"It's harder to get into Big Ten universities, except MSU"
The article title pretty much says it all but it's worth a read. http://bridgemi.com/2014/08/um-soars-msu-doesnt-on-freshmen-test-scores/
Apparently State has also fallen behind Michigan Tech in admission standards.
EDIT: for those of you who still won't click a non-sports/non-Snyder or Rosenberg article here's the guts:
"Since 2001, Michigan, Ohio State, Minnesota, Indiana and Purdue have seen substantial gains in ACT test scores for incoming freshmen. This has pushed the Big Ten's average scores on the so-called "middle 50" -- representing the middle 50% of incoming freshmen - up 2 points or more over this period. ACT scores for Big Ten freshmen in the 25th percentile of their class rose from 22.6 points on average in 2001 to 25.1 points last year, a 2.5-point increase. Those in the 75th percentile rose from 27.9 to 29.8 (a max ACT score is 36). But as the conference attracts higher-achieving students, one member, Michigan State, has basically tread water since 2001. Incoming MSU students raised their ACT scores by roughly one point over this period, even as other schools - both from the top and bottom of the Big Ten - raised their game considerably, a Bridge analysis shows. Michigan State now ranks second from the bottom among the 12 Big Ten universities that report ACT scores, ahead of only Nebraska. (Rutgers and Maryland joined the conference this year but are not included in this analysis because nearly all their students took the SAT). Back in 2001, MSU was ahead of Nebraska and essentially tied with Indiana, Purdue and Minnesota, and just behind Ohio State and Illinois. Except for Nebraska, these other schools had surpassed Michigan State on either the 25th and 75th percentiles or both by 2013. MSU does, however, have far more company when compared with Michigan's 14 other public universities. With the exception of UM, the Bridge analysis finds that nearly all in-state schools stayed relatively stagnant since 2001, as measured by the ACT. MSU ranks third in the state in academic strength of its incoming students, behind UM and Michigan Tech."
August 28th, 2014 at 7:49 AM ^
August 27th, 2014 at 3:44 PM ^
I agree that it's not the University of Pheonix, but it's hyperbole to call it "one of the best engineering schools." It's fine, you get a degree and a job and go on with your life. They're not any more sought after than Michigan State engineering grads.
August 27th, 2014 at 3:52 PM ^
I read this statement and it occurred to me that I haven't noticed any university's engineer's being sought after more than any other university's engineers. It truly doesn't matter where you go as long as you are competent. At least that is the case for engineers working in the corporate world. For people who go to law school or into investment banking that's probably not the case. I guess that's the real advantage of going to Michigan -- Exxon isn't more likely to hire you, but you are more likely to get into a good medical school.
August 27th, 2014 at 4:08 PM ^
This is the unfortunate truth people don't figure out until they enter the job market and see who else was brought in alongside of them. You go to a place like Michigan if you want to get involved in research (or, you know, want to live in a real city and go to a school that's a heck of a lot of fun).
As a side discussion, Exxon would actually be a good example of a selective company. They have a pretty rich history of "elitism" at career fairs. Michigan doesn't feed to heavily in the oil industry (Shell seems to have taken a fancy to Michigan as of late at least), but going to a school like Texas A&M will definitely put you a step ahead of someone from pretty much anywhere else for Exxon (and not just for their "petroleum engineering" majors). Marathon Petroleum will be ratcheting up their career fair efforts at A&M as well now that they've inherited the ever so reliable BP Texas City refinery.
But yeah, at the end of the day you usually don't need someone particularly innovative or intelligent to fill a run of the mill engineering position. Mostly just need someone dedicated enough to keep documentation up to date and accessible.
August 27th, 2014 at 4:23 PM ^
The last group of summer students we took on here actually had a large Michigan Tech representation. We recruit that school for engineers quite heavily, although we get a ton of Michigan and MSU people as well in here. Actually, quite a few firms here in Metro Detroit go up there to scout the future, I believe.
August 27th, 2014 at 6:14 PM ^
Good things happen in Houghton.
August 27th, 2014 at 3:23 PM ^
August 27th, 2014 at 3:42 PM ^
August 27th, 2014 at 2:50 PM ^
Makes me feel good that even though I didn't go to / wouldn't have been accepted to Michigan, my ACT score was comfortably in the top quarter of students admitted. And I didn't even study for the ACT test...
Yeah, I'm bragging... but the Walmart Wolverine stigma compels me.
August 27th, 2014 at 3:16 PM ^
August 27th, 2014 at 2:53 PM ^
I thought the ACT was like a fake SAT. I wonder how I'd do on either test if I took them both now, as I approach the big 4-0...
August 27th, 2014 at 2:59 PM ^
When i went ACT was sort of the Midwest test and SAT was more East coast - granted I took both. From what I hear from people with kids is the SAT is a whole different animal than it was 20 years ago. Don't know if the ACT has changed format.
August 27th, 2014 at 4:37 PM ^
The ACT is a much easier test for most people as it focuses more on what you may have learned while in school while the SAT tries to measure your critical thinking skills but both pretty much fail in terms of actually predicting student performance at school. Having taken both though the ACT is a joke, the science section is pretty much how quickly can you read a graph and the english section doesn't really test anything other than basic grammar.
August 27th, 2014 at 9:38 PM ^
August 28th, 2014 at 8:43 AM ^
Yeah, this is just one person speaking, but I found the SAT yawningly easy compared to the ACT, mainly because of the time limits. The ACT's was way less forgiving and I found myself going "what??" when the proctor said pencils down.
