Livers v Tillman
Simpson v Winston is a rivalry. We hear how they first played against each other in the 4th grade. X was Mr. Basketball in Ohio and Cash in MI. Then there was the recruitment with X ending up at Michigan and Cash at State followed by 4 years of more games.
We don't hear about Livers and Tillman like that. Why not? Both are the same year, one Mr. Basketball the other the runnerup. One went here, one went there. Three years of games so far. Almost seems like a more naturally rivalry then X v C yet it doesn't seem to be viewed like that.
February 18th, 2020 at 8:48 AM ^
I would say its probably because they don't play the same position and typically don't compete against each other 1 on 1 during a game the way Winston and X do.
February 18th, 2020 at 12:06 PM ^
I mean, for all intents and purposes, Tillman plays as a center and matches up against Teske, so you're not wrong. But.... he is always listed as a "F" just like Livers on any credible roster or starting lineup. They're also within 1" of height and 15 lbs. of each other, so it's not like they're dramatically different players. Actually, I think Tillman's ability to play outside has been the difference in MSU's last 3 wins against us. (Yes, Winston, I know, but those Tillman 3pt daggers hurt and force help to stay on the perimeter instead of collapsing on Winston.) I LOVED that Izzo played Ward over him last year - Ward getting hurt directly cost UM one of the games.
February 18th, 2020 at 3:34 PM ^
They're also within 1" of height and 15 lbs. of each other, so it's not like they're dramatically different players.
They may not have dramatically different measurables, but they are indeed dramatically different players. Both in what their strengths are and what their respective teams ask them to do. The OP may be able to argue that you COULD compare the two, but it seems like there is plenty of evidence backing up why their lack of comparisons shouldn’t be a surprise.
February 18th, 2020 at 1:06 PM ^
Yes, and Livers and Tillman are defense first guys that are more role players than the ball-dominant guards that Cash and Simpson are.
Winston and Simpson have also been the vocal leaders and faces of their respective teams. Livers and Tillman have been secondary in terms of leadership despite being better pro prospects. Livers didn't even start last year.
February 18th, 2020 at 8:51 AM ^
Inquiring minds want to know.....
February 18th, 2020 at 8:54 AM ^
I thought there'd be stats??
February 18th, 2020 at 12:07 PM ^
We always THINK there will be stats with board posts but let's be honest - sorely disappointed on that front most of the time
February 18th, 2020 at 8:54 AM ^
The team, the team, the team.
February 18th, 2020 at 9:03 AM ^
Foster Loyer and Brandon Johns finished 1-2 for Mr Basketball in 2018. I don't think we're going to hear a lot about their rivalry either.
February 18th, 2020 at 9:38 AM ^
All five finalists are in the B1G. Loyer, Johns, DeJulius, Marcus Bingham, and Trevion Williams. I think the last four are probably going to be pretty good B1G players. The one that won? Probably not.
February 18th, 2020 at 9:43 AM ^
Yeah right now I’d say Trevion Williams is dominating that group. Still 2 years left though, and Williams may not stay for both...
February 18th, 2020 at 9:55 AM ^
Juwann vs Izzo.
I know they don’t play the same position but dang I would pay to see them go one on one.
February 18th, 2020 at 10:05 AM ^
Juwanna Mann vs. To Wong Foo Thanks for Everything. I wouldn't pay to see that.
February 18th, 2020 at 12:42 PM ^
Thanks man. Am sitting eating lunch while waiting for my food, in Puerto Rico and that made me laugh.
February 18th, 2020 at 1:31 PM ^
Sounds gluttonous.
February 18th, 2020 at 9:05 AM ^
Foster Loyer is a rec player
February 18th, 2020 at 9:31 AM ^
Be nice, he just hasn't hit his growth spurt yet.
February 18th, 2020 at 10:20 AM ^
Maybe he will shortly...
February 18th, 2020 at 10:20 AM ^
Loyer looks like the creepy kid, from down the street, that everyone avoids like the plague...and a bit like the “artsy” brother in Wedding Crashers.
