"Faith, Football and the Fervent Religious Culture at Dabo Swinney's Clemson" (SI article)
SI looks at Dabo's Clemson culture:
https://www.si.com/college-football/2019/09/04/clemson-dabo-swinney-religion-culture
Mods, if this is too "political" please remove it (thanks). I thought it might be interesting to many in MGoBlog's readership.
September 5th, 2019 at 10:02 AM ^
They're all for profit, and should be taxed accordingly.
And I think Dabo is full of shit. I don't buy a word of his piety.
September 5th, 2019 at 10:40 AM ^
Agree. A lot of people seem willing to buy into pretty much anything as long as it's cloaked in God and religion.
September 5th, 2019 at 3:35 PM ^
They are not all for profit. That's some ignorant shit. Go up north or come out here to north Jackson county and I'll gladly show you some churches that make your first sentence look about as good as dog shit.
September 5th, 2019 at 9:11 AM ^
I am reminded of the story Jon Horford told on Stu Douglass's podcast about being at Florida with Billy Donovan. Donovan tried to make him talk to a pastor or priest or something. You know what, I'm hazy on the details, but I do know that Horford didn't like it.
September 5th, 2019 at 11:51 AM ^
I'm praying for Clemson to get beat by just about anyone besides OSU.
September 5th, 2019 at 3:27 PM ^
Whatever you say about Clemson (and I'm not a big fan of the program), they're 3-0 all time against Ohio State.
September 5th, 2019 at 4:44 PM ^
Well, if the situation at Clemson began to erode considerably, there is no amount of piety that could spare him from the religion of "winning".
September 5th, 2019 at 9:10 AM ^
"Christian"
September 5th, 2019 at 9:12 AM ^
You'd be fine. A good friend of mine from high school when to Grove City College for electrical engineering. They have a Presbyterian ministry (seminary?) program there and those students were out spreading the word on campus. They were called the 'God Squad'. My friend wasn't a member of the God Squad, but they didn't harass him or his non-religious friends and there was no pressure to conform.
September 5th, 2019 at 3:27 PM ^
Yeah, no. I grew up in Grove City, my father taught at the college for 30 years, and I took several classes there when I was in high school. You're required to profess faith to get admitted (or teach) and to go to chapel 16 times per semester. Non Christians (and gay students) who get discovered are ostracized. If you think there's no pressure to conform you're drinking something a lot stronger than church wine.
September 5th, 2019 at 9:13 AM ^
You'd be fine. A good friend of mine from high school when to Grove City College for electrical engineering. They have a Presbyterian ministry (seminary?) program there and those students were out spreading the word on campus. They were called the 'God Squad'. My friend wasn't a member of the God Squad, but they didn't harass him or his non-religious friends and there was no pressure to conform.
Sorry, double post. Repeated for emphasis I guess.
September 5th, 2019 at 9:08 AM ^
Matthew 21:12-13
September 5th, 2019 at 9:19 AM ^
There is a word for this in the New Testament. Pharisee
September 5th, 2019 at 9:28 AM ^
These posts feel like those scenes in Criminal Minds where the agents get into bible verse battles with the serial killers.
September 5th, 2019 at 9:33 AM ^
Thanks for the post. This is why I think religion and politics should be a part of this board (OT, of course). Because most of us are M grads and have relevant opinions and thoughts that should be discussed. When discussion is hampered...
Also, I'm sure Brian will get more clicks, so there's that too.
September 5th, 2019 at 9:09 AM ^
Je$u$ Chri$t is my $avior.
September 5th, 2019 at 9:18 AM ^
Render unto Dabo what is Dabo's.
September 5th, 2019 at 9:21 AM ^
Thanks for sharing the article. I found it very interesting. I won't comment too much, as this is a topic that would hit a nerve for some mgoblog readers. Also because of my bias as a pastor, I am in support of young adults choosing to express faith as part of their life. I'll just say, I think this is much more common than you might think, even at Michigan. You don't hear a ton about it because players generally are very circumspect about faith issues. Especially at a place like Michigan, where the general academic culture can be somewhat hostile to Christianity, guys won't want to open the team, the coaches, or themselves to criticism because of their faith.
