How clear do you think the decision is at QB?

Submitted by Eye of the Tiger on

*If* there is a decision to be made. We don't know how serious Speight's injury is, but we have a bye, so it's conceivable he is healthy by MSU. If that were to be the case, do you think O'Korn is clearly the guy? Or do you think it's still an open question? 

I feel like it's got to be O'Korn--he was more accurate, he's mobile and his skills seem to offset the issues we have in pass pro and with WRs/TEs not running routes perfectly. But I'm also wary of making too much of what was basically one very good half of football--even if it was the *only* good half of football our offense has had this year. And the staff is clearly seeing stuff in practice that we don't.  

What do you guys think?

Eye of the Tiger

September 24th, 2017 at 11:34 PM ^

..I think my main fear is that O'Korn will follow a similar trajectory as Tate Forcier...unstoppable early but then flummoxable once good teams adjust to his scrambling tendencies. 

Now, granted, if our 2009 offense was paired with our 2017 defense, 2009 would have gone very differently. We don't need to be great at offense, just good enough. So maybe "Tate Forcier who studies film and doesn't slack off" is actually a very good solution to our problems right now. 

 

EDIT: just for fun, I looked at our 2009 team. The only games where we failed to score 20 were PSU, Illinois and OSU. So with a good defense, and that offense (which was okay but not great), we might have gone 9-3 instead of 5-9. 

big john lives on 67

September 24th, 2017 at 11:11 PM ^

I was one calling for patience with Speight as he adjusted to his new offensive teammates this season. However, it is clear to me after watching the game on Saturday that Speight is shattered mentally and physically after the events from the end of last season to the beginning of this one. Our OL is partly to blame for this. O'Korn can move much better, including throwing on the run, which will be an important skill until the line can improve performance and consistency. My hope is that Johnny has found the sweet spot between the freshman, Houston gunslinger and the humble, cautious game manager from last year. I hope the talk of Pep improving his confidence and performance is at least partially true.

Indiana Blue

September 25th, 2017 at 10:03 AM ^

this is football.  It is a seriously physical game that injures players every game.  Trying to place blame is just stupid.  If the Purdue player doesn't hit Speight late then WS stays in the game (and likely our offensive malaise continues).  Tom Brady got his one chance with the Patriots and looked what has happened since ... and just maybe JOK is very capable to lead this team offensively.  With our defense, an average offense will keep us in every game!

Go Blue! 

EGD

September 25th, 2017 at 7:45 AM ^

Is there even a single person calling for Speight? It seems like the only real difference is between the people who have no doubt that JOK will replicate his Purdue performance against all other opponents and then the people who hope he will, but aren't convinced.

powhound

September 24th, 2017 at 11:21 PM ^

I’m not the coach!
Speight is very (too) cautious and Harbaugh likes that knowing they have a great defense. O’Korn is less cautious, looked confident, moved the team and scored in the red zone and has the same defense.
If Speight starts, I will be very disappointed!

Amutnal

September 25th, 2017 at 1:16 AM ^

Despite Speight’s “caution” he’s been single-handedly responsibly for 10-14 point swings against us going back to Iowa. Bumbled handoff on the 1 at OSU and again this season multiple times. Indecision. Terribly missed wide open receivers and piss poor passes that don’t even give he receiver a chance to make a play. Terrible pocket presence in terms of knowing when to throw the ball away. I don’t want to pile on the guy, But his caution gives the same result as someone who takes risks but without the possibility of reward.

UMxWolverines

September 24th, 2017 at 11:23 PM ^

Sorry but Speight has been a liability all season minus a half of Florida. Some of his picks haven't been his fault, but the high throws and fumbles are killing us. After the tipped ball which Perry even went over to O'Korn and blamed himself for, he played quite well. Better than we have seen Speight play since Florida.

ppToilet

September 24th, 2017 at 11:23 PM ^

The game yesterday was won because Purdue only had enough gas for 2 1/2 quarters. While O'Korn played admirably, I think Speight would've also won the game in the 3rd and 4th quarters. Michigan seems to be running a gameplan similar to what they did in the 1980s and what Wisconsin and Stanford do now - wear you out over the course of 60 minutes. Make halftime adjustments, etc.

So, whether it's Speight, O'Korn, or Peters (or McCaffery), the key will be the blocking improving. We won't get away with the same gameplan against Wisconsin or PSU...

Rodriguesqe

September 24th, 2017 at 11:26 PM ^

One thing I haven't seen mentioned: people were down on Peters in part because he was "even behind okorn". Well, suddenly that doesn't sound necessarilly bad like it did a week ago.

