Kiffin signs rapist
That may be as clear and succinct of a headline as I've ever seen on this board.
Holy crap! When I first saw the headline, I figured it would be one of those "Romeo & Juliet"/statutory rape convictions where he had sex with his 15-year-old GF while he was 16, but what he and Sanico did was heinous. I'm sure that Kiffin doesn't really care provided the kid wins and stays out of trouble, and I'm all for giving people multiple chances, but you need to draw a line somewhere when it comes to recruiting kids like this. I guess what bugs me is that the ONLY reason anyone gives two craps about this kid is because he is 6'5" and 220lbs. I do not want to get on a soapbox, but gang-raping someone is one of the worst things a person can ever do, and I have a big issue with this kid "lucking" into juvie, rehabilitation, and a full ride to play at UT while the other guy is spending 10 years in prison. It feels like the legal system has failed here, and even as a lawyer (and you read about cases like this all the time), I'm bothered by that.
Holy crap! When I first saw the headline, I figured it would be one of those "Romeo & Juliet"/statutory rape convictions where he had sex with his 15-year-old GF while he was 16, but what he and Sanico did was heinous. I'm sure that Kiffin doesn't really care provided the kid wins and stays out of trouble, and I'm all for giving people multiple chances, but you need to draw a line somewhere when it comes to recruiting kids like this. I guess what bugs me is that the ONLY reason anyone gives two craps about this kid is because he is 6'5" and 220lbs. I do not want to get on a soapbox, but gang-raping someone is one of the worst things a person can ever do, and I have a big issue with this kid "lucking" into juvie, rehabilitation, and a full ride to play at UT while the other guy is spending 10 years in prison. It feels like the legal system has failed here, and even as a lawyer (and you read about cases like this all the time), I'm bothered by that.
i believe it's therapist
David Cross on Arrested Development being a analyst/therapist, with a business card saying "Analrapist."
Seriously though, this kid did something that no decent person would ever do. It wasn't a mistake, it was a defining moment. I hope it doesn't work out, that would only entice coaches to waste more opportunities on the Willie Williams' of the world. There are much more deserving individuals.
Didn't the article say he was thirteen? I mean there's way too much going on here. This is such an odd case. I suppose I still agree with you that it's pretty hard to go from a gangrapist to a rehabilitated person or quality person.
He was 13.
Gang rape...kid should be in prison.
I just blue myself
Not the pronunciation I was worried about.
Edit: I guess I am a hippie liberal when it comes to punishment, but I am surprised how many people here are upset by this. It was obviously a stupid, stupid terrible decision he made, but he seems to have changed. I don't think it should follow him around forever.
Somewhat longer version of story provides more context: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4146057
I have no pre-standing idea of what sort of ethical code Kiffin brings to his job, but the published facts of the case are no where near enough for me to think of him as a scumbag. The signee was in the same room and tacitly participated in an unimaginably bad thing as a 13 year old kid. But there are a lot of people with no obvious ulterior motives who seem to be going to bat for him, including the victim and various corrections officials.
Thanks for the article. I figured he wasn't the instigator (what I saw during my brief online search bore that out), but the fact remains that he helped tie the victim down (his own cousin) and then did nothing to stop the other guy. I'm all for letting him have another chance, but that shouldn't mean a full ride to a college to play football. If this kid applied to UT as a regular student, I'm guessing the school would have turned him away or, at the very least, placed a number of caveats to his continued attendance. I guess that's my problem - this kid is going to have a chance to be a star all because he won the genetic lottery and is big, fast, and strong. I may be becoming a grumpy old man, but if I'm a UT fan I would not be happy that Kiffin is making such a "bold" move, especially given UT's Fulmer Cup-spawning history.
I agree that there's definitely a case to be made that the kid in question shouldn't be receiving a full ride and an opportunity for on-field glory. I guess I just wanted to put out the view that this isn't some unambiguous case of a cynical, amoral coach bringing in a sociopath to help him win games.
Totally agree. I do not doubt that he is a different kid, and maybe this truly was a one-time, tragic lack of judgment by him. At the same time, if I killed someone while drunk behind the wheel of my car, even if it was my first and only time, I doubt I would ever be able to get behind the wheel, or at least not for an extremely long period of time. I'm not calling for him to be kicked out of society, but I think he can have a successful life without getting a chance to play major college football. That said, my bigger issue is that I think Kiffin is a jerk, so anything he does will be irrationally flamed by me.
When it comes to "not being able to stop" a rape, it might help to not tie up the victim in the first place.
