How do we replicate OSU's modern success?

Submitted by bama north on November 15th, 2020 at 11:29 PM

1.  We are at point A.  Let's start talking about how we get from point A to point B (being a NC contender).  Let's stop re-re-re-analyzing the past.  Let's start, simply, talking about how best to get from where we currently are, to where we would like to be.

2.  Where we are.  We are the 3rd richest college football program in the country (behind just Texas and Texas A&M, according to Forbes' latest summation).  We have the 2nd biggest fanbase/tv audience in the country (behind just OSU, according to the NYTimes' latest summation).  We have the biggest alumni group in the country.  We have facilities that are second to none.  We have academic and athletic support-staff that is second to none.  We have the biggest stadium in the country.  We have a high school-to-the-NFL pitch that is as strong as anyone's.  We have the best academics-football combo in the country.  Where we are, Point A, is a pretty nice place to be.

3.  Where is OSU?  Leave your BS at the door, please.  OSU is an outstanding, public, Big10 University.  They have the exact same admissions standards as us.  And I'm sure their generic "general studies" degrees are just as incredibly easy as ours.  Our administration -- from Lloyd to Harbaugh -- has given its head football coaches everything they need to compete.  Facilities, Assistant salary pools, recruiting budgets, private jet use, support staff, marketing, fan support, you name it..  we have it at the absolute highest level.  Michigan football coaches get everything they need to succeed.  Don't listen to lazy a-holes like Harbaugh...who don't even go out on recruiting trips, or research coordinator hires, let alone assistant hires...cry foul.  The state of Ohio produces more talent than the state of Michigan, but it's not THAT big of a difference.  Count the 4+ stars that have come from each state over the past 5 yrs and you'll find it's about the same.  There's a reason OSU's recruiting has had such a national emphasis the past decade.  And leave this BS about "cheating" at the door, too.  If Juwan Howard was in Columbus signing the classes that he is here....  you people would be absolutely unbearable to listen to.  Michigan players get benefits.  OSU players get benefits.  Stop acting like this is Yale.  Stop acting like OSU is Ole Miss.  STOP MAKING STUPID EXCUSES.  How do we get from point A to point B??

4.  Recruiting.  Look at OSU's staff.  9 of their 11 on-field coaches have been named to 247/Rivals Top-25 Recruiter lists.  Day, Wilson, Alford, Hartline, Studrawa, Coombs, Mattison, Johnson, Washington.  They have two other young guys who probably will as well soon.  Look at our staff.  We have 4..  Gattis, Sherrone, Warinner and Jean-Mary.  Ohio State emphasizes recruiting more than we do.  Plain and simple.  They don't have Urban Meyer's son who doesn't recruit that well on staff, or Josh McDaniels' brother, or NFL/Old School guys who don't like to recruit..  or who just aren't very good at it (Zordich, Shoop, Nua, Brown).  At OSU, being an outstanding recruiter is a pre-requisite.  And being an *outstanding* (not okay, or good, or even really good) recruiter is something that needs to become a prerequisite to working here too.  We need a head coach who understands the importance of this.

5.  Culture.  How many times in the past 6 yrs have you read a story about some disgruntled player's (aka child's) mommy and/or daddy complaining to Harbaugh about how their son is being treated??  This is a high school program.  It's where kids go to school and then play football after class.  At OSU, it's a professional operation.  It's focused.  It's where high school kids go to become pros, and where they take classes on the side, and where their mommies and daddies can't baby them.  This is 2020.  If you want to be a Lawyer, a Doctor, a Teacher, a whatever...  go to Northwestern, go to Vanderbilt, go to an Ivy league school, go to Rice, go to Stanford, whatever.  If you want to be an outstanding NFL player with a great fallback option (and a great masters you can pursue as a 5th yr, or in the pro off-season)...  come to Michigan.  And this isn't 6th grade camp where your parents get to second guess the counselors.  This is billion dollar business.  This is training to become a professional.  This is cut-throat, cream rises to the top, soft washes out.  This is beat f******g Ohio State or f*****g else.  We need a head coach who comes from a Saban/Meyer/Dabo-like no-nonsense professional background.  Someone who can set the culture here and treat this like a professional program.

