October 19th, 2022 at 8:20 PM ^
Houstan held his own defensively on a few Bogdonavich drives. 1 rebound, 0-2 from 3 are the half. Franz is doing his thing filling up the stat sheet.
Ivey, Duren and Banchero have all looked good. Duren had a monster dunk.
October 19th, 2022 at 9:51 PM ^
Duren had a monster dunk.
Send it in Jerome.
October 19th, 2022 at 8:44 PM ^
Nobody on the Magic can guard Ivey. Definitely will take the offensive pressure off Cade this year.
October 19th, 2022 at 8:55 PM ^
Houstan 0/3 with a minus15 in 19 minutes. This is not a Jordan Poole story.
October 19th, 2022 at 8:57 PM ^
It’s his first game, dude. Poole didn’t exactly light the world on fire his rookie year. Also, +\- doesn’t mean a thing in basketball.
October 19th, 2022 at 9:21 PM ^
True, Poole's first game as a Warrior wasn't great.
I do think, though, that fans need to stop trying to equate his move with Poole's. Poole showed in college an ability to make plays with and without the ball that Houstan simply didn't while at UM and similarly struggled to do so in the preseason. He's a talented guy but he absolutely was drafted based on potential more than anything he showed in college, and while I hope he succeeds I don't think fans should create some alternative history where he was better at UM than he was.
October 20th, 2022 at 1:27 AM ^
I don't think anybody has created some alternative history where Houstan was a superstar at Michigan, but while we're discussing it, I think Michigan fans on this board need to stop creating an alternate history that all rookies need to be a superstar from day one and long, athletic wings with a good stroke and huge wingspan aren't valuable in the NBA.
This board also lost their minds about Scottie Barnes being drafted in the lottery, and he went on to win ROY.
October 20th, 2022 at 6:16 AM ^
You're overstating everything here - nobody has ever claimed Houstan was a superstar. Nobody ever said anyone has to be a superstar in college. And nobody lost their minds about Scottie Barnes.
Talk about hyperbole...
October 20th, 2022 at 10:11 AM ^
People here seem to regularly lament Houstan's potential because he didn't light it up all night every night in a Michigan uniform, so how could he possibly do it in the NBA. This very post is seeing everyone saying not to compare him to Poole, that Poole was actually good, etc. Not saying Houstan will have Poole's trajectory, but I see more people overreacting about Houstan and implying he will never make it in the NBA than I see people with measured takes who actually realize the NBA is ALL about upside and having the size/athleticism necessary to be in the league.
People very much did lose their minds about Barnes. Maybe not the entire board, but I had multiple interactions with commenters expressing utter confusion about how Barnes was selected so high and them receiving many upvotes. Likewise, this board was melting down about Weaver's signing of Jerami Grant and the team's draft picks that year (Bey, Stew). So, yeah, when it comes to basketball, this board doesn't have a great track record.
October 20th, 2022 at 10:29 AM ^
It's clear some people are saying he has NBA athleticism and some are saying he looks stiff and doesn't have agility. After watching him for a year, I don't see NBA agility so he better be great shooter. I think he made a great move to go in the draft in order to maximize his value while this is still a question that some feel needs to be answered. I'm rooting for him and hope he succeeds.
October 20th, 2022 at 10:27 AM ^
I never said people thought of him as a superstar but there was a number of people who kept talking about him all last year like he was more than an average college freshman who just played a lot of minutes because UM had depth issues. That isn't an indictment of him as a person but when you come in as a 5* NBA-ready player and you scuttle that's going to be jarring to people especially when your peers do better. And honestly, the thread about his summer league performance had a couple of people going off about how everyone was wrong about him because he scored 20 points in a single game, which wound up being his only good performance of SL.
Also, Houstan wasn't particularly athletic in college - that was the big thing that seemed to hamstring him in college. He struggled against the better athletes in the conference when he couldn't rely on his size. You assume that'll be worked on somewhat with an NBA training room but it's a major limitation.
Also, Scottie Barnes being drafted #4 seemed high but it wasn't a huge surprise he was drafted as a lottery pick; unlike Houstan he had a really good freshman year and was clearly an NBA-level athlete who probably benefitted from better coaching than he was getting in college at FSU. That's likely not the same with UM, where Howard has shown an ability to develop guys, especially big men, into top-level players.
October 20th, 2022 at 3:36 PM ^
Yes but we all can agree that a 5 star freshman should be able to produce in college. All Houstan did was inconsistent shooting, little athleticism, ok defense. Diabate couldn’t catch passes at the end of the season. I wish them all the best in the league but I don’t expect much. I thought Poole had the athleticism and shot to make it in the league, just thought he left a year earlier than he should have
October 19th, 2022 at 9:45 PM ^
Poole had game, athleticism, and upside. Houstan never flashed that against D1 players. He wont make it. I wish him well but this is not a Jordan Poole story. He's much too stiff and not quick enough. His shooting is not very good having a pretty shot doesnt mean youre going to be a good shooter.
October 19th, 2022 at 9:17 PM ^
Oddly familiar
October 19th, 2022 at 9:31 PM ^
Poole spent 2 years at Michigan, Houstan was only here for one.
I thought he should have stayed another year, but he didn't... tough to compare the two at this stage of their respective development arcs.
October 19th, 2022 at 11:32 PM ^
Why compare Poole and Houstan when you can watch Poole and Houston?
October 19th, 2022 at 9:05 PM ^
Duren is really playing well. He could be a good one.
October 19th, 2022 at 9:08 PM ^
Wasn’t expecting him to look this good this early.
October 19th, 2022 at 9:52 PM ^
He definitely passes the eye test. That's an NBA body at 19 years old. Nickel and dime comp... young Tyson Chandler?
