^
What about Denver Warren??
Oh, wait
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:09 PM ^
Fair enough, but seems insane. Definition of insanity is running out to play Wisconsin or OSU and have no girth in the middle to plug the gaps.
I'd settle for a Vince Wilfork mini me at this point.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:15 PM ^
I don't necessarily agree with this but it seems like we'll see see Hinton (burned redshirt this year) and Mazi (redshirting) be the 1-2 punch at DT and then they'll play 2-3 other DEs. Maybe they think they can bulk up Hutchinson a bit more and play him in a tweener role? There's other bullets in the chamber as well that are somewhere between a DE and Nose Tackle size, and my guess is they'll roll with tweeners and more speed on the D-Line and try to play with just one of Smith/Hinton at a time. Not sure on Kemp's status, and Jeter is back to back them up. Maybe Paea emerges after not being flip flopped for an offseason?
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:09 PM ^
Wouldn't be surprised to see guys like Gabe Newburg or Mike Morris move inside to DT/3-Tech. Morris especially looks like a guy to me that you could hang 40 lbs on and get him up to 300+. Newburg could be a disruptive 3-tech - both guys came in as ends, but I don't think they have the athleticism required to rush the edge in this scheme.
Agreed with your overall premise though, we need a steady pipeline of guys that are coming in plug the middle of the defense and eat blocks. You can't run a defense out there with ends and 3-techs lined up over the football or teams like Ohio and Wisconsin will blow you right off the ball... as we have seen.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:12 PM ^
Just because they have Hinton and Smith, doesnt mean that they will have any depth and we dont know how those 2 will develop. Jeter was terrible this year. Need to take two tackles this class. Where was this staff during the summer recruiting season?
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:23 PM ^
I think Italy? Or was it Australia?
Either way this year's gala to some exotic destination was I'm sure chocked full of many prospective defensive tackles.
December 4th, 2019 at 5:33 AM ^
Numerous players and recruits have specifically mentioned the trips as one of the draws to Michigan. It's a brilliant move by Harbaugh, as it is a way inside the rules to provide something that recruits and players notice and value.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:12 PM ^
We literally have the son of a 2 time all pro Defensive Tackle committed, miss me with that Vince Wilfork mini me bullshit. Outside the top 5-10 players, defensive tackle is a fluky position to recruit. Most of the guys are already pretty massive, and it's really hard to find 315 pound dudes that move well. It's easier to get SDE's with good frames and put weight on them. Jerry Tillery, Malik McDowell, Jeffrey Simmons and Vita Via were all SDEs in HS. Quinnen Williams was for most of the cycle, he was a generous 265 pounds. Taven Bryan was an OT. Over half of the first rounders at DT over the last few years were another position in high school. Dre'mont Jones, Trysten Hill both ends. Go back to 2016, and almost every big time DT taken was a DE in HS. Chris Jones, Robert Nkemdiche, Sheldon Rankins, Vernon Butler, and Adam Gotsis were ends. Straight up, recruiting SDE's with great frames and moving them in is better. Guys play DT because theyre way too big, or not athletic enough to play DE in high school, so unless you have a massive dude with incredible athleticism (probably going to Alabama or Clemson), DT's are way riskier than SDEs
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:04 PM ^
Trust the coaches!
That sure hasn't aged well.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:44 PM ^
Oh it'll come back in a few months when a kid committs early in cycle who is unranked on any of the recruiting services.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:46 PM ^
The Annual Benjamin St-Juste Memorial Trust The Coaches Commitment.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:06 PM ^
Chris Wormley was a SDE recruit who finished his career at Michigan as a SDE.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:06 PM ^
This is exactly right. I've thought the same thing. We need two a year, of proper size, even if are 3 stars.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:11 PM ^
I am fine with taking projects at DT and OL once the depth has been established. Especially "true" DT. Why not? Why not take at least one kid a year? There are plenty! Alabama is doing this! Hell -- Nebraska is doing this! We can't get one? Makes no sense. The kid could be situational for all I care. We simply can't have a 220 pound LB lining up over the ball again (as was the case in GOAL LINE vs Wisconsin).
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:11 PM ^
I am fine with taking projects at DT and OL once the depth has been established. Especially "true" DT. Why not? Why not take at least one kid a year? There are plenty! Alabama is doing this! Hell -- Nebraska is doing this! We can't get one? Makes no sense. The kid could be situational for all I care. We simply can't have a 220 pound LB lining up over the ball again (as was the case in GOAL LINE vs Wisconsin).
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:16 PM ^
Took two good ones last year in Smith/Hinton. Struck out on the top two this year. Bresee was a guy Michigan went after, but you can't fault him for going to Clemson. Justin Rogers said he wants to get paid and went to Kentucky.
Mazi Smith redshirted, so it's like we took one in 2018/19 and one in 2019/20.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:21 PM ^
Neither Rogers nor McCall is getting paid to go to UK. If that was the case they'd be going deep South where they'd command a lot of money. Vince Marrow and Steve Clinkscale are just out-recruiting Michigan in Michigan. You may not like it; it may make you feel good to think otherwise but it's true.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:32 PM ^
You really think UK doesn't know how to pay players? Calipari says hi.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:40 PM ^
All I was saying was he tweeted out "I want to get paid" and ended up in the $EC.
I do not think Rogers and McCall would have ever gone to Michigan. They had MSU written all over them until that universities horrid practices finally caught up with them.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:16 PM ^
Cute. You were likely the last holdout on the existence of Santa Clause in your 3rd grade homeroom.
December 3rd, 2019 at 7:07 PM ^
Hopefully we'll get two more next year. I'm thinking Tywone Malone and Victory Vaka, two true DTs.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:08 PM ^
Here’s to hoping Hinton and Mazi Smith pay off and soon.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:11 PM ^
I agree with you. The fact they aren’t even leading with guys who are three stars is concerning. There must be someone out there that Nua and the staff feel they can develop into a serviceable to very good DT
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:16 PM ^
I mean then they take guys that they don't want to as a reach and when they transfer out people act like the sky is falling.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:18 PM ^
Defensive linemen between 2019-2020
Chris Hinton - 5 star - 31 overall
Mazi Smith - 4 star - 105 overall
Braiden McGregor - 4 star - 107 overall
David Ojabo - 4 star - 314 overall
Mike Morris - 3 star - 396 overall
Aaron Lewis - 3 star - 448 overall
Kris Jenkins - 3 star - 502 overall
Gabe Newburg - 3 star - 773 overall
Hinton, Smith, McGregor, Morris, Lewis, Jenkins and Newburg all have potential to play inside.
We also have ten offensive linemen between the two classes. I have to believe we will be okay.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:59 PM ^
Jenkins is the ace in the hole here... He will end up jumbo sized like his dad.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:03 PM ^
The 2016 defense line was the best we've had in my thirty something lifetime, and that line didn't have a true planet sized nose tackle. What we need is depth more than anything
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:24 PM ^
D-line OSU commits, the same two years, just for comparison's sake...
Zach Harrison - 5 star - 12 overall
Jacolbe Cowen - 4 star - 166 overall
Darrion Henry - 4 star - 168 overall
Noah Potter - 4 star - 334 overall
Ty Hamilton - 3 star - 749 overall
Jaden Mckenzie - 3 star - 765 overall
UM's two-year haul is clearly on par with this. Wonder what other position groups look like...
December 4th, 2019 at 1:40 AM ^
I thought this is only about D tackles.