6.  Coordinators.  Last 5yrs, who have OSU's coordinators been?  On offense, it's basically been Urban (one of the greatest offensive minds of his time) passing the torch to Day (seemingly one of the best offensive minds of his time).  Kevin Wilson...one of the modern Big10's greatest offensive minds...has been in the background.  Tom Herman, Mike Yurcich, Tim Beck.  It's 2020...even Nick Saban is giving up 40 pts in playoff games.  You have to be innovative, you have to be able to score.  If your head coach isn't a great offensive mind, he'd better know how to hire one.  Josh Gattis....  we made a big deal out of this guy....  he wasn't even Mike Locksley's backup OC at Bama, he was Locksley's backup's (Enos) backup.  Pep Hamilton went to the XFL after being here.  Tim Drevno was coaching RB's in the Pac12 after being here.  It's been a joke.  Look at OSU's D-Coordinators over the last 5yrs.  Kerry Coombs...NFL guy (who also happens to be one of the best recruiters in modern Big10 history).  Jeff Hafley...NFL guy (who was probably the best DC in all of college football in his one season before becoming a HC, and also TORE IT UP as a recruiter).  Greg Schiano...  NFL HC (who was set to be Bill Belichick's DC between the Tennessee fiasco and the Rutgers return...  and who recruited the HELL out of the northeast).  Luke Fickell..  another of the all-time best modern Big10 recruiters, who may now be the frontrunner for our HC'ing job.  Alex Grinch was an assistant as well in that span.  Durkin was a fine DC, and recruiter..  before his issues.  But Don Brown was just a gimmick ACC DC who's never recruited other than 3-stars and New England talent.  These OSU guys aren't getting paid or supported more than Michigan coordinators.  They're just smarter, better hires.  And we need a coach who knows how to spend our money wisely.

*****

To summarize a long story.  Point A is an outstanding place to be, for us (we're very blessed to have a number of things).  Point B --> being an annual NC contender; a program that rivals or even bests OSU's..  is a very realistic goal.  We need a new head coach who A) Sets a professional culture.  B) Emphasizes the importance of recruiting and hires great recruiters (maybe perhaps himself even being a great recruiter).  And C) Who knows how to spend our top-notch money well on coordinators.  We need someone with talent, with hunger, and schooling in the modern ways.

-Mario Cristobal's seen how it's done in Saban's program.  He's had some success already in running his own.  Excellent recruiter.  Excellent hire'r of recruiters and coordinators.

-Jeff Scott.  He's seen how it's done in Dabo's program.  He's just starting off on his own.  Venables, in the same token, has seen how Dabo's done it as well.  Both are great recruiters personally..  hopefully they'd hire great ones, too.  Tony Elliott..not as great a recruiter as the other two...but there.

-Urban would obviously be the ideal hire, if there's enough money in the world to get him.  I don't care about his idiot ex-assistant/Earl Bruce's nephew's ridiculous domestic situation or texts at this point.

-Joe Brady and Lincoln Riley are the kind of outstanding offensive minds Meyer and Day are/were.  Lincoln's got some good experience running his own show.  Brady's seen it done right at LSU.

-Fickell, Campbell, Fleck, either Stoops, others.  

I don't know who the right answer is.  But I know that this is far from a hopeless situation; in fact, I think it's still an outstanding situation.  And the issues that need to be addressed to get us from point A to point B are, in my opinion, far from insurmountable.  

TallyWolverine

November 16th, 2020 at 7:48 AM ^

Two consecutive dumb posts by “bama north.”

It might not sound like much, but here is how we replicate OSU’s success:

1) we steal their entire coaching and support staff

2) we steal all their players 

3) we steal their administration and boosters

4) we convince all the above that those maize and blue uniforms are actually scarlet and gray, and that Ann Arbor is actually Columbus, Ohio. 
 

Help me Tom Cruise!!

 

 

rob f

November 16th, 2020 at 9:37 AM ^

Pete and Roger have nothing to do any of this, but if they did, I'm pretty sure they Won't Get Fooled Again into thinking they have to hire a "Michigan Man". I Can't Explain it any better than this: they're not so Deaf, Dumb, and Blind  (ok, Pete is deaf) that they can't See for Miles and (Les) Miles that there's no Substitute for being The Seeker of the most qualified coach available. 

Max Power

November 16th, 2020 at 8:11 AM ^

Honestly, I dont want Urban. It would make him the most fake person alive. You cant treat Michigan like he has, even in retirement only referring to us as Wolverines, then coach us and say all that was for show but now it's real. I respect how he handles the rivalry. Its why he has dominated us.

