Let’s play Explain the Fumble!

Submitted by Class of 1817 on December 3rd, 2023 at 2:17 AM

We won handily, as expected, and we are, by every metric (including the final score), the better team who will win this matchup 100/100 times. Let’s get the foregone conclusions established and out of the way.

I have never seen a fumble recovery be credited so long after a blown whistle. Seeing the ref clearly calling the play dead and Wallace casually tossing the ball to the ref as an afterthought…great for Michigan…but constituting as recovery possession…post-whistle?

But has anyone ever seen non-personal foul conduct post a whistled dead ball like that?

Please discuss.

I hope we draw the Noles, but I’m annoyed we may draw the Tide. Doesn’t matter.

Hail. 

stephenrjking

December 3rd, 2023 at 2:21 AM ^

It was picked up cleanly by a Michigan player immediately after the whistle blew, an "imminent recovery." The ball hit the ground and bounced right to Wallace. As the rules state, they can award the ball to the recovering team in such cases, to protect against an inadvertent whistle robbing a team that would clearly get the football if the whistle had not blown. 

ex dx dy

December 3rd, 2023 at 7:47 AM ^

It was not at all clear Michigan would have recovered anyway. By the time Wallace grabbed the football, no one was playing anymore, for at least a half second, maybe more. With that many players within a few feet of the ball, it could have been anyone's ball had the whistle not been blown. The play is long dead, and Wallace's recovery looked nothing like the continuation of a football play.

I'm as much a homer as anyone, but that call was a mistake. It was a mistake to reverse the on-field decision and call it a fumble, and it was a mistake to award possession to Michigan even if that call was right.

Blinkin

December 3rd, 2023 at 8:01 AM ^

I disagree 50%. Blandino had it right on the broadcast: the fumble call was iffy, but if you make THAT call, then Michigan getting possession is absolutely the right call. I don't see how you can give it back to Iowa after a Michigan player picked up the ball, once you've determined it was a fumble in the first place. 

willirwin1778

December 3rd, 2023 at 9:07 AM ^

I agree.  I thought whether the arm was going forward was the bigger issue with that play in conjunction with the call on the field.  9 times out of 10 the call on the field stands based on what we could see with his arm movement.  

I will admit, it was hilarious watching the officials try to figure out "if the ball was going forward" in the arm of the Iowa QB.  Because obviously, an Iowa player on offense is "never going forward" . . . .  literally, figuratively, in any way really.  Good Call Refs! 

If the zebras have a sense of comedic timing an humor, that was about as good as it will ever get.

Denard's Pro Career

December 3rd, 2023 at 10:49 AM ^

Do we know the wording of the "arm moving forward" rule? Cause in my mind, if the ball is still in his hand, and Sainristil jars it loose before it is leaving his hand, then I don't see how that could not be a fumble.

Maybe there is some rule about if the quarterback's arm is moving forward, it can never be a fumble, but the ball definitely had not left his hand when Mikey jarred it loose.

Admittedly, it was a weird play, and the ball flying forward makes it seem more like a pass since Hill was able to get some forward momentum on it, but it looked to me like Sainristil got to the ball before it had even begun to leave Hill's hand, which should be a fumble.

G. Gulo of the Dale

December 3rd, 2023 at 11:06 AM ^

Do we know the wording of the "arm moving forward" rule? Cause in my mind, if the ball is still in his hand, and Sainristil jars it loose before it is leaving his hand, then I don't see how that could not be a fumble.

The distinction between fumble / incomplete pass has nothing to do with whether the ball is still in the QBs hand.  If the ball is stripped prior to the throwing motion, or during the motion, but prior to the QB's arm and the ball beginning to move forward, then it's a fumble.  As soon as the ball begins to move forward in the act of passing, even while still in the QB's hand, the ball getting knocked away results in an incomplete pass, just as if the ball where batted down after leaving the QBs hand. 

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

December 3rd, 2023 at 8:15 AM ^

Watching the play, it's entirely fair to assume Wallace would've had it anyway, because it bounced to where he was the only player in arms reach of the thing, and they blew the whistle while the ball was bouncing there.

It's also entirely fair to point out that as the game-winning point was scored on M's very first drive of the game, it had no real bearing on the final outcome.

901 P

December 3rd, 2023 at 9:06 AM ^

That's kind of what I was thinking. It seemed like there weren't any Iowa players who were right in the vicinity and would have theoretically challenged Wallace for the ball. It's kind of unusual on a fumble like this, but it did see like it pretty much went right to him in an area where he would have obviously been the one to recover. Admittedly, maybe enough time passed after the whistle that there were Iowa players who could have made a play on the fumble--it's just hard to tell. I, for one, am just glad that a wonky play with debatable officiating and huge implications went our way for once! 

m1jjb00

December 3rd, 2023 at 8:03 AM ^

All you've said is true, but watching and rewatching it, there's a chunk of time between whistle and nonchalant recovery, while everyone else has stopped.  Unless you wrote a rule about it specifying the tenths of seconds that can elapse, which would be absurd, one has to live these events that people won't agree with.  So, what you say is correct, one could still come to a different conclusion.

In an otherwise perfect world, what should have happened is that the officials let the play continue and then review whether it was a fumble---and probably overturn the call to incomplete pass.  My initial reaction was that it was a bullsh** call.  I haven't changed my mind.

This also points to a flaw in the system.  In cases when you let a play run even though you're kind of sure it shouldn't, then the standards of review should be 50-50, not tilted heavily to the call on the field.