September 5th, 2019 at 9:25 AM ^
I agree with what you're saying, but I get uncomfortable when someone who is so blatantly dishonest seems to be using it as a recruiting or publicity tool. Brady Hoke and John Beilein were very devout Christians but they didn't advertise it publicly. I'm sure they were very supportive of any player's faith. What's happening here feels closer to televangelism. But, who am I to judge.
September 5th, 2019 at 10:03 AM ^
i am going to avoid this topic in terms of editorializing, but i will add one factual bit about our favorite football program. remember when o'korn was the QB and despite his marginal performances he was nevertheless very well regarded by his teammates? the main reason is that he was the spiritual leader of that team, and especially (and maybe surprisingly) with the players who had some xtramelanin. he led a fair amount of that team to Christ.
say what you will about his on-field performance, but he is/was an A+ character guy from all i've heard.
September 5th, 2019 at 10:09 AM ^
That is a very good point. I remember reading the letter he wrote to Tammi Carr which she posted on social media after that OSU game. Thinking way back, John Navarre was the same way. Derided by many fans for a while, but he was the spiritual leader of the team and had a ton of respect from his teammates for it.
September 5th, 2019 at 11:15 AM ^
I think that this just goes to show that there is a fundamental difference between proselytizing and evangelizing. Proselytizing is marked by those who try to convert others through fear, malice, manipulation, deception, threat, or bribery. It does not respect religious freedom or human dignity. On the other hand, evangelizing is the act of sharing one’s faith with another in the exact opposite way - with love, kindness, openness and honesty - and respecting everyone’s choice whether they agree/receive what you are saying or not.
Some people of faith mistake proselytizing for evangelizing and I have encountered people who have tried both on me. Proselytizing always rubs a person the wrong way, but evangelizing is non-threatening and comes off as respectful, genuine and an act of care/kindness.
September 5th, 2019 at 12:36 PM ^
Sorry, had to check on this one...
proselytizing
/ˈpräs(ə)ləˌtīziNG/
noun
-
the action of attempting to convert someone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.
"no amount of proselytizing was going to change their minds"
September 5th, 2019 at 1:30 PM ^
Yeah. Evangelizing is proselytizing for Christians. But you can look all over this blog to see how hard word usage is for everybody.
September 5th, 2019 at 3:17 PM ^
There are a number of ways you can define “proselytizing” and the modern connotation is negative. Pope Francis is on the record chastising proselytizers and encouraging evangelization. Most people these days distinguish between the two terms similar to how I did in my post.
September 5th, 2019 at 12:54 PM ^
Well stated, I think I get that now.
In recent months, I've been seeing a lot more of my mom-in-law as she's been aging and declining in both health and mind. She's super-duper Christian and I.... am not. She's always been nothing but loving and gracious to me - I know she'd like nothing more for me to convert and accept Jesus into my heart and always prays for my safety when I'm about to drive 1.5 hrs back home.
I feel bad that I can't honestly affirm her wishes because my agnosticism is what I believe, but I don't begrudge her in the slightest and I'm 100% not going to be the asshole that goes all Richard Dawkins on her. I know that it comes from a place of love and kindness and that even though I don't share her faith, it's been a source of strength for *her* and that's what matters, especially now.
September 5th, 2019 at 3:23 PM ^
This, by the way, is one of the reasons why the team loved JoK, despite the on-field issues. I have heard it from a team chaplain that O'Korn was deeply valued by most of the players because of his personal integrity and spiritual leadership.
September 5th, 2019 at 9:25 AM ^
I was involved in a campus ministry at michigan - while also being a member of a fraternity.
My take was that students aren’t hostile to Christianity. They’re hostile to evangelicalism - and they have plenty of reasons to be.
