ChiCityWolverine

December 22nd, 2016 at 3:21 PM ^

It's clear he acted inappropriately in some way, but let's not go crazy about this just yet. Everyone has a right to their personal space, but we weren't there and don't know what happened. It doesn't appear that the "victim" was overpowered or harmed physically or mentally. 

Seems likely he was disrespectful to the woman in some way, and didn't behave to the standard of a Michigan athlete. He compounded the mistake by running when confronted by police. That's the story until we have all the facts. 

Joined: 07/08/2011

MGoPoints: 3757

1WhoStayed

December 22nd, 2016 at 4:27 PM ^

Anytime the word "sexual" is included, people jump on their soap box without doing further reading. The charge(s) related to the interaction with the girl is a misdemeanor.

"Criminal Sexual Conduct in the 4th Degree can result from something as simple as touching someone’s leg."

Hope for his sake it's the least offensive of the possible scenarios.

Imagine being 20 years old... out having fun with the guys... and pinching the wrong girl on her behind. Now imagine going to JAIL for that offense and having to register as a SEX OFFENDER for the next 25 years.

And no, I'm not condoning pinching a girl on the bum (or anything else). But we have gone WAY OVERBOARD on some of the reactions to ANYTHING related to men and women.

I'll wait and see before passing judgement. If his actions were much more severe, he'll probably be gone. Hope that's not the case. For his sake - not the team.

(The felony charges related to running from the police are certainly a problem too. But nobody cares about that.)

Joined: 09/07/2015

MGoPoints: 12148

cheesheadwolverine

December 22nd, 2016 at 3:06 PM ^

I am a lawyer, though not one who practices either criminal law or in Michigan.  But just really quickly looking it up, running from police is not resisting arrest.  As far as I can tell he's charged with a felony it has to be assaulting a police officer (MCLA 750.81d) which on the facts as given in the LSJ article looks to be an outrageous overcharge which I expect will get thrown out as soon as he gets appointed counsel to challenge it.

The other one is more concerning though obviously there are no facts even alleged in the article, so who knows.

Joined: 10/25/2008

MGoPoints: 7523

DowntownLJB

December 22nd, 2016 at 3:53 PM ^

a family member of mine, when a college student in a different Michigan college town, was paid a visit by the cops for a "noise violation" from a party he was hosting.  He tried to close his apartment door while talking to the cops, one of whom had his foot in the door jam.  My family member nudged aside the cop to try and close the door, then threw up his arms in reaction as the cop grabbed him by the arm to cuff him.  He was immediately arrested for assaulting an officer and resisting arrest.  I have no idea what happened in Perry's case, but if it was like my family member's situation, it may not have been much at all (for that part of it anyway).

Joined: 10/10/2012

MGoPoints: 2261

Nolongerusingaccount

December 22nd, 2016 at 2:45 PM ^

Agreed. People are really quick to judge. I would have to hear the facts. From context, it sounds like he tried to drunkenly grope some woman who was waiting in line. He's being charged with a misdemeanor which means it wasn't rape. I don't know because the article doesn't have any details.



Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

Joined: 07/13/2012

MGoPoints: 2264

bringthewood

December 22nd, 2016 at 3:16 PM ^

Can you say you never, not once ever made the mistake of grabbing someone's butt? I don't belive I have but if we throw the book at everyone who has, the court dockets would be full. Who knows exactly what happened?

What if he bumped into her in a line - is that assault? There must be a ton of saints posting here who have never made a stupid mistake.

Joined: 09/07/2009

MGoPoints: 5553

M-stache

December 22nd, 2016 at 5:29 PM ^

Grabbing someone's butt without their consent is more than a "mistake." It's a premeditated act that shows you feel entitled to violate someone's autonomy and molest them when you please. Being drunk is no excuse. 

And, yes, I can say I never, not once, grabbed somebody's ass without their permission. I don't see this as a very high bar for behavior. 

 

 

 

Joined: 01/16/2009

MGoPoints: 357

Perkis-Size Me

December 22nd, 2016 at 2:43 PM ^

Got to let the legal process play itself out on this one, but if he's guilty, would be awful hard for me to say that he shouldn't be kicked off the team. 

Putting your hands on a woman is practically a death sentence by itself. But then running from the cops and assaulting one....that's not just asinine. That shows a rather big character flaw. 

Got to be honest: I know I'm not the decision-maker here, and I know that Perry deserves his day in court like everyone else. But if he's found guilty, I'd say he has no place on this team anymore. 