Still I don't see why this surprises people, IMO what Eric Knott did was much worse and sparty couldn't wait to get him on the team. And Kirk Ferentz had his players destroying evidence including bloody sheets after one of his players raped some girl, then threatened the victim not to report it to police.
Just an uncomfortable reminder that big time football is a fucked up business in many ways.
That being said, the article does give some indications that Hood may have changed. A lot changes between age 14 and 18. The thing is that Lane Kiffin doesn't have the integrity that would make me trust his decision.
is hilarious. This kid should be in jail with his gang raping buddy.
He was only 13! How many of you were tempted by friends for a gang rape when you were younger?
Way to keep it classy.
It's a valid point. The "He was 13!" argument assumes that the desire to violate your cousin with a household item is part of the package. It's not. The kid had problems that badly needed treating.
if he classifies himself as a solo artist or a gang tackler.
I wondered when this was going to hit mgoblog.
Kiffin signs ASSISTANT rapist
what do you think he would do to a stranger? Call me a skeptic, but I wouldn't be surprised if Tennessee booster $ helped with the cooperation. How would any of you feel about UM if RR signed him? I'm sorry, but gang rape has nothing to do with maturity.
Yes, every criminal should be locked up forever! People just don't change, ever. And, us being a loving, Christian country and all, we should never forgive anyone for anything, especially rape, murder, tax evasion, torture and illegal u turns. Yes, make these people suffer forever at our own expense. Or better yet, kill them all--that is the best way to demonstrate the state of our civilization. I bet Jesus would have killed that kid on the spot. Besides, the prisons are just totally overwhelmed by all the Christians coming to work with the prisoners--to help them redeem their lives and make amends to their victims. And anyone who gives a criminal a second chance is just as guilty as the criminal. And abortionists, kill all of them too because life is just too dang sacred. And, as an additional bonus, when we deny all criminals education, employment and a place to live, we make society as a whole safer in the long run. Study after study has PROVEN that punishment deters crime. If you think crime is bad in this country now, imagine what it would be if we weren't locking up so many people! Now, that is a scary thought. Glenn Beck agrees. I am going to stop here before this begins to sound like a rant. Just wish I could be that one who casts the first stone. Jesus would be so proud of me!
Hippie.
Nice rant. I could totally hear a drunk Rush Limbaugh in my head while I read it.
Nobody says you need to ostracize the kid from society, but at the same time it seems a little disingenuous to give this kid a scholarship to play football at UT while the other guy involved in the rape is still behind bars. I do not know Hood or his character, but helping to tie up and gag your cousin so a "friend" can rape her is pretty inexcusable, no matter what age you may be at the time. Let the kid apply to school as a regular student, and heck lock up his juvie records if you want, but I think it sends the wrong message to your fans if you let this kid don your uniform. Just my opinion.
As for your claim that PROOF exists that punishment deters crimes, check this out, amongst other articles I found. There is a big difference between deterrence from performing future criminal acts and mere incapacitation that comes from being stuck in jail and not on the streets.
Good article - reminds of a time when Slate essays were often worth reading. Glenn Loury, amongst others, has a really interesting take on America's punitive bent in "Race, Incarceration, and American Values" (http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11555). Kind of pricey for something you can finish in a sitting, but definitely worth reading.
Getting back to the kid in question, I would hesitate to draw too strong an equivalence between the perpetrators. I'm no expert on child psychology, but I imagine a 17 year old can exert quite a lot of coercion over a 13 year old. No excuse for assisting rape, but definitely a factor to be considered.
I agree, kill all rapists!!!!
say is that I'm glad he isn't coming here. Seems like a high risk, low reward situation.
His rap partner, the dude still in lock-up, is probably attending a prison extension program of some college--maybe even UT--and guess what? you and I are paying for it.
Read the Slate thang....you want to go a step further?
Read the stuff Dr. Edward Latessa (University of Cinci) has published. The guy is a freakin genius. He even did some research on guys who cheat in sports. Yeah, that one will surprise you.
Oh well....
I guess the only thing that was keeping UT from achieving its full potential was Fulmer's high ethical standards . . .
First of all, it's Tennessee and they low down, they dirty, they sum snitches.
unbelievable. His own cousin. Tape, tied, and raped in his Dad's house. Heinous, indeed.
But, he was 13. Thirteen. That's 7th or 8th grade. He should have, and no doubt did, know better . . .
But . . . yeah. 13, says the right things, and the victim goes to bat for him. He'll probably be a model citizen and successful student.
"You're mother's a whore, Trebek!"