October 19th, 2022 at 10:13 PM ^
I'm not an expert but I don't think Tyson Chandler was half as athletic as Duren is right now.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:22 PM ^
So maybe you're remembering late career Chandler with busted knees? 19 year old Chandler straight out of High School was all athletic. No real shot to speak of. But he was big, he was broad, he could rim run (reb and d) and dunk. That was Chicago Chandler, by the end of his career almost 20 years later, he was much more plodding, still no real outside threat, but a crafty post player with a big body and still a knack for boards and D, but definitely a different player.
Also, FWIW it was a "nickel and dime comp" ... I didn't put much thought into it other than Chandler had a similar "pro" body at a young age.
October 20th, 2022 at 5:33 PM ^
Tyson Chandler was an absolutely athletic freak coming out of high school.
October 19th, 2022 at 11:21 PM ^
I think the comp is Dwight Howard. Not even sure I would say nickel and dime, playstyle and build are eerily similar
October 19th, 2022 at 11:35 PM ^
no.....the comp is chris webber
October 19th, 2022 at 11:42 PM ^
CWebb liked to dribble. Even in Golden State he had a few times where he went coast to coast. Young CW was an unbelievable passer out of the post for his age. He could read a double like very few.
I'm not sure Duren has the same skillset as CW at 19. That's just me though, willing to be convinced otherwise.
October 20th, 2022 at 6:27 AM ^
I thought Webber when I saw him play in high school but now I don’t. Webber could take it end to end, had somewhat of a post game and outside shot at this age. I haven’t seen that with Duren.
October 19th, 2022 at 11:43 PM ^
I like the Dwight comp, but man... Dwight's size even at 19 was unmatched (except maybe Shaq? Even then, a different type of body). Either way, Dwight was HUGE. Here he is as a rookie teen:
October 20th, 2022 at 6:52 AM ^
Duren is way more fast twitch than Chandler.. I would say Chris Webber or a young and healthy Antonio McDyess. Probably not quite as elite as both but close skill set.
I watched him alot at Memphis and he's a grown man.
October 19th, 2022 at 9:08 PM ^
That’s neat but since they’re playing the pistons I hope they lose.
October 19th, 2022 at 9:15 PM ^
Now I can root for Ivey when he drives past somebody and scores. I haven't seen the whole game, but damn, he's quick.
October 19th, 2022 at 9:16 PM ^
Ivey with 19, Duren with 14 and 10. Fun game.
October 19th, 2022 at 9:22 PM ^
Hayes is such a liability.
October 19th, 2022 at 9:23 PM ^
Pistons not looking too good down the stretch. Damn, important FTs were made, much needed.
October 19th, 2022 at 9:26 PM ^
Stewart for 3!!!
October 19th, 2022 at 9:27 PM ^
Holy shit Stew for 3
October 19th, 2022 at 9:28 PM ^
Huge shot from Stewart.
Just gotta close out these last 5 seconds.
October 19th, 2022 at 9:29 PM ^
Yay, made FTs!!
October 19th, 2022 at 9:31 PM ^
Good first game. A bunch of positives.
October 19th, 2022 at 9:36 PM ^
I’m excited to watch this team even if they may only be a .500 team or so by the end of the season.
October 19th, 2022 at 9:37 PM ^
STONES
October 19th, 2022 at 9:38 PM ^
Great win. Now start tanking…
i thought Houstan looker better defensively than I expected but he’s going to have to knock down some 3’s to keep getting minutes.
Franz looked great and Banchero is a monster, perennial all star type.
October 19th, 2022 at 9:44 PM ^
Jalen Duren, 14 pts, 10 rbs, 1st double double in a rookie debut in franchise history.
Stewart was 1-4 from 3.
October 19th, 2022 at 9:48 PM ^
Several rookies looked good in this game. Houstan was not one of them.
October 20th, 2022 at 7:13 AM ^
Good point. I'm surprised Houstan is even in a position to be getting significant playing time.
October 20th, 2022 at 4:53 PM ^
The Magic were missing multiple players.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:09 PM ^
A comment on Houstan. Recall what the Mgoblog folks said. The hope was for Houstan to play the stretch four position. The reasoning is Houstan was a defense liability at the SF position. This would work for college. There is no way Houstan has the strength to play PF at the NBA level or the agility to measure up against NBA SF's.
The only way Houstan can remain in the league is become a consistent sniper. Except he was not this in college. The quality of Houstan's looks in college were far higher than what he is going to see in the NBA. Unfortunately, you get that by lots of game time, not riding the bench.
What is the difference between Houstan or Livers except one is four years younger. That is the only reason the Magic are taking a shot. My theory is that Houstan unlike Wagner is not confident in his game and took the money as he does have value because of his age. If Houstan were 23, he would be worthless to the Magic as they would say you are who you are.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:18 PM ^
There’s a huge difference between Livers and Houstan. Livers plays great defense. He’s going to get a lot of minutes with the Pistons this year. If Bey doesn’t produce, I could see him starting or closing games.
October 20th, 2022 at 7:08 AM ^
You lost me once you compared Houstan to Livers. Not even close to the same type of player level.
So many really good players like Stauskas, or Glen Robinson III struggle to stick around the league or get significant playing time. I get potential, but eventually its going to come down to what can you do for me.
October 20th, 2022 at 11:27 AM ^
To A2Townie. I concur. I would rather have Livers. My point is from the perspective of NBA executives. Livers was a low end 2nd round pick. Houstan was the 32nd pick. My point is Orlando would not use the 32nd pick if Houstan was 23. I believe that Orlando believes that Houstan has a higher ceiling than Livers, but only because of the age difference because Houstan is an unknown.
I have always liked Livers because he is not just a dependable shooter, but does all of the other things. Houstan has some good length. But today he is too slow.