Michigan’s Mazi Smith was going 50 in a 25, had loaded gun and ammunition in pocket during traffic stop and arrest, records show
December 6th, 2022 at 5:02 PM ^
Then there's Plaxico Burress.
December 6th, 2022 at 6:27 PM ^
No
many people with CPL carry and that’s just fine with me,
and the law
December 6th, 2022 at 4:01 PM ^
I dont know of any gun range that allows you to roll in and out with a gun and ammo in your pocket, but apparently others here do.
December 6th, 2022 at 5:57 PM ^
When? Whenever you are lawfully licensed/entitled to do so while being fully aware of your rights, restrictions, limitations, and obligations.
December 6th, 2022 at 6:26 PM ^
All the time?
I dunno I stopped carrying years ago but I don’t blame those who carry 24-7 either
December 6th, 2022 at 2:01 PM ^
I'm sure we can have a spirited debate about 2A gun ownership , reasonable magazine size,
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
December 6th, 2022 at 2:35 PM ^
Now do "WELL REGULATED"
December 6th, 2022 at 2:51 PM ^
Borrowed off another comment, wish I recall who posted it to give proper credit.
"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789
December 6th, 2022 at 3:23 PM ^
Out of curiosity (and from a demeanor of civil discourse), are you using these quotes to say that there should be no regulation of firearms?
I'm a gun owner, CPL holder, and been around guns most of my life. I'm a strong believer in sensible gun laws and responsible gun ownership. To me, that means regulation.
*not accusing you of not being a responsible gun owner, just to be clear*
December 6th, 2022 at 3:45 PM ^
I am not.... the term "well regulated" was cited, as if to say the 2nd Amendment was intended for militia, not individuals....
These three quotes, from founders, indicate that the second amendment was indeed written for the rights of individuals.
December 6th, 2022 at 4:20 PM ^
...but at the time, those restrictions on government only applied to the feds.
States could ban firearms, have an official religion, etc.
December 6th, 2022 at 6:38 PM ^
it was me Booted.
the founding fathers were highly intelligent people: they wrote things in a way they could not be misinterpreted, without obvious intent. They were creating a new and unique county. There’s no way they were just lazily writing things in an unclear manner.
2A is written very clearly (if you understand English) to say, in layman’s terms, we have the right to own and keep guns in case the need arises to form a well regulated militia. How can you form a “well regulated” militia in a time of need if NO ONE knows how to clean, shoot, operate, etc.
any other “reading” or “understanding” of it is either anti-gun sentiment or pure ignorance.
you don’t have to like the 2A. Hell you can try to get 3/4 of the stars to ratify to remove it. but folks (not you Booted) dont have to lie to people about it’s intentions.
December 7th, 2022 at 8:32 AM ^
Thx JR.... and very well articulated......
December 6th, 2022 at 4:27 PM ^
I promise this does not mean what you think it means.
December 6th, 2022 at 4:35 PM ^
Different statements & clauses.
December 6th, 2022 at 6:34 PM ^
Ok. I’ll bite.
Being in a well regulated militia isn’t a requirement to own guns. The founding fathers have written about this ad nauseum.
the ability to form a well regulated militia means that the common citizen needs to have access to, and knowledge of, firearms. can’t form a well regulated militia if no one is armed.
the 2A guarantees our right to own and bear firearms in case a militia is needed. it absolutely does NOT mean “you have to be in a well regulated militia to own or carry a gun.” that is an anti-gun interpretation of one of the most important amendments to guarantee our freedom. the people that wrote the 2A have explained this in numerous writings
December 6th, 2022 at 3:33 PM ^
Can't wait to find out which "well regulated militia" he is part of.
December 6th, 2022 at 3:46 PM ^
The citizens of The Untied States of America, militia
December 6th, 2022 at 2:02 PM ^
I find it curious that we as a society are ok with anyone and everyone toting guns but apparently the amount of ammo they have on them changes whether or not carrying said weapon is ok?
I agree that he made at least a couple of poor decisions here but I just don't get why it matters if he had 1 bullet on him or 70.
December 6th, 2022 at 6:44 PM ^
it doesn’t tbh
December 6th, 2022 at 2:03 PM ^
I also get why a young black man might not want to have a firearm on his person when pulled over by a police officer for speeding
Yes, given the circumstances with black people and police violence, I actually think this is not only justified, but a very smart survival skill.
I just don't think this story has "escalated" otherwise at all with these details coming out. The only really dangerous thing he did was driving that fast on King George which is a residential street. But a college kid speeding is just normal stupid college stuff in my view.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:03 PM ^
I would also rather not have a gun on my person during a routine traffic stop and I'm white. I feel like that's just a good idea.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:04 PM ^
Upvoted because your argument is sound.
I drive every day in a zone that is 25 miles per hour because it is residential. If you are driving 50 in a 25 then you are driving recklessly and you could potentially kill a pedestrian.