 

 

Ajcoss

November 15th, 2020 at 11:43 PM ^

Next step is a great coach. Meyer is only home run, but 5% chance that happens. Cristobol, Stoops, Fickell, and Campbell would all be upgrades and guys we should be excited about. Not ready to give the keys to a guy who hasn’t ran his own program (Scott year 1 doesn’t count). Personally think if we go 1-7 or 2-6ish the 2021 and 2022 seasons are pivotal for this program. Those go bad with the wrong hire, we become Fsu/Tennessee/Nebraska. 
 

bama north

November 16th, 2020 at 2:17 AM ^

Jeff Scott’s dad, Brad, was the former HC at So. Carolina.  Brad then became an ast. at Clemson, moved into the AD when Jeff started coaching, and is now the Director of Football Operations at USF.

Jeff would be a great replacement for Muschamp.  I doubt we’ll even get the chance to hire him.

nappa18

November 16th, 2020 at 12:28 PM ^

Meyer is not coming here..less then zero. He doesnt want us and we don’t want him. Fickell maybe 5pct chance. Cristobal the same. Stoops past his peak. Campbell, really? Truth is, we hired our fantasy coach 6 years ago. Didn’t work out. Life is obviously imperfect. And unless he resigns for “personal reasons”, he’ll be back next year probably has to be extended. Can’t see Warde outright firing him now. Become a basketball and hockey fan.

wolve1972

November 16th, 2020 at 12:34 PM ^

If Meyer returns to coaching - a big if - it will be #1 USC or #2 Texas. But the one school he would probably still coach at in a minute is ND if Brian Kelly ever leaves.  He loves both OSU and ND.  And - as we all know - his strength is recruiting which leaves me to believe he'll only coach again in the powerhouse HS states of California, Texas, and Florida. I really don't see him coaching in the Midwest again (outside of ND) with the HS recruiting bases dwindling in those states. But keep in mind, ND still recruits nationally - probably better than anyone. I've read both UM and PSU boards that think throwing a ton of money will land him - won't happen.  And besides. Texas has the money to outbid anyone and probably will. But my pick is USC and all of the Hollywood - LA attraction

kshed

November 17th, 2020 at 9:30 AM ^

Urban had the chance to coach ND and chose to go to Florida instead. I am not sure if he will coach again. The brain cyst is real. I also will not be shocked if he does come back to coaching. I think the key for him coming back would be if he could bring Pantoni (recruiting coordinator) and Marotti (strength coach) from OSU to wherever he goes. I think they feel pretty secure at their jobs right now and Urban is at best a five year gamble at a new gig with his health issues. 

wolve1972

November 17th, 2020 at 10:54 AM ^

Agree with your points. My post was just about IF he ever returns. From what I understand, he's settled into the Columbus area and owns (and part owner) of a few businesses.  And. like you pointed out, his brain cyst is real this time  - unlike the crap he pulled before. He doesn't need the money and really seems to enjoy his broadcasting job. Another point is he's currently the asst. athletic director as OSU and might have the inside track to the AD position when Gene Smith retires in a couple of years or so. Besides, he always seems to flame out in 5 to 7 years on a coaching position.

My choice would be Fickell or Campbell but we'll have stiff competition for both.  Fickell (a Columbus native) would jump at the OSU job in a minute so I'd be happy with Campbell. That would be a home run hire !  Of course, I said the same about JH so don't put too much stock in what I say or hope for.

 

 

 

 

A_Maized

November 16th, 2020 at 1:35 PM ^

Urban can’t be hired but a big time offer should be going to Mark Pantoni who is the backbone of the program. Overlooked by some but he is why they recruit so well and why they develop.  He likely isn’t hireable either, but I’d double his salary and make him say no.  

FrozeMangoes

November 15th, 2020 at 11:53 PM ^

I think UM needs to start worrying about things it can control and stop comparing itself to OSU.  Get talent develop that talent.  Field a disciplined team that uses its talent and wins will take care of themselves.  

My choice for replacement is Matt Campbell.  He recruited Kareem Hunt, David Montgomery and Breece Hall.  He knows how to find difference makers in the backfield and that is critical in today's game.  

His first year at ISU with a team devoid of high end talent only lost to Oklahoma by 10, then beat them the following year when they were #3 in the nation.  He beat #4 TCU that same year and beat Oklahoma again this year.  He was also the first guy to ever win 6 Big 12 games at ISU. 

