BlueMk1690

January 9th, 2024 at 10:41 AM ^

Rewatching the game. It honestly kinda reminded me of how in the past Big Ten teams would go up against high end SEC teams in bowls etc. and you could just tell that what had worked all season for the Big Ten team just didn't quite work against the stronger, more athletic, more hardened SEC opponents. Michigan simply looked like a fundamentally stronger team, and it's a different kind of opponent than what you get when you play Pac-12 teams all year.

Like Penix can say he didn't think Michigan were special, it's because if you lose a few inches on every play it doesn't really stand out to you, the game just creeps away as your strength gets sapped. Washington couldn't do what they did to win games because Michigan brought just that 1% more than what Washington had seen all year. Washington could never get into a proper rhythm because Michigan was never going to let it be that sort of game.

It's funny so many other Big Ten teams hate Michigan because Harbaugh has built a vindication of the Big Ten way by building an improved version of it. And we've proven you can win with it in the 21st century. Maybe it's just envy that the likes of Greg Schiano or Kirk Ferentz never could quite elevate that concept. Ohio State just built away from it, and it worked. Until they ran into the Harbaughnaut.

Joined: 02/04/2011

MGoPoints: 13006

lhglrkwg

January 9th, 2024 at 11:45 AM ^

It was real lame of Penix to say he didn't think we were anything special. The dude was 9/26 for 100 yards with 2 picks in the 2nd half.

People are giving Penix all this leeway for how he played poorly but don't really talk about Michigan's offense playing poorly. Washington should be thankful they didn't lose by 40

Joined: 07/03/2008

MGoPoints: 88063

PhillipFulmersPants

January 9th, 2024 at 10:59 AM ^

Listened to Cover 3 guys post game thoughts.  Meh.  They kind of give a nod to Michigan a few times, but you can tell they don't think this team is anything special.  "Not among the very elite CFP winning teams."  "Lack of a dynamic passing game" seems to be a chief complaint.  Think JJ is very good but not great (and in the passing game, that's probably fair) but when you factor in his legs and some of the plays he makes (like the one handed catch last week on the backwards pass), I think they undersell his talent as a football player.

Fornelli has conflicting takes.  Says Michigan's defense dominated, won the game.  But also says if Penix hits some throws, Washington wins the game. Probably makes it a different game, sure, but he says it like it's a given. He did say Stallions stuff is pretty meaningless given what team did. 

Joined: 01/06/2009

MGoPoints: 4231

energyblue1

January 9th, 2024 at 11:36 AM ^

If comparing to all time teams, many would make a case against the passing game.  Which in that company could have some merit.  But that said, this defense allowed 10.4ppg all season!  That is impressive by any measure against any team in any game.  Name the best defenses the last 35years and this defense holds up to any of them. 

This offense, attacks with the running game, control the clock, score td's and puts pressure on the opponent in a massive way.  This offense limits the number of possessions and with each score forces the other offense to be even better against this defense. 

Penix, Washington had 4 plays that in the regular season are td's, he hit them.  But this business that "If Penix hits them, they win", is a joke.  Why, there is a reason he didn't when he hit them all season.  That is, he was getting hit all game.  His oline got ran over on plays and they had to tackle our de to stop him from getting drilled on his one long completion that got called back.  He had 2 picks, that tells you that the defense had a massive influence and how it was playing.  Cause by the same token we could point out 4 plays that we had a wide open rec that JJ didnt see.  But that would dismiss the Husky defense had a really good pass rush not allowing JJ to sit back and just operate. 

Joined: 03/19/2010

MGoPoints: 5306

Blinkin

January 9th, 2024 at 11:46 AM ^

Takes like these are so bizarre to me.  They're just words, not actual constructive thoughts.

  • "Not among the very elite CFP winning teams." OK but they beat 4 top-10 teams in their last 6 games.
  • "if Penix hits some throws, Washington wins the game."  OK but if JJ hits a couple more (e.g. the CJ drop) Michigan might just win by 30 rather than 21.  "Things would be different if they were different" isn't a fundamentally interesting or valuable insight.  
  • "He did say Stallions stuff is pretty meaningless given what team did."  Yeah no shit.  Glad he caught up to the rest of the class on that one.

Joined: 08/17/2022

MGoPoints: 28805

lhglrkwg

January 9th, 2024 at 12:28 PM ^

I listened to Cover 3 too and it was a touch annoying how they gave Penix all these outs for 'just missing' on things but didn't talk much about Michigan could've completely blown their doors off if they hadn't missed things too. I imagine they're just trying to give Washington some credit, but Washington should be thankful they only lost by 20.