I dont think Mazi should have been suspended for simply have a firearm concealed that he would have had a license for in two days but BOTH issues warrant some kind of suspension.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:23 PM ^
Yeah, regardless of the gun thing, going 50 in a 25 is very dangerous. I walk my dog daily in a residential area that is 25. A car coming at your twice as fast as expected is very dangerous.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:30 PM ^
Yeah, maybe it's because a kid at my kid's school was recently hit by someone zooming down a residential street at 40-ish miles per hour but I have absolutely zero tolerance for someone being dangerous in a residential area. It's 9:30 am on a Friday; there are people out there walking around and not expecting a huge truck to barrel down the street at 50 miles per hour.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:24 PM ^
I don’t really think speeding is something you should be suspended from the football team for. Even if you think he deserves some sort of consequences for it, there are tons of options that don’t include suspension. I’m sure one of those options is an adequate punishment for a traffic violation.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:48 PM ^
Driving 25+ over the speed limit isn't merely speeding - it qualifies for a reckless driving charge in Michigan.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:28 PM ^
Yeah, it's more that the situation looks a bit darker/dangerous than it did when the initial reports were "had a firearm he was in the process of getting licensed". If it had literally been only that I wouldn't have cared on iota or expected any punishment.
Again, I'm not saying the guy should be booted from the team but UM's AD has had a spotty record with how they handle some situations and this feels like one where had they been more forceful at the outset it wouldn't feel quite so weird how it's playing out.
December 6th, 2022 at 3:01 PM ^
So, every student at the university is suspended based on their personal life. I don't know if the school will know these things. May be they do...m
December 6th, 2022 at 2:04 PM ^
I think it's entirely appropriate to put a gun out of reach for a traffic stop. For the safety of the officer and the driver. Seems like a simple action to remove any potential to escalate the interaction (which guns have a habit of doing when dealing with the police).
And the fact that he plainly told the officer he had a gun in the vehicle indicated he wasn't hiding anything.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:11 PM ^
I agree with this and would Add if he was transporting a legally owned gun to the range the vehicle should be considered a”dwelling” and therefore he was within his rights to transport the item and should not have been arrested at all.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:25 PM ^
If you've got evidence he was transporting a firearm to a firing range have at it but a car is not considered a "dwelling" unless the individual spend some or all his/her time actually living in it (e.g a motorhome).
December 6th, 2022 at 2:37 PM ^
I got no evidence whatsoever friend, just an opinion from the information presented. Feel free to not agree with it.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:22 PM ^
Again, I'm totally fine with him moving the firearm. It's probably the least problematic part of that entire situation. But just something that was noted in the article.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:05 PM ^
Like mom always said, nothing good happens after... 9:15am?
Speeding is unrelated to the gun charge, except for it being why he got pulled over.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:05 PM ^
If it was 230am I’d look at it differently but at 930 am and with what he was carrying sounds like a guy that bought a new handgun and was going to the range to practice/familiarize himself. It’s comical to see reporters that have no knowledge of a subject try to spin it to fit a narrative which will be more sensational. Saying things like a “large amount” and not “standard” magazine size give the “reporter” and their intentions away.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:20 PM ^
Again you're inserting additional facts to this situation to make it more palpable for you, which is ironic given the fact you then lambaste the reporter for having "no knowledge of a subject try to spin it to fit a narrative". He's going 50 in a 25 mile residential zone. I'm not sure about the legality of a firing range letting someone use an unlicensed or in-process licensed firearm but there's no evidence that was his plan at the moment. A 30-round magazine in a handgun is non-standard size for everyday use; again if he's going to a firing range to try it out then so be it but again we have no evidence that was the intent.
Feel free to argue whatever you want but this 100% screams partisan rationalization because he's a UM player. If this fact pattern emerged for an MSU or OSU player I'm fairly certain nobody here would be defending his so vociferously.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:29 PM ^
I don’t think I did that at least wasn’t my intention as a matter of discussion I’m providing a alternate viewpoint. Who decided what a “ standard” magazine is? For all you know he bought the gun and that’s what it came with. I’m not an expert on Michigan firearm laws. In the state I reside in your can posses a firearm in home and transport to range and back for practice without ccp, the ccp is if you were to carry it on your person in a public setting. And let’s be honest there are those that see gun and immediately think evil or sinister which is a bias in its own right in my opinion.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:44 PM ^
Well, in the state of Michigan you aren't supposed to have a loaded firearm in your vicinity even with a CCP. And as someone who presumably was in the process of getting a license Smith should know that. I know in reality people drive around with loaded firearms but that's sort of beyond the point here because Smith didn't even have a valid license yet and, for reasons I don't quite get, he didn't appear to be heading toward a firing range despite you keep insinuating he may have been. Also, the discussion around the standard magazine size aside that's still a lot of ammo to have on your person driving around a residential area at 9:30 am.
