How to fill the absence of Isaiah Livers?
Obviously you cannot replace Livers, but you can hopefully fill the void adequately by combining the efforts of different guys.
Most of Livers' minutes will be taken up by Brandon Johns and Chaundee Brown. Of the two, Brown's game more resembles Livers with his 3-point shooting and ability to defend multiple positions. On the other hand, Johns is bigger and stronger than both and can bolster the interior. I'd say you definitely want Johns on the floor whenever Austin Davis is in the game to help with inside defense. Williams can also come on for spot minutes at the four spot.
Johns will have to watch the fouling. He tends to get a little sped up (often in a good way) but he is not accustomed to playing extended minutes.
Overall this can be a rallying point for the rest of the team if they all decide to pick up Livers. It's a tremendous opportunity for Brandon Johns especially and I have a feeling he is going to be balls to the wall ready for it. But he will have to bring production as well as effort.
The mantra for the entire team has to be defense, defense, defense. Michigan has beaten some very good teams already this year when getting limited offense out of Livers. But Livers always brought the D.
Obviously we need a... Livers transplant.
wow. you have got to be kidney!!
These jokes are so bad, I'm leaving. It's spleen real...
Happy Ides, EYB.
thank you
thank you
I'd say Chaundee and Johns would beat Livers playing 2 on 1....
So we should be just fine, obviously the combination of Brown/Johns > Livers
We can play 6 guys??? Who knew? This changes everything!
You can if you're the 2008-09 Pittsburgh Penguins.
Sorry. Still bitter.
Logged in to upvote.
I only vaguely remember that series due to how crazy life was at that point in time. Remind me what this is referencing?
Think it was Game 2 or 3 of The Finals; Pittsburgh had 6 skaters and the goalie on the ice for what seemed like a full minute (I'm sure it wasn't as long as I remember it being, but it was obvious and the officials missed it).
and Nick Lidstrom missing the wide open friggin' net.....
ugh....thx, thx for unearthing that fun memory.
It would big huge if John's had a coming out party like the one we've been waiting for all season.
More banking on the combo of Johns/Chaundee/Williams/Jackson. Throwing Jackson in there because someone will need to spell Smith & Brooks if Chaundee is taking on some the Livers role. All of these kids are capable of succeeding and I am optimistic coach will have them ready.
Exactly. If we didn't need Chaundee to play probably 15 minutes at the two, he would be a very good replacement for Livers. And "upside Johns" would work very well but inconsistency has been a big problem. Williams is the other possible solution. Would love to see Zeb be able to soak up a solid 10 minutes at guard but I am not sure that's in the cards at tourney time. Juwan will earn his money in the tournament.
if johns would just cut out the dumb turnovers, he would be a good replacement for livers. the guy can shoot, plus rebounder and adequate defender. have franz guard the tougher swing player on D.
that said, i like chaundee coming off the bench, so he can sub in for and of the 1-4 who gets in foul trouble or needs a breather. that's the big benefit of having guys that can play multiple spots.
I agree with most of what you said, but the biggest limitation I see with Johns replacing Livers is the lack of a 3-point risk. They are often still playing a 4-out offense when Johns is in the game, but teams sag off of him a lot which hurts the rest of the offense. He's either not confident in taking those shots or doesn't have the green light because he passed up a handful of 3-point shots that would have been high percentage shots for Livers (granted, teams would have played Livers differently - but that would have helped other aspects of the offense.)
Johns showed some promise in the paint, but it seems like capitalizing on that requires a more significant redesign of the offense - but if Livers is out for the tournament then it may be the only shot.
I agree Chaundee is probably best off as primary backup for the 1-4 spots; otherwise it requires more minutes for Zeb who doesn't seem ready to contribute.
Brooks, Brown, and Smith have to increase their scoring by a combined 16 points a game. Johns will get boards, play defense, and get you about 6 points a game.
yeah, if Brown is hitting his shots, I think we do well.
Why only those three? Wagner and Dickinson can take more shots, too.