Joined: 07/03/2008

MGoPoints: 88063

Romeo50

January 9th, 2024 at 11:06 AM ^

Extraordinary. Pointing out the hope Michigan gives to others versus the SEC valet/mercenaries. You know, the guys that move around Boosters cars on their way to NC's and strip clubs.

Joined: 03/09/2013

MGoPoints: 17172

sdogg1m

January 9th, 2024 at 11:15 AM ^

Great show. Won the national championship with two-five star players. Thank you leaders of team 144: Sanristil, Corum, and McCarthy.

Thank you Ben Herbert for developing and motivating these players.

Joined: 09/13/2008

MGoPoints: 5790

PhillipFulmersPants

January 9th, 2024 at 12:01 PM ^

Michigan is great at development.  How many players speak without mentioning "Coach Herb."  And from a technical standpoint, they obviously get great on field instruction. 

I also think Michigan does a great job, probably better than many, of identifying "elite" talent that scouting services just don't recognize.  From the moment Zinter hit campus, you heard the talk. I don't know if guards are ever 5 stars but doubt there was a better guard in his class. Graham clearly scouted a ton but somehow services didn't see it.  Clearly a 5-star talent in retrospect.  Loveland rose late but would love to see how he'd be re-ranked.  Anyway, they may have only had 2-3 players that technically were ranked as 5-stars in HS, but guys like Zinter, Loveland, Graham I think would be special anywhere. 

 

Joined: 01/06/2009

MGoPoints: 4231

MaizeandBlueBleeder

January 9th, 2024 at 11:25 AM ^

I revert back to what PJ Fleck said after we dominated them "That was the best football team I have ever seen".  For some reason after I heard that, I knew we had a TEAM that would contend and we did.  

Joined: 09/03/2014

MGoPoints: 2348

McSomething

January 9th, 2024 at 11:26 AM ^

Programs like MSU should have hope for the possibility of ascending more now than ever. There is a blueprint for teams without top 5 talent climbing to the mountiantop. But in their hatred, they'll refuse to see how this is good for them, and just be pissy rivals about this run. 

Joined: 09/29/2010

MGoPoints: 36898

pdgoblue25

January 9th, 2024 at 11:30 AM ^

The crying from OSU fans is making this better than I could ever imagine.

MSU fans are suicidal.

I'm still drunk from last night

What a wonderful, wonderful day

Joined: 03/03/2010

MGoPoints: 19030

BlueMk1690

January 9th, 2024 at 12:17 PM ^

I will say - reflecting more in detail on what Klatt said - I think he overplays the 'hope' element coming out of this for other programs. It's kind of difficult to paint a Michigan national title as some great underdog story giving hope to 2nd tier programs.

Clemson historically has been a lesser program, you could say that's an 'underdog' story giving hope. If you watched Clemson under Bowden and the first few years of Dabo even and then watch them 2011 onward, it's night and day. They almost overnight had NFL players at key positions, and clearly they figured something out that made that possible (*wink wink*). Ole Miss and TAMU if anything have been trying to emulate that.

I think what's changing though is that the obvious route to success is different because of the way money has started to flood the process early on and the way team commitment is clearly temporary. The way the 'one and dones' have changed college hoops, the way a Calipari-coached Kentucky did not win one natty after another with those loaded teams. The easier it gets for players to chase a paycheck as high school juniors and the easier it gets for them to do this here today, there tomorrow, the more the focus shifts toward getting the right guys, keeping them together, keeping them happy and focused.

The current CFB landscape is absolutely wild and much more so than the NFL, which has developed a ton of mechanisms to maintain at least a relatively reliable structure around teams. We hear stories of 5 star players committing to one team for the paycheck and then chasing another one from another team shortly thereafter. It's a crazy environment ripe for abuses and tricks. Teams can still buy star-studded rosters, but they don't know if that purchase includes those guys' loyalties and best performances. In the past the power balance left players with little way out other than to do whatever it takes to keep that team and coaching staff happy. You make them happy, you win, you go to the NFL and get paid. Nowadays a lot of those guys can make life-changing money without ever even proving they have pro talent. It's no wonder so many guys want 6th, 7th, 8th years in CFB. It's a career now. It's a totally different ball game now.

Teams who understand these changes and know how to work with them will benefit tremendously. And it's not necessarily teams throwing money at recruits to get a top 5 class.

Joined: 02/04/2011

MGoPoints: 13006

Booted Blue in PA

January 9th, 2024 at 12:26 PM ^

I think you're probably correct... NIL is going to make bigger stronger programs bigger and stronger.... while smaller market teams are going to struggle even more.  

 

What it will do is expand the number of perennial contenders.   Now its not just Bama, GA and ohio state building rosters with cash.....    you're going to get a dozen team, not on even ground, but on a much more gradual slope.  

 

Joined: 12/18/2018

MGoPoints: 60541