Again, Smith got caught breaking a couple of laws and it isn't beyond the pale for the AD to have done something more than say "no biggie, we don't care". I'm not asking him to be sent to the Hague or anything but the fact pattern around this situation has shifted from "had an unlicensed gun" to "had a loaded, unlicensed gun with 50 rounds on his person while speeding in a residential area at 9:30 am" and it's not unreasonable to think that the AD should have come down a bit harsher.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:54 PM ^
Hey man I’ll take your argument and it’s points.
But your doing the same thing I am by suggesting there are defensible data points for consideration by focusing on the magazine size and ammunition and trying to draw conclusions something sinister was going on my point in this is there are two sides to that argument and this isn’t a political thing at all just a situational one. The article uses a lot of buzzwords that get people going and I don’t like that. I’m thinking about the tunnel stuff “reporters” can use loaded terms to sway an argument the Justice system called it an assault the initial”reporter” called it a scuffle.
December 6th, 2022 at 2:55 PM ^
"Well, in the state of Michigan you aren't supposed to have a loaded firearm in your vicinity even with a CCP. "
What?
If you have a CPL - you can drive, walk around, etc. with a loaded firearm in your pocket. There are certain places (bars, schools, etc.) where you aren't allowed to carry... but outside of that, if you have your CPL you can totally have a loaded firearm on you almost all the time.
You seem to have no idea how MI firearm laws work.
Guns ARE NOT licensed.
Carrying your gun appropriately to and from the range requires no approval or licensing at all.
Carrying a loaded gun around out in the open (open carry) is perfectly legal with no license.
Only PEOPLE (not guns) are licensed - and it only applies to CONCEALED carry.
December 6th, 2022 at 3:15 PM ^
Sorry, meant to say in your vicinity in a vehicle and since Smith didn't have a license he can't have it in his vicinity in said vehicle.
Also, this ongoing discussion that Smith was going to or from a shooting range is pure speculation; there's no evidence that's the case. If it was then so be it but in that case Smith, again lacking a CPL, should have had the firearm unloaded and not reachable by him at the time.
I'll admit to not being an expert on MI gun law but you are also creating a different fact pattern than what actually happened here.
December 6th, 2022 at 3:30 PM ^
"since Smith didn't have a license he can't have it in his vicinity in said vehicle."
Yes, he can.
It would have to be unloaded, separated from the ammo, and in a case or broken down to be legal though.
...but you can legally have an unloaded, cased gun sitting on your passenger seat.
December 6th, 2022 at 3:45 PM ^
See the law isn’t so clear and is still open to interpretation (in my experience as it applies to this information “vicinity” would be defined as anywhere reasonably within arms reach, excluding anything locked such as a glovebox or portable safe) I think Jim said he was going to wait for the process to play out before any discipline and believed it would I think he understood the situation and was most likely explained an interpretation of the laws by Michigan legal. The range thing as it come from me is speculative and based on what what I’ve seen brought to a range and the time frames.
if he’s simply guilty of not removing the magazine from the firearm before transporting I do think that’s small potatoes.
December 6th, 2022 at 3:31 PM ^
Story was amended to remove the reference to a loaded firearm. His attorney says the gun was not loaded. If the latter is true, then he likely didn’t break any law other than speeding. And it doesn’t appear the officer actually clocked him but rather estimated the speed based on the police report.
Potentially reckless driving aside, I think it all boils down to a person’s POV on gun ownership. Some people are alarmed by terms like Glock, clips, 50 rounds of ammunition; some people see those same terms as just a hobby or set of tools for protection.
if the story involved a 21-year old baseball player from the UP who had 2 shotguns, 40 shells and a 10-inch hunting knife on his pickup seat when pulled over at 5 am supposedly driving to duck hunt … some people would yawn and others would recoil just because of firearms.
December 6th, 2022 at 3:45 PM ^
Yes, just saw the update to the story. So if it's unloaded then that's good for him and turns down the temperature a bit.
The gun ownership issue is less of a thing for me at this point; yes I think it's dumb for your average person to have a firearm generally speaking but that's a personal take and if people are responsible gun owners so be it. But I do think the context of him speeding through residential streets with a firearm near him with his CPL is an issue.
December 6th, 2022 at 4:00 PM ^
". If the latter is true, then he likely didn’t break any law other than speeding."
Carrying an unloaded pistol in your car without a CPL is illegal.
To be legal the gun has to be unloaded AND one of the following:
1) In a case
2) Broken down
3) Somewhere inaccessible from the vehicle interior
December 6th, 2022 at 4:08 PM ^
I learned something new about MI law and stand corrected. Then he likely did break a firearm law regardless of the permit situation.
December 6th, 2022 at 4:02 PM ^
But the initial bombastic story is still what everyone will remember…irresponsible “journalism”
December 6th, 2022 at 4:10 PM ^
Agree. We live in a world of clickbait > true journalism …