Red is Blue

December 3rd, 2023 at 9:57 AM ^

I frequently hear this line of thinking (don't blow the whistle and let replay sort it out) and it makes some sense.  The flip side is that by not blowing the whistle, the call on the field becomes fumble and now you're supposed to have solid evidence to overturn that call.  So, if it is a true 50/50 call, by not blowing the whistle, the refs are tilting the outcome to fumble.

MGoVictory

December 3rd, 2023 at 2:27 AM ^

Yes, I’ve seen recoveries after the whistle was blown in similar situations. I don’t know why that is so controversial, even Dean Blandino agreed with that aspect of the play. 

Tunneler

December 3rd, 2023 at 2:30 AM ^

I didn’t read it. Was he talking about when Mikey Sainristil forced the fumble? Because you can’t deny… Because you other brothers can’t deny, that even though he is small in stature, that he made a play when it really mattered. Defer to the bass guitarist 

mfan_in_ohio

December 3rd, 2023 at 2:42 AM ^

I definitely remember a Michigan-ND game (Henne era?) where we were trying to qb sneak into their end zone. There was a fumble on the play but the refs didn’t know and blew the play dead. It went right to a ND player and on review they were awarded the ball, and it was the right call. This seemed longer after the whistle, but Wallace is the only player who was getting that ball. The ref mistake was blowing the play dead. Wallace could have run that back for a TD.

Eng1980

December 3rd, 2023 at 7:09 AM ^

Was that when they first started replay?  Carr was furious that they didn't review MIchigan breaking the plane of the goal line on the prior play but on the next play, they reviewed a Michigan fumble.  (I think the officials initially awarded the ball to Michigan to makeup for the blown call on the play before but then replay took it away.)  This initiated the Carr rule which is review every (potential) scoring play.

WolverineHistorian

December 3rd, 2023 at 8:51 AM ^

This sounds like the 2005 Notre Dame game where we lost the fumble at the 1 yard line.

Review in college football was “under construction” during that season.  As many will painfully recall, later that year during the Alamo Bowl against Nebraska, the Sun Belt officials were putrid.  Lloyd had to waste all three of our second half timeouts in order to get three obvious blown calls looked at and reversed.

jmstranger

December 3rd, 2023 at 2:46 AM ^

Pretty sure this exact thing happened in multiple games last weekend (SEC games even) and every time it was awarded to the defense. There was even one that clearly looked like an arm coming forward… maybe it was the NFL games, I can’t exactly remember. 

crg

December 3rd, 2023 at 2:48 AM ^

the better team who will win this matchup 100/100 times

You must not watch much football.  The "better" team does not always win... usually yew, but not 100/100.

Needs

December 3rd, 2023 at 7:33 AM ^

The recovery call made sense, even though it was about as late as they’ll allow clear recovery to apply. I couldn’t make sense of the placement of the ball on the 6 and didn’t realize, until Alex’s game column, that they’d thrown a flag on B Ferentz. Did they mention it on the broadcast at all (my party was fairly loud at that point)?

 

Blinkin

December 3rd, 2023 at 7:58 AM ^

I'd assume he was arguing that it was an incompletion rather than a fumble. And he may have been right, I personally thought the ball moves forward just a tiny bit, so the ruling of incomplete probably should have stood. Honestly it was close enough that it was one of those that should have stood as called on the field; video evidence probably shouldn't have overturned either outcome.

Obviously it's completely irrelevant to the outcome of the game. Iowa wasn't getting points on that drive. It was, at most, the difference between Michigan covering the spread or not..

901 P

December 3rd, 2023 at 10:21 AM ^

Yep--they mentioned it on the broadcast. Showed footage of Ferentz going ballistic but didn't show the replay of the flag actually being thrown or the refs announcing the penalty. It was so crazy that they came back from a bunch of commercials and it was like, "oh, by the way, Michigan now has first-and-goal from the 6. 

MAN-AT-ARMS

December 3rd, 2023 at 7:40 AM ^

I have seen it before. It went against the Lions and I was pissed, so it has happened before. Even the ref commentator said they give a few seconds leeway after the whistle for a recovery. 

98xj

December 3rd, 2023 at 7:53 AM ^

Not unusual for the refs to be clueless. This is why you ALWAYS hustle after any loose ball that you see - you never know how it got that way.

DennisFranklinDaMan

December 3rd, 2023 at 9:46 AM ^

I'm always surprised that's not taught more, by coaches. If there's a loose ball, that even could be a fumble, fall on it. Even if they blow the whistle. Fall on it. I'll sometimes see loose balls just rolling to a stop on potential turnovers and lose my mind. :-)

Same with, by the way, if you pick up a ball you think might be a fumble or get what could be an interception, run to the endzone. I don't care if it's 80 yards away. Run to the endzone.

Go for two

December 3rd, 2023 at 8:03 AM ^

All replays should be 60 seconds max. Figure it out and move on. 10 minute replays are very obnoxious and disrupt the game almost as much as the 4 minute commercials 

DennisFranklinDaMan

December 3rd, 2023 at 9:49 AM ^

Agreed. In every sport. The standard is so simple. If you can clearly see the call was wrong — the Galarraga perfect game, for instance — change it. But I don't honestly need really really close calls overruled. We went 100+ years enjoying college football without instant replay, and just accepting referees calls. 

No need to get into Zapruder-film-level analysis on these, especially because so often what the referees conclude is "clear and convincing" remains, to the team on the wrong end of the decision, frustratingly not so. Just look at it, say "seems not an egregious mistake," and get the game moving.