Wagner not disappearing for periods would probably take care of it. Not a diss on him, but sometimes he just plays a bit more passive than I'd like to see. Smith will naturally pick up more of the scoring and playmaking.
Im with you. Wagner seems to be a very passionate player, but he gets in his own head. He also tends to bring others down with him when hes off....which can be frustrating. Im not doubting his athleticism or skillset but his maturity isnt quite at the Livers level.
Livers was more than just offense and defense to this team.
Agreed. Franz has had a few games like that this year where he will attack the rim right away, but if he doesn't finish, then he will stop attacking altogether. He's gonna have to step up and take over if this team has any shot at a Final Four
I'm holding out for the Tourney Wagner. His brother's game went up a couple notches in the NCAA tournament.
He's got some maturing to do yet. He'll get there. Provided he doesn't make an ill advised move to try the NBA
i'm still holding out hope that livers could play some minutes in the round of 16 should we get there. even if he is just a shooter for 10-15 min.
I'm with you, chicago - as much for Livers himself as for our chances. Would love for him to have a chance to dance.
Honestly, Johns and Brown together fill Livers' role pretty well, if opponent/game situation/substitutions are effectively taken into account.
Johns provides toughness, size and rebounding, Brown provides defensive intensity and shooting (at least when he's "on").
Where we're really gonna miss Livers is:
- Leadership. Isaiah is a leader, and incredibly valuable in terms of court smarts and poise.
- Depth. His loss reduces us to basically a 7 man rotation, with Williams/Zeb(?) stealing some minutes. The drop-off to those guys is huge - they just don't seem ready yet. Foul trouble will be disastrous.
- Cohesion. When Michigan plays well, they are a fucking machine. Every part works perfectly together. When one of the cogs is missing, the whole machine seems to get wonky. We saw that when Brooks was out, and the last few games with Livers hurting/sitting. This is the biggest challenge to overcome - if they can run smoothly with a new rotation, it's a massive credit to the coaches and players.
Great points - this is exactly how I feel as well.
Seconded. Losing Livers and his inherent versatility makes us somewhat more sensitive to situational matchups. Johns and Brown will play key roles. If we want to make a long NCAA run, we'll need at least 1 or 2 games where Johns contributes significantly on both ends of the floor. He's entirely capable.
Livers being out really hurts in a close game situation. Excellent FT shooter, and knows what to do with the ball when it gets chaotic in closes games down the stretch. Hopefully the new line up gets to gel this week in practice and they can get past the first weekend and really settle in before the S16.
It’s going to depend on matchups. I can see one starting one game and the other starting the next depending on the opponents starting lineup. Livers being out obviously hurts their depth but fortunately a lot of players on this team can play multiple positions.
Here is an idea. How about we just pound the rock down low to our All American 7'2" center over and over and over and over?
You know. The guy who has an advantage over his defender in pretty much every game he has played?!
Crazy idea... I know.
4 ticky tack fouls later you're going to need a better idea.
Until I read a better idea (haven't seen any yet in this thread) I'll continue to say this is our best option.
I think Hunter has and will continue to get a healthy amount of looks and shots up in the post. Seems like your post is insinuating that Hunter is critically underutilized, and if only the coaches would get their head out of their ass and force the ball into Hunter in the post for 30 shots a game, we would be an unstoppable death machine of an offense.
Part of what makes Hunter so good is his ability to pass from the post after the help defense collapses on him and finds quality looks for his teammates. I don't think asking Hunter to go full Kofi Cockburn, blackhole in the post is going to improve offensive efficiency in the slightest.
Just continue to run the offense through the post like they have all season where Hunter can hurt you with the shot or pass, and maybe run some high-low post sets with Johns or identify some wrinkles in the offense to help accentuate what Johns does well. Unlike the OSU game, they have plenty of time to install to variations in the offense that better suits Johns in the absence of Livers.
I wouldn't break out anything new until Monday however, unless the first round game is not going well.