Agree with your sentiment that recruiting needs to be emphasized more. Need more youth and energy. 

raleighwood

November 16th, 2020 at 9:55 AM ^

I think that I'm on the Matt Campbell train as well.  He checks a lot of boxes.  Young (40 years old).  From B1G Country (grew up in Massillon, OH, played at Mount Union,).  Current P5 Coach (Iowa State....and Iowa is B1G Country).  Competed Against The Big Boys (beat Oklahoma twice in five tries).

I'm really intrigued that he has beaten Oklahoma twice in that it demonstrates his ability to compete with a high flying offense (like OSU).  I don't know that he's the best choice.....but he's certainly worth a look.  I'm really glad that Jim Harbaugh came back to Michigan but it's time for him to go.

 

KentuckianaWolverine

November 16th, 2020 at 12:04 AM ^

OSU became the juggernaut that they are, because Tressel owned Carr.  Tressel also won a national championship during the Carr owning days.  Carr won a national championship in his first couple of seasons....with Mohler's recruits.  Carr lost to "underdogs" constantly, and always had 3-4 losses.  Lost most bowl games, as well.  Carr also had the most embarrassing moment in Michigan football history.....which is considered the greatest upset of all time....losing to a 1AA football team, when Michigan was ranked #5.  OSU was sitting there.....gaining steam.  Then....Carr retired, and systematically sunk the program, on his way out.  He talked players into going pro and transferring, and left the roster in shambles.  So much was his influence that NFL guys ON NATIONAL TV would say they were from "Lloyd Carr's Wolverines".  Making it very difficult on his replacement.  Then, the local media jumped in the mix, and made Michigan look bad, due to "stretchgate".  Recruits saw Michigan being a laughing stock....while Tressel was thriving.  Then....Michigan goes out and hires a guy that had no business being the Head Football coach at Michigan.  This guy starts losing to really bad teams, has "concussiongate", and was losing badly to MSU and OSU every year.  MSU suddenly became the top instate football program.  OSU continued to thrive.  They had to get rid of Tressel, and Fickle lost in his interim year.  The next season....they hire one of the best coaches in history, and that team goes undefeated, while Michigan had yet another losing season.  The VERY NEXT SEASON.....OSU wins ANOTHER National Championship!  Recruits really are on board with OSU at this point, and Michigan has had ZERO success in their lifetimes.  Then comes Harbaugh.  By his second season....every conversation was about how he couldn't "beat his rivals".  Recruits saw that, while OSU was still going to playoffs and winning more Conference Championships. 

This isn't a "how do we get to their level" thing, anymore.  This is about getting our own heads out of our own asses, and quit acting like this is still the 1940's.  OSU took advantage of us being down, and now that hill may just be too much to climb.  They are rolling, while we trash our Coaches, every chance we get.  Guess what.....recruits read blogs like this.  Would you come to that school?  

bluebyyou

November 16th, 2020 at 8:20 AM ^

Our coaches are trashing themselves.  You can argue about everything under the sun but the only metric that truly counts is the won and loss record and of late, that isn't very impressive.

I'm so tired of the "Michigan man" meme, Bo and the often-suggested idea that our shit don't stink as well as the idea that you can't succeed in life without Michigan academics.

GoBLUE_SemperFi

November 16th, 2020 at 8:53 AM ^

I agree with your summary completely, but I don't agree with your conclusion.  MSU gave the Rutger it's first B1G win in 21 games, they have a first year coach that everyone mocked for coming up with some silly "team down the road" garbage, their talent level is WAY behind that of Michigan's...and they still beat Harbaugh and Brown, at home, convincingly.

 

Harbaugh and staff clowned themselves, we're (I'm) just done making excuses and apologizing for them.

rob f

November 16th, 2020 at 10:17 AM ^

While you yourself just did a pretty good job of "trashing" our coaches.

Exaggerate much?

Lloyd was 6-7 in bowl games, so while you're technically correct that he lost most of his Bowl games, just barely.  Lloyd had his share of big wins in major bowl games

Greatest upset of all time? Mostly a Michigan hater's talking point, App St was the defending 2-time FCS (1-AA) National Champs and went on to win their 3rd straight that season.  Losing to Toledo a couple years later, IMO, was worse.

Blaming Lloyd for RichRod's woes is another waaay-overused theme.  While yes, he did apparently discuss all options with some of his players, it's also known that RichRod didn't go out of his way to immediately connect with the team and in particular, with many of the potential returning starters.

There was no "sabatoge".