This was meant for Turbo Cool...crap
thanks for that
I can remember when the University of Michigan was a bastion of tolerance and open thought. Now, it seems like many from there would fry a kid who made a mistake when he was 13 years old.
If this kid didn't learn from his experience and was still a potential rapist, I would not want to ever see him set foot on a football field for anyone. However, from everything that has been written, the kid has done everything he can to try and atone for his act.
Also, and this is key, the kid knows that what he did was very, very wrong. Generally, serial criminals don't have a consciousness that what they have done and are doing is wrong. Instead, they rationalize that their behavior is OK because of outside circumstances. This kid has admitted that he was wrong and seems very contrite.
If he is lying, it will surface later, and he will deserve whatever he gets. If he is, however, telling the truth, then he should be allowed to play football and try to make something of himself.
The legal system has chosen to allow this kid to try and change his life. I have no problem with that. I am glad he has a scholarship to play football. I just wish it was for someone other than Lane Kiffin. He is not exactly a model citizen himself, nor is he a role model for someone trying to get his life on track.
I am willing to give the kid a chance to prove that he is not the same person at 18 that he was at 13. Is anyone here the same person now that he was at 13?
I didn't think so.
Holy shit, I totally agree with Tater.
I was afraid I was the only one.
I had the same anxious feeling. I even re-read the post and double checked to make sure my Coke didn't have Jack in it.
There's a first time for everything!
I agree with Tater to an extent, but I think some people are glossing over the severity of the offense and the relatively light punishment he received for his part in it. I agree with most psychologists that a child's brain is not fully developed until well into one's 20s, especially the impulse center (check out this article from the NY Times Magazine for a good discussion). Thus, a 13-year-old might act completely inappropriately and not fully understand the gravity of his or her actions. And it does sound like a whole lot of people think he has changed his ways, and maybe he has. I get all that.
At the same time, he helped someone rape his cousin. I think most 13-year-olds know that tying up and gagging a girl so that someone else can assault her is wrong, and those that don't have some problems. You say that he hasn't caused any problems and has been a model citizen since then - that is great. Let him apply to school, get a job, vote, drive, whatever. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking Kiffin is doing this because he cares if this kid has truly changed and wants to turn his life around; Kiffin needs a linebacker and this kid is 6'5" and 225lbs. That's why anyone gives a crap about him, and why he is getting chance to be a college football star.
Playing college football is not some God-given right just because you are big and fast. Let this kid apply to UT and get a degree (he had good grades and test scores). Let him speak to groups, write a book, and do outreach to rape victims and try to make his peace with what happened in his past. But by giving him a scholarship, you are sending a pretty jarring message to all the rape victims out there that if a kid says he is sorry and seems contrite AND is a great athlete, he'll get another chance to be experience glory and adulation. All the while, the victims still have to live with the memory of what happened to them for the rest of their lives, lives that probably won't include a full ride, shiny helmets and Nike gear, and a steady line of groupies and deification on a campus.
Kick me off my soapbox if you want, but that is why I have an issue with this kid receiving a scholarship to play football.
Kiffin was not alone in offering this kid either. His rivals profile shows offers from a dozen other schools, including Stanford. They obviously believe his talent exceeds his past. A lot of these kids have troubled pasts. Many rape cases are never brought to the forefront either so you never know, we could have rapists among our players.
Wow... so wrong, but yet so right!
I know "pedantic" means something else entirely but damn if your sig still doesn't make for a pretty funny effect.
all of these other offers, why did it take until May for him to sign? He's a part of the '09 class. thats what would make me hesitant.
Playing the devil's advocate:
1. The rape victim, who is now defending him, happens to be his cousin. What if they hadn't been related? Would she be as likely to forgive him then?
2. Honest question, for those of you who are defending the kid, can you see yourself saying the exact same things if he were black?
(I'm not accusing anyone of racism, but all of us can fall victim to preconceived stereotypes. We generally don't expect a rapist to be white, so we may unconsciously search for some extenuating circumstances in his case.)
1) Maybe, maybe not. He was in the room and didn't do anything - he didn't take part in the rape itself, but he certainly didn't stop it either. None of us, however, are in any position to say definitively whether or not she'd be as likely to forgive him. I would venture toward no.
2) Yes. I had actually thought he was black until I saw the picture (it should be noted I assume football players are black until proven otherwise - Tate really surprised me).
I see where you're coming from though. I wouldn't say all of us "can" fall to these stereotypes, as I haven't yet personally met a single person that isn't a victim of them.