 

Wolverine62bc

September 24th, 2017 at 11:29 PM ^

Wilton was always nimble and had good mobility, in my viewer opinion, last year. Could the dramatic weight loss, although controlled by the Michigan athletic staff affect muscles, etc. again, a millimeter here or there can make a difference - Like a golfer adjusting his-her swing. Mechanics could have changed - instincts now become thinking about the swing or pass. Something changed from Iowa onwards last year and it's not his "drive," commitment or skill. Want the best QB under center and trust Coach Harbsugh! Like a wilt be class ... Any thoughts?

Wolverine62bc

September 24th, 2017 at 11:29 PM ^

Wilton was always nimble and had good mobility, in my viewer opinion, last year. Could the dramatic weight loss, although controlled by the Michigan athletic staff affect muscles, etc. again, a millimeter here or there can make a difference - Like a golfer adjusting his-her swing. Mechanics could have changed - instincts now become thinking about the swing or pass. Something changed from Iowa onwards last year and it's not his "drive," commitment or skill. Want the best QB under center and trust Coach Harbsugh! Like a wilt be class ... Any thoughts?

Double-D

September 24th, 2017 at 11:31 PM ^

Speight gets a little pressure and takes off running to the right and out of bounds. Punt. We had a tight end curl over the middle wide open and I swear Speight had to be looking right at him before he made the decision to run. It was the easiest throw for a 1st down you will ever see...or not see I guess. I hate to say it but I agree something is not right with WS right now. He needs a rest.

HarBooYa

September 25th, 2017 at 11:53 AM ^

The play I was hung up on too. Good call. That was a key third down too. He panicked and progressed to fast. TE came up by design. Speight had time. Ran into traffic.

Once you see that, watch, he does it way too often. If he was clean back there and didn't have to roll, might be a contest. But it's not. OKorn is an easy call here.

The Fan in Fargo

September 24th, 2017 at 11:31 PM ^

JOK gives the team the best in game chance to win. Wilton is better at selling himself to the coaches socially and through his practice production. This is an obvious observation to me but I've always held back writing it. If Wilton gets the starting job back and keeps throwing terrible passes, I'm prepared to do something else on my Saturday afternnoon. There, I fricking spilled my guts.

MgoBlueprint

September 24th, 2017 at 11:32 PM ^

Everyone talks about “pre-Iowa speight” like that version was good. Pre Iowa speight was slightly better than this version.

Speight has struggled against quality teams. Numbers were padded against teams that barely had a pulse.

I’m sure someone on here has a breakdown of speights numbers in the Wisconsin, Colorado, Iowa, osu, and FSU games vs the rest of the schedule. I’m pretty sure the offense averaged like 17 ppg November 2016 and in the bowl game



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The Fan in Fargo

September 24th, 2017 at 11:52 PM ^

Let's not pretend that JOK's in game experience wasn't a little bit rusty there in the first half. That is a tough thing to do on the road and up against the wall against a good Purdue team that very easily could've been on the brink of putting that game away with a few more trick plays. I said Speight isn't a killer and won't win the team a B1G title. Johnny is a ruthless and spunky assasin baby!! Just get it done!!

maize-blue

September 25th, 2017 at 12:25 AM ^

It just finished the BTN in 60 re-run. Being able to see the throws in rapid succession really hammer it home that it has to be JOK moving forward. He's not perfect and has his flaws but the offense felt more open and alive.

MichiganMan14

September 25th, 2017 at 12:53 AM ^

If we want to win the B1G. It's got to be O'Korn. He has a higher ceiling and more arm talent. Also more physical talent. Speight is bigger but the game seems too fast for him often. I like Speight but this isn't about liking. We have a B1G title to win and I think O'Korn can bring it home.

BlowGoo

September 24th, 2017 at 11:54 PM ^

If O'Korn doesn't quicken his release, the question of who should start becomes kind of moot, as O'Korn will soon be [superstition prevents me from actually typing the "i" word here] anyway.

We need better OL play.

Carcajou

September 25th, 2017 at 12:00 AM ^

Assuming they are both healthy, it's a tough call. While I would personally prefer to see O'Korn for various reasons, and hopefully Saturday's performance dispelled some lingering doubts in the minds of the coaches about his ability to perform under game pressure, I could very well see Harbaugh not wanting to send the message that players (especially QBs) are susceptible to losing their spot due to injury. You want a QB to be smart, but fearless in the pocket for example, not worrying that a sack or any kind of contact could result in  injury meaning that he might lose his position.