September 5th, 2019 at 10:00 AM ^
Please don't anyone take this the wrong way; I'm not trying to start a debate or an argument. I just have to say that it's really hard to be a Christian and not evangelize.
The modern view of "acceptable" Christianity is to either keep it to yourself and practice it in private, or offer charity or do work to alleviate suffering for the poor, sick, etc. But practicing Christians should also be concerned about eternal suffering, and the only way to offer relief in that case is to offer our savior. This inevitably is seen as condemnation and judgement when we really honestly don't mean it that way.
The thing about Dabo is the box that all Christians get put into; if you profess your Christianity you're expected to be perfect, and when you're found to be not perfect, you're a charlatan or a hypocrite. He's definitely not perfect, and he'd probably be the first to admit it. But the sins in your life don't necessarily invalidate the good you do. In the case of the culture in Clemson's program, I have a serious problem if he's pressuring and requiring certain things of his players i.e, baptisms or confessions or whatever as a condition of being on the team. But as far as openly espousing a religion, welcoming and celebrating those who would join him; that's kinda what we're supposed to do as Christians.
To those of you who have felt condemnation from evangelizing Christians, I truly am sorry and apologize on their behalf. The idea that people have good reason to feel hostile to evangelicals is depressing to me and tells me that many (maybe most?) of us have missed the mark. You can go through my history and see some of the vile things I've said on here; I'm never going to act like I don't fail my faith every day. I just never want anyone to feel like we're pointing fingers and condemning. I want you to feel welcome and invited, regardless who you are are what you've done, and if you feel differently, we've messed it up.
September 5th, 2019 at 10:02 AM ^
Don't think his problem is with evangelizing itself, but moreso evangelical culture. Which, from personal experience growing up in that culture, has alot of issues.
September 5th, 2019 at 10:40 AM ^
Many non-religious people - and many Christians - seem not to have too much difficulty separating modern evangelicalism from Christian practices.
Francis of Assisi polls higher than the Crusades. It’s all in how their interpretation of faith falls. Modern evangelicalism has an oppressive ilk to it couched in the idea of “eternal freedom”, which in a lot of ways seems to directly contradict Luke 11:11.
September 5th, 2019 at 12:37 PM ^
To your point about Christians being expected to be perfect, I think the issue is that there are Christians who seem to spend most of their time calling out others for not being perfect according to their own dogma. Not all Christians are like this, but the ones who are, are vocal and get a lot of coverage. So when a Christian says, "I'm not going to make a wedding cake for a gay couple because my God believes homosexuality is wrong," he or she has thrown down the gauntlet; we Christians set the standard for what is right and wrong. So when they violate one of their own commandments, or even just do something that's morally questionable, the foundation of the religion feels disingenuous. They can judge others, but feel they shouldn't be judged by others.
September 5th, 2019 at 12:44 PM ^
something something ... thou shall not judge
September 5th, 2019 at 4:11 PM ^
I'm not going to make a wedding cake for a gay couple
Assuming you're talking about what happened -- and continues to happen in Colorado (on account of muck rakers trying to bait Jack Phillips into another investigation) that's not what happened at all in the Jack Phillips case. Please download and read the SCOTUS opinions (there are four that I know of -- majority, dissent, Kagan's, & Thomas'. The decision was 7-2 for cripe's sake.
September 5th, 2019 at 5:16 PM ^
The point isn't the ruling; it's the refusal to make the cake on religious grounds. It was the bakery owner saying, "Who you are is morally wrong according to my religion." Same with the county clerk who refused to issue marriage licenses to gay couples on religious grounds. It's claiming the moral high ground over anyone who doesn't share your religious beliefs.
September 6th, 2019 at 11:47 AM ^
it's the refusal to make the cake on religious grounds.
I agree.
But again, that's not what happened. That's why I encouraged you to read the actual documentation (rather than whatever source you are formulating your opinion on the case from).