And unlike Brady Hoke, who adjusted his offensive and defensive schemes initially to make use of the talent he inherited, RichRod stubbed his own toes by forcing his offensive and defensive schemes on players who were physically and experience-wise much better suited to a completely different style of play.  With the returning defensive talent alone, there was absolutely no excuse for a sub-.500 record in year one, let alone going 3-9 when becoming bowl eligible would instead have been a major step in building a contending team for the following season.

And I'm not even going to go into all the head-scratching hires as assistant coaches under Rodriguez.

DoubleB

November 16th, 2020 at 12:05 AM ^

If you really want to get from Point A to Point B, Harbaugh is simply a symptom of the underlying issue. This is an athletic department that is still steeped in the traditions of Bo from the 1970s. You have to clean it out from top to bottom. And that's everyone except coaches in other sports. Every AD, every associate AD, every support staff person (S&C, trainers, even administrative assistants). EVERYBODY.

Why? Because the athletic culture at Michigan isn't the culture of modern college football. And while many of these people you'd have to let go I'm sure are good at their jobs, they've been inculcated in a way of doing things that is, to some extent, producing what we see on the field on Saturdays.

RichRod was a bad fit from almost any vantage point. But the way he was treated as the head coach at Michigan by fellow Wolverines was abominable. It is also a microcosm of a Michigan football culture where there is a right way (Bo) and a wrong way (about anything else). It's elitist and arrogant, and most damning, it's long past its prime in terms of success. 

The road to beginning to turn around the Michigan football program begins with truly terminating the everlasting shadow of Bo Schembechler and the culture he set it up at Michigan 50 years ago.

colonel

November 16th, 2020 at 7:25 PM ^

I don't know what it's like inside the building from an attitude standpoint, but I figure Michigan already has the facilities and the resources to be part of the modern college football "elite." We need the right coach. The right guy could bring in three or four Daxton Hills a year, as opposed to one every three. Finding a coach of that caliber is obviously not easy.

It's possible that we've simply struck out on three consecutive coaching hires. The strikeouts on the first two had a lot to do with the AD's at the time -- I totally agree that many inside of and around the program totally hung RichRod out to dry when he came in. Hiring Brady Hoke at all was a huge mistake born out of the intolerable arrogance of Brandon. Perhaps it's an oversimplification, but we bought high with Harbaugh -- a program legend with a sterling track record who had peaked as a coach already, as it turns out. He's been terrible these last two seasons (and quite spotty in the previous two), and that might just be because he's not that good as a coach, or at least as a steward of a big-time college program.

We have a different AD now, and if the hockey and basketball programs are any indication, he might make a program changing hire. He might not though. I wish I knew.

antonio_sass

November 16th, 2020 at 12:17 AM ^

It seems like most people haven't taken this into account: Where's the the Jim Harbaugh who throws his headset and rips his clothing off to play touch football. Where's the guy who climbs into treehouses with recruits and sleeps in their yard? His fire was extinguished after visiting Italy. Italy is famous for pizza, and is where Kobe Bryant grew up. 

Who was Kobe supposed to be the heir apparent to? Michael Jordan. Anyone else notice when we signed with Jordan Brand we got better at basketball and worse at football? Coincidence? Let's go deeper. 

Our men's basketball coach is Juwan Howard. He is tall. You know who else is tall, compared to the average American male? Jim Harbaugh. Tom Izzo is short. I couldn't find Ryan Day's height on the internet, but he also seems to be fairly short.

Who else is short? Most of our wide receivers. Who's tall? Most of our corners. Now we're getting somewhere. If Jim Harbaugh was truly running a meritocracy, he'd play the best players regardless of height. Tall receivers and short corners? If they're the best, you play them. Instead, he seems to have a preference for handsy corners. 

You know who else is handsy? Jim Harbaugh, in terms of meddling in Josh Gattis' playcalling. We run up the middle? That's Harbaugh. We go under center? That's Harbaugh. We have a quarterback run from shotgun? That's Gattis. We sneak it from shotgun on 4th down at the half yard line?  Well, if you're catching my drift so far, you probably know the answer... 

Don Brown. What does Don Brown have on his face? A mustache. 

Who else has a mustache? Mariners pitcher Randy "The Unit" Johnson. 

Who else? Blake Bortles.

Where's he FROM? You guessed it, Italy. Actually, Florida. 

Who coached at Florida when Aaron Hernandez played? 

URBAN MEYER. 

And what did Urban Meyer eat after losing the BIG TEN championship game to Michigan State (also, where Tom Izzo coaches) in 2013. 

Yep...