February 18th, 2020 at 11:29 AM ^
A prototypical "weird guy"
February 18th, 2020 at 10:22 AM ^
I don't recall where I read it, maybe in one of the "Izzo on the way out" threads. However, some poster wrote or linked that Tillman wanted to come to Michigan, but there wasn't a scholarship or room for him. As fans, we forget that not every player gets to go to the school where they want to go. Of course I 100% approve of the positive change in recruiting, with Howard going after guys at the top, 5 star kids from all over the country. The sad reality is that this means there is less room or no room for some great local players who want to go to Michigan.
February 18th, 2020 at 12:57 PM ^
Sort of related, but this dynamic is similar to Michigan's overall admissions pattern. Many in-state students would love to go here and are qualified, but the national and international appeal of the school squeezes out a lot of great local kids in favor of top kids from outside the state (with their out-of-state tuition)
February 18th, 2020 at 3:55 PM ^
In-state students still have an easier chance of getting admitted than out-of-state though.
February 18th, 2020 at 10:32 AM ^
Semi-OT, but does anyone else find themselves lacking a dislike for specific MSU players this year? Of course, there is still a disdain for the program and athletic department as a whole and seeing the midget on the sideline bitching at the refs and his own players for entire games still drives me crazy, but the individual players on the Spartan team this year seem to be generally good guys.
They don't seem to have a Draymond/Valentine/Forbes/Ward type of individual this year that runs his mouth or just has a real punchable face (McQuaid). I have always liked Winston's game (sans the pushoffs and falling down on drives to the basket) and Tillman seems like an all around nice dude. Outside of those two, everyone else on their roster seems somewhat "meh" when it comes to likability.
Anyone else feel this way, or am I just getting softer as I age?
February 18th, 2020 at 10:54 AM ^
Seems like a good group of guys. You still have the Izzo factor.
February 18th, 2020 at 11:03 AM ^
Yeah, I agree. Winston sounds like a good guy, not just a good player and I like Langford too. They aren't making Izzo any more likable though.
February 18th, 2020 at 11:06 AM ^
The last guy like that for me was the one who looked like Stork from Animal House. Was that McQuaid?
February 18th, 2020 at 11:16 AM ^
McQueff was a giant lump of shit. Fuck that guy
February 18th, 2020 at 3:10 PM ^
Neckbeard McQueff
February 18th, 2020 at 11:25 AM ^
So it's not just me. After the UM-Staee game, I posted to mention a peculiar reaction I'd felt, that despite the rivalry, Tillman seemed like a good dude. Like someone who might be — should be? — on Michigan's team.
Usually, rivalry bias has me seeing many opposing player as jerks, with a few of them maybe acceptable. But my gut reaction after the game was that Tillman would be a good fit as a Michigan guy.
February 18th, 2020 at 12:48 PM ^
I read on Victors board I think that Tillamns mom played for us, and that he wanted to come here but Beilien chose Livers and couldn't take both.
February 18th, 2020 at 3:43 PM ^
If it’s true that Tillman wanted to come to uofm, then Beilein made a mistake. It would have been worth processing someone for him. I look into the roster that year and see.
Edit: we could have picked Tillman over Jarron Simmons, Ibi Watson or Austin Davis. Watson and Davis did not look promising after their first year, but that would be pretty quick to move on. So it’s really just 1 year of Simmons, or Tillman. In hindsight I think that’s an easy choice.
Of course that means that someone from the next class couldn’t come either. Pick one between Nunez or Castleton.
Overall, we should have Tillman.
February 18th, 2020 at 11:30 AM ^
Winston and Tillman just seem like good kids who happen to play for a rival. Similarly, I don't really have any animosity toward OSU's basketball team. It's weird.
February 18th, 2020 at 10:35 AM ^
Sparty: Are you losing your mind?
Me: Darling, I lost my mind years ago.
February 18th, 2020 at 10:36 AM ^
One word--Media
February 18th, 2020 at 11:25 AM ^
Beat Rutgers.