Did you see the Illinois game? Counting on HD to solve all problems may work against lesser tems but against teams like FSU, Texas, Gonzaga, Kansas, UVA, maybe Iowa, and other teams with true centers, you are going to need a Plan B. Plus some teams may double HD more knowing that Michigan's best 3 point shooter is out.
He's our leading scorer. They play through Dickinson all the time. Why do you think you're being insightful?
I would love for Johns to have a mental green light for shooting from the outside. He has a great looking stroke but always looks like he's second guessing letting it fly. Livers requires defenders to be in his grill because he has a hand down-man down shooting mentality, that alone can mess with the opposing D because you need to track him at all times. Chaundee also does that, we need Johns to provide that threat as well.
In my opinion, Livers biggest contribution was his clutch shooting - 3pt and otherwise. I don't mean clutch, end-of-game winning shots but the ending-the-other-team's-run type of shooting. Basketball is a game of runs and you could almost always count on Livers to step up when we needed a bucket.
While the guys replacing him are certainly capable, I'm not sure they are at Livers level.
Johns is a career 36% 3Pt shooter, and while he's often been hesitant, he's up to 43% this year.
I fully expect that Juwan & Co. will draw sets that are more in line with BJJ ability to spot up in the corner, think early Livers/DJ style.
After thinking about the ending of the OSU game for 30 hours, I decided I would have called a timeout and subbed Johns in for this reason. The final play had Williams at the 3 point line. I don’t recall seeing him make one this year. OSU’s defender cheated into the middle cutting off Smith’s drive to that side. I’m not blaming Coach Howard because like I said it only hit me the next day, and who knows how OSU would’ve adjusted their defense.
You answered it yourself, you don't. It sucks but at least we're progressing through the phases of grief (denial -> bargaining).
Johns works well as a catch and shoot corner 3 guy and a high energy rebounder. Other than that, he's had a lot of struggles. His ORTG is the lowest among the normal rotation guys and his TO rate is really high because he's not great at putting the ball on the deck. He's a good athlete at his size, but not great. So when he drives, he gets cut off. When he goes up through contact at the rim, he doesn't really elevate over guys and has to put up tough shots or gets blocked (like Liddell this past weekend and that Rutgers fade away). When he backs guys down, he usually turns into a black hole that doesn't find weird ways to finish like Davis. He drew some good fouls against OSU last weekend though which is a positive development. Almost got some and 1s as well.
Defensively, he gets blown by quite a bit because he gets up in guy's faces at the 3 point line for no real reason and commits 5.5 fouls/40 minutes. 2nd most on the team among normal rotation guys and he gets lost on rotations quite a bit. Ahrens' 1st half 3 this weekend was Johns just not switching and following him as he drifted 5 feet into the corner.
Basically, if he were to back off defensively, he'd probably have an easier time. He's 6'8", make guys shoot over that. Offensively it's a square peg round hole situation. He can't replace Livers' production, but more importantly he can't replace Livers' style of play and how it works within the offense as constructed. Put him in good situations and I think he can excel. Back down smaller wings, P&R when he has immobile 4s on him, and be the kick out option on drives.
Brown would be the better option so long as he isn't guarding a 6'8" guy, but he's the primary backup at the 2 for Brooks and by extension Smith. He too gets up in guy's faces and gets called for fouls 35 feet from the basket. It's fun when it works and frustrates guys, but with the limited depth he should probably cut it out.
The problem is Zeb isn't ready so they have to save some of Brown's minutes for when Brooks/Smith needs a blow. Johns can survive against most teams by just being tall and athletic, but a game against FSU or one in which he has to play a lot more results in a lower ceiling. Williams not having an offensive game yet makes him a defensive guy/someone to burn minutes where they can, so a younger Johns kind of. Need to find a way to get Johns in good spots and spell him will more minutes from Wagner and Brown.
Livers will be back if we make it to the sweet 16
Based on what do you make that prediction, as the average stress fracture takes 6 weeks to heal?
did they confirm a fracture?
Because otherwise my bracket is f**ked