I think it's going to depend on the status of Speight's injury, and if he is recovered, competition in practice next week. To have Speight and O'Korn physically and mentally healthy and playing with confidence would be the ideal situation in case anything should happen to either of them. Peters and McCaffrey are greater unknowns, and would probably only be entrusted with a limited portion of the offense.

Even if Speight starts, I would expect to see more of O'Korn against MSU than we saw in the AFA and Cincinnati games. Knock on wood that it doesn't happen, but O'Korn could easily get injured even if he does start, and we will need Speight before the season is over, and most likely next year as well.

RadioMuse

September 24th, 2017 at 11:59 PM ^

Assuming the full two weeks of practice from both, I think it will be close. I still have faith in the coaching staff that whoever steps on the field against the Spartans will perform well against a questionable secondary. They will be prepared and have the gameplan down.

I suspect it will be O'Korn since his quick-release and ability to extend plays with his feet are both huge assets behind our questionable pass protection. It seemed to me that the coaches had him reading the intermediate routes first (rather than going through the full high-to-low progression) in the second half. I suspect this was a potential gameplan adjustment regardless of who was under center - but it's something I wanted to see. Our deepest options this year are true freshman (Black - get well soon! and DPJ) or a true sophomore who's shown little aptitute at adjusting to the deep ball (Crawford).

The shallower routes have Perry and a platoon of blocky-catchy types running free for 10 yards on the majority of plays. If we can hit those and sustain drives it'll take heat off the running game, which in turn will allow us to pound the rock more. Once the offense starts staying on schedule the play-action deep shots will pop open as they roll safeties up and leave a corner 1-on-1 with DPJ.

It's amazing how when stuff isn't working on offense, nothing works - but when anything works enough to dictate a response from your opponent, the whole playbook works.

Carcajou

September 25th, 2017 at 12:14 AM ^

I expect MSU will try to take away the middle and crossing routes from the TEs and dropping down Safeties and playing Robber coverages or blitzing, and make Michigan beat them by throwing to wide receivers to the outside, with the Spartan corners playing one-on-one being very physical with them.  Michigan (and particularly O'Korn) and the young receivers have not yet shown they are capable of doing that, or that the pass protection can hold up. If Michigan can do that, expect some big plays, and let's hope whoever is throwing can be accurate and take advantage.

ryebreadboy

September 25th, 2017 at 12:00 AM ^

I'd say JOK at least earned the start with his play. After that, see how it goes, but I think if he practices well you reward that preparation and moxie hat won us a game.

UMgradMSUdad

September 25th, 2017 at 12:06 AM ^

Last year Speight was clearly the better QB. But Speight seems not to have progressed, maybe even regressed some.  He's not as confident nor as adept as he was up until the Iowa game last year, especially when the pocket is breaking down. I don't really blame him based on the hits he's taken and the injuries he's had.  

O'Korn seems to have progressed quite a bit from last year.  His instinct last year when the pocket was breaking down was to tuck and run, trying to pick up yards with his feet.  That works sometimes, but he's not a gifted enough runner to make that work most of the time, and that doesn't seem to be what Harbaugh wants out of a QB.  This year I've not noticed that same tendency. He seems more willing to move around to avoid the rush but look to pass first, even when there is pressure.

It almost seems as though Speight and O'Korn are on opposite trajectories, and unless that changes, O'Korn seems to be the better option.

VauntedD

September 25th, 2017 at 12:11 AM ^

O'Korn's ability to think and throw on the run is much better than WS's running scared for out of bounds. Plus how do you routinely throw too high 6' to 6'7" receivers and tight ends? O'Korn got everyone involved as well through his ability to think and throw on the run.

ca_prophet

September 25th, 2017 at 1:06 AM ^

I am definitely glad that JOK played well yesterday.  That was a far cry from Indiana.  However, Purdue's defense is ... um, not good.

I remain unconvinced that we can beat OSU (or PSU) with JOK running a simplified game plan, or with a QB that isn't getting full time with the starters, especially the freshman WRs with whom he must be on the same page.

Beyond that, it depends on whether you weight the last three games more than last year for one, and a good half more than Indiana for JOK.

Of course, the coaches have practices to weight too, and we don't, and the coaches will have a far better guess at whether both are 100%.

Given what we know so far, if Speight is 100% I think he's the starter, because I think that gives us the best chance to best PSU or OSU.