September 6th, 2019 at 3:32 PM ^
I'm not sure where you're pointing me here. The justices looked at it through the lens of the law, and freedoms of speech and religion. Then there's the question of the committee not paying due respect to the baker's sincere beliefs. There are a lot of legal elements here, but that's not my point. The case wouldn't exist without one religion's moral judgment about a group of individuals it deems to be amoral/against the natural order/just plain bad and wrong. I'd argue that homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality, has existed as long, and has enough "constituents" to qualify it as natural, or part of the natural order.
September 5th, 2019 at 10:00 AM ^
"Amen" - Academia isn't opposed to religion. You can get degrees in religions at public schools. What I think most large schools are opposed to is the moralistic evangelicals who are more concerned with policing the behavior of others than they are themselves.
September 5th, 2019 at 9:30 AM ^
Agreed, Coach Harbaugh also is very clear on the role faith has in his life. Without getting too deep in the weeds if a Coach leads a program where kids leave the program not only as better football players but better human beings I'm all for it. Kudos to Dabo and Jim to have the courage and conviction to make the attempt to do just that.
September 5th, 2019 at 9:36 AM ^
LOL at people being hostile towards Christianity. Maybe take a look at the "minority" religions out there and you can understand hostile. Being Muslim, Jewish, Hindu... is way more hostile than being a Christian.
September 5th, 2019 at 9:38 AM ^
deleted my comment. Not sure I understand what you're implying...
September 5th, 2019 at 9:41 AM ^
You do realize that the Muslim religion has more followers than any other in the world, right? Not sure how that qualifies as a ‘minority religion’. But, for that matter, I don’t even know what you’re trying to say in this post...
September 5th, 2019 at 10:12 AM ^
Pretty sure he's talking about within the US. Less than 5% of Michigan students consider themselves Muslim. I think it's pretty much impossible to defend that Christians "have it harder" than Muslims, Jews and most other religious groups in the US
September 5th, 2019 at 10:17 AM ^
I'm certainly not an expert on the topic, but I was surprised to see the assertion that Islam has the largest number of adherents in the world. According to the Pew Research Center, as of 2015 there were an estimated 2.3 billion Christians in the world and 1.8 billion Muslims. Maybe the poster is separating Catholics and non-Catholic Christians? Not a huge point, and not entirely relevant to the larger discussion--but just wanted to mention it.
September 5th, 2019 at 11:50 AM ^
I really don't care what Dabo Swinney does in the locker room. It's between him and his players. If they want to speak in tongues before every game, fine. I would hope, though, that every religion represented in that locker room gets to express itself freely and is respected. Same with atheists.
And by the way, Christianity would have been fine had it not entered politics. Same is true with any religion that inserts itself into the political arena.
September 5th, 2019 at 10:55 AM ^
LOL at placing the Church on a pedestal as an institution of morality. Plenty of atrocities have been done in the name of Christianity.
September 5th, 2019 at 12:19 PM ^
To be fair, you can replace "Christianity" with many, many other words in your last sentence and still have a true statement. Hypocrisy and extreme fanaticism know no religion (or indeed, any other restraint).
September 5th, 2019 at 1:37 PM ^
That is fair, which is why its completely unfair for jblaze to lionize christianity while demonizing other religions.
Edit: aaaaaaaand i misread jblaze's post. I'm such a dick. Sorry jblaze
September 5th, 2019 at 9:36 AM ^
Well of course no one is discouraged for being religious at U-M. I'm sure PLENTY of players are (in fact you see it all over their Instagram posts).
It's the forced religious (or very aggressively suggested) that makes it different in places like that. Not to mention what everyone else already said -- pretty hypocritical to claim high moral ground when you're out there breaking every other GD rule.
September 5th, 2019 at 11:39 AM ^
I wonder if Dabo secretly judges recruits based on religion. My guess is he does, he seems like that kinda guy. Actually he seems like the kinda guy who thinks he can “help” that person and show him the way. Those kinds of people bother me.