Joined: 11/30/2011

MGoPoints: 106165

bluepow

December 22nd, 2016 at 3:22 PM ^

Putting his hand on a woman was the assault but none of us know a damn thing about how serious it was.  Our modern oversensitivity to these matters and desire to scream "cop" at the slightest indescretion makes it impossible to draw any conclusions.  He could be a total jackass or he could have been around jackasses in a jackass place.  One thing we can be sure of is Harbaugh dug into the details. 

Joined: 11/11/2009

MGoPoints: 3931

crg

December 22nd, 2016 at 4:40 PM ^

The problem with that position is the implied bifurcation into either "serious crime" or "not a crime" - the loss of a graduated scale of severity (aka zero tolerance) plays havoc with a fair punishment. Using a hypothetical example to the present situation, let's have an intoxicated young man place his hand on a woman's behind briefly (and unwanted) in a non-violent manner (I.e. no physical harm). How far should that be punished? Is this truly a sexual assault? If so, should that person be placed on a sex offender list for the rest of their life? There needs to be a rational and proportionate response on those cases.

Joined: 04/30/2015

MGoPoints: 75057

MI Expat NY

December 22nd, 2016 at 4:53 PM ^

Assuming that he put his hand on a woman's butt for some form of sexual gratification (meaning he wanted to grab it for his own purposes, and not an accidental brushing or something along the lines of a coach smacking a backside), then yes, it is sexual assault.  This is an almost universal definition in legal statutes across the country.   The poster I responded to implied that this type of activity isn't a crime (the "screamed 'cop'" line).  It is a crime.  It has been for a while.  Taking it seriously is not being oversensitive.  

Punishment is certainly a different ball of wax.  I don't think an isolated grab of a woman's butt should result in prison time or sex offender registration (something I'm against on principle anyway), or whatever.  That said, forcing guys to go through the hassle of the legal system when they make an unwanted grab at a woman's butt/breast/etc. is not too much punishment, especially if it makes young men, and apparently older men based on what i've read in this thread, more respectful of the women in their world.  

Joined: 07/24/2008

MGoPoints: 8640

crg

December 23rd, 2016 at 1:25 PM ^

You're getting too emotional billy...

I never said innapropriate touching was not a crime - of course it is wrong.  The issue at hand is how serious of a crime is it; the general public attitude to which I was referring earlier seems to treat it equally (or nearly so) as much more severe sexual crimes such as harassment, abuse, rape, etc.  This is why justice should be handled in a cold and logical manner, and not be metted out by those affected by passions and grievances.  Otherwise we go down the road to vigilantism and all of the dangers associated with it (which modern society has tried to weed out).

Joined: 04/30/2015

MGoPoints: 75057

michgoblue

December 22nd, 2016 at 2:44 PM ^

I will assume that this is the incident that led to his suspension / lack of playing time mid-season. 

Very unfortunate, and very disappointing. 

While I expect that many on here will say something along the lines of "Harbaugh should have tossed his ass from the team" or "he should have received a stiffer penalty," please keep in mind a few points:

1.  We only know about the suspension because it was announced and because he wasn't in for like 3 games.  We don't have ANY idea what other punishment Harbaugh may have dished out to Perry for this incident; perhaps he has to seek counseling and stay on a strict schedule with respect to that, and that he also has to volunteer XX number of hours at some important charity; perhaps he is being subjected to the daily Lloyd Carr Big House steps?  Who knows - the only point is that we don't know what punishment Harbaugh gave out and we likely never will, since Harbaugh is unlikely to comment on it;

2.  Perry was arraigned, not convicted.  It seems like a safe bet that he did, in fact, run from the police (which is obviously stupid as hell and worthy of our negative opinion), but we don't know whether he actually committed what I consider to be the far worse offense of unpermitted touching of the female.  He could be innocent, there could be some back story, or, in fact, he could be guilty as hell.  Before we pronounce our internet sentence, we should at least see if he did the crime for which he is accused.

By the way, I am in NO WAY condoning any of Perry's alleged conduct.  I just think that we should see if he actually did that conduct before passing judgment.

Joined: 11/16/2009

MGoPoints: 32198

Ziff72

December 22nd, 2016 at 2:53 PM ^

You said this very well.  

We have no idea of the facts.   Drunk college kids standing in a line has so many outcomes I don't know where to start.  Kicking him off the team is a jump to hyperspeed.    Let's wait for the facts before we go all Duke lacrosse on a kid.  

Joined: 07/07/2008

MGoPoints: 9823