Sten Carlson

September 25th, 2017 at 1:35 AM ^

Respectfully ... Two questions: 1) what does beating MSU have do with beating PSU and OSU? 2) Purdue defense aside, was JOK lead Michigan offense the better, the same, or worse looking than the Michigan offense under WS? To me, the answers are: Nothing, and vastly better! To me, if we're going to beat PSU away, at night, we're going have to score points, not just play defense. Barkley is AMAZING and even with our great D, he's likely going to get his. What have you seen from WS that makes you think he's going to score against a defense like pSU's or OSU's? I've been the biggest WS supporter, but again, the contrast was STARK!

ca_prophet

September 25th, 2017 at 3:20 PM ^

1.  Beating MSU is a stepping stone to beating PSU or OSU.  In a world where both QBs are 100%, and our OL is what it is, the thing that would hold our offense back is 10-man football.  Getting everyone on the same page and building chemistry would reduce that, and so you want the person with the best chance of accomplishing that long-term to get every chance to do it.  Thus, you make that guy the starter now, so he gets the extra two weeks of practice with the #1s and the extra game to build everything up.

2.  Definitely vastly better!  The question is whether or not that is due to a simplified game plan and Purdue's defensive (lack of prowess) and hence whether or not it is applicable to beating PSU and OSU.

One thing that Brian noted should give us hope - the downfield passing game with the TEs was decidedly present.  Was it that JOK is more comfortable with them than the nominal #1 Bunting?  Why did we run those routes now and not earlier, or did WS just miss the opportunities.

To be clear, I want the QB with the best chance of getting us silverware.  If both are healthy, then the coaching staff, with much more information and expertise than we have, decided WS was better.  Were they wrong?  Tune in against MSU to find out!

 

stephenrjking

September 25th, 2017 at 1:09 AM ^

I want to see O'Korn start against MSU. The challenge now is that even if Speight clearly wins practice, there is no way that he doesn't have an ultra-short leash for weeks. All it would take is three bad offensive series and the players and coaches would believe that O'Korn would need a chance to come in. To say nothing of the fans. That puts a lot of pressure on Wilton early if he steps back in. All it takes is a blocking whiff in the first possession and he's looking at 3rd and 12 from his own 18 with O'Korn ready to play the next series if he can't get it done. But I don't think that will happen. Harbaugh doesn't just pull a rug out from a QB who has won the job, but he also doesn't feel obligated to keep that QB in if the backup gets a shot and shows he's got it. O'Korn has it.

Brian8603

September 25th, 2017 at 2:01 AM ^

O'Korn won the job for the MSU game. Was handed the job in a difficult situation and played very well. There's no way Speight is 100% for MSU by Oct. 7, even if he recovers quickly and plays lights out in practice, so it has to be O'Korn. He gets a full two weeks to be the man, get the reps, and have the offensive staff design a gameplan around him.

South TX MFan

September 25th, 2017 at 1:20 AM ^

The biggest difference I saw between the 2 QB's was JOK getting the ball out on time. Speight just takes too damn long sometimes to throw the ball and gets out of sync with the receivers. I don't know if he's gunshy after the 2 pick sixes against Florida or if he just hasn't meshed with these receivers or what but the difference is obvious.

Sten Carlson

September 25th, 2017 at 1:26 AM ^

I've supported WS, and continue to -- as a Michigan man. After seeing JOK, it's clear to me that (as many in here have said) WS has something mentally holding him back. Whether it's trying to hard, fear of interceptions/mistakes, or apprehension of injury, the contrast between the offense under JOK and WS was stark. Everything seemed to work better under JOK, and It seems likely WS was the cause of Red Zone struggles as JOK immediately converted 100%. That's not a fluke, IMO. If he went 1 for 3 I'd be inclined to be sceptical. If I saw a lot of struggle, I'd be skeptical. Instead, I saw one poor throw and JOK actually making dynamic plays instead of simply not screwing up. I respect WS, and wish him well, but I think Harbaugh has to give JOK the nod with the thought that who better to come off the bench, if needed, than WS?

Jon06

September 25th, 2017 at 2:07 AM ^

He was mostly boom Saturday, except for the interception. I think a healthy Speight is still better, and also that Speight would've benefitted from the playcalling JOK got. But I also think Speight got seriously hurt, so we'll get JOK going forward. Hopefully all of the optimism about him is justified by what we get on the field the rest of the season.

Fox McCloud

September 25th, 2017 at 9:59 AM ^

Because Purdue was consistently selling out against the run and blitzing the ends on obvious passing down. JH said in the presser they decided to shift play calls to quick passes to soften up the box. That being said I truly don't know if Speight makes some of those passes based on what we've seen this year so far.