August 27th, 2014 at 2:54 PM ^
August 27th, 2014 at 3:06 PM ^
UM takes a lot of out of state and international students versus MSU. I don't have the figures in front of me but it's not nearly as Michigan heavy of a student base as you'd think at UM.
EDIT - Here is an article from 2 years ago - the freshman class was 43% out of state. For a "public university" that is pretty damn huge. With the variation in tuition in and out of state it makes sense why they take so many from out of state esp with demand so high. (Apparently it was 35% as recently as 2009)
http://www.annarbor.com/news/university-of-michigan-sees-increase-in-ou…
August 27th, 2014 at 3:06 PM ^
nothing about intergalactic students? Ah well.
August 27th, 2014 at 3:15 PM ^
But I do know that's part of the reason Michigan's standards have gone up recently. They have (according to the article) about 75% more applications now than a decade ago. So that certainly helps things too. Not like back in my day when a different essay had to be written for every school you applied to.
\shakes fist at today's youth
As for out of country, I'm guessing MSU isn't far behind there. Almost all major universities (hell, my wife went to a small university in Michigan and it was the same there) love international students because it costs so much for them to go to school here. So I'm guessing it's more an out of state thing than international. More really good out of state students will apply to Michigan, because it's a really good school. But it doesn't make sense to pay out of state costs to go to a school that is just good, when you can pay much less going some place nearby.
August 27th, 2014 at 3:15 PM ^
They told me to write my essay while walking uphill, both ways, in the snow, barefoot... with my blood rather than a #2 pencil.
Damn these kids today.
August 27th, 2014 at 3:14 PM ^
August 27th, 2014 at 3:03 PM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
August 27th, 2014 at 3:30 PM ^
August 27th, 2014 at 5:38 PM ^
or reduce the size of the school by the same proportion as the decline in state population.
I think the bigger issue is the decline in funding from the state. I haven't seen numbers but my sense is that Illinois has gone through something similar--as their government funding got squeezed the proportion of out-of-state and especially international students went up.
August 27th, 2014 at 3:34 PM ^
1) The state only provides a meager 16% of all of the University's funding. Thats down from over 60% about 30 years ago when the percentage was still 70% instate/30% out of state.
2) Iowa is a state school because of similar issues discussed above with their state's population, they've moved to 50/50.
3) MSU used to be over 90% in staters but this incoming class was only 70% instate/15% out of state and 15% international.
August 27th, 2014 at 3:05 PM ^
I always thought that the borderline kids that didn't get in went to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Brown, etc...
August 27th, 2014 at 3:32 PM ^
pretty sure U of M takes ~58% in state and MSU is closer to ~80% in state (last time I checked college board)
August 27th, 2014 at 4:11 PM ^
They all applied to Michigan.
August 27th, 2014 at 3:27 PM ^
Wish I would've lived in Michigan during high school to get in-state tuition. There was no way I could have afforded out of state. Thanks a lot, General Motors. We relocated to Tennessee when I was a "young-en" in 1991.
August 27th, 2014 at 4:16 PM ^
for Saturn then? Did they ever get back to GM?
August 28th, 2014 at 10:56 AM ^
We moved here with Saturn in 1991 and my mom moved back in January 2010 to work at the Lansing plant.
August 27th, 2014 at 3:54 PM ^
Enough with the academics argument. They're kicking our asses on the football field, which is all that matters this time of year.
August 27th, 2014 at 9:52 PM ^
August 27th, 2014 at 4:20 PM ^
I know that it's taboo on this site because it would affect click-throughs but I would love to see an alumi designation with the username (even if self regulated) because I think it DOES matter when you are talking about academics not sports.
August 27th, 2014 at 4:42 PM ^
Posts like this remind of that guy in my fraternity back in the day who was socially awkward and probably shouldn't have gotten a bid and no one particularly liked, but could sure as hell be counted on to wear our fraternity letters on every shirt, sweatshirt and cap he wore every day, because he had very little else going on in his life.
Let's all aspire to have more going on in our lives than gloating over academic superiority over MSU, except such times as when faced with MSU fans gloating over a recent MSU victory over us in which case all bets are off.
August 28th, 2014 at 2:25 AM ^
you weren't that guy, by any chance, were you?
August 27th, 2014 at 9:22 PM ^
it's probably worth remembering that MSU has been decimated by budget cuts during the course of the recession. That recession has not helped most of the people in this country. I personally am not invested in seeing MSU decline.
August 27th, 2014 at 5:20 PM ^
August 27th, 2014 at 5:20 PM ^
this explains many things. Including great things like this:
August 27th, 2014 at 9:45 PM ^
August 27th, 2014 at 6:10 PM ^
I know I took SATs and not ACT when I applied as out of state. Hell, I don't think I'd ever heard of ACT until I got to UM, and that was only mid '90s.
August 27th, 2014 at 6:31 PM ^
August 27th, 2014 at 6:36 PM ^
is State has chosen to focus on in-state students rather than the out of state student.
August 27th, 2014 at 6:38 PM ^
August 27th, 2014 at 7:53 PM ^
August 27th, 2014 at 9:50 PM ^
August 27th, 2014 at 8:27 PM ^
August 27th, 2014 at 9:47 PM ^
August 27th, 2014 at 9:52 PM ^
I don't think test scores should be weighed as much as they are. The real world does not use test scores as a measure for success. I would like to see Michigan accept more people from in state.
August 27th, 2014 at 10:16 PM ^