The day I stopped getting emotionlly involved in recruiting -- Bri'onte Dunn
I was a lurker of this forum, mosty, until I started following recruiting more closely. The first 5-star guy I coveted throughout the recruiting process was Bri'onte Dunn. His recruitment was kind of a watershed moment for me since, at the time, it was a position of clear need for Michigan, and it was a head to head battle with ohio state. I became somehow emotionally involved in his recruitment.
So, as you might expect, I was seriously bummed when he chose the bad guys. I remember thinking at the time, I really hope he regrets that decision. I know I know -- why should I take personally the decision of a 17 year old? And while I certainly wish no ill upon the kid, I wanted him to basically admit later that he made a mistake (fat chance, right?). LOL.
So, in looking at ohio state RB stats, I couldn't help but notice his stat line, combined with his inability to hold onto the football. It has produced an ignominous career down there, and I kinda don't feel bad anymore.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brionte-dunn-1.html
I have since stopped getting emotionally involved in recruiting. And since Harbaugh, I recognize that stars are far less important than scheme and coaching.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:24 AM ^
We just managed to be the supreme outlier. I vividly remember there being a chart of talent level vs. performance and Michigan and Tennessee made the top 10 amongst 8 other mid-major dregs, though I can't find that info now. I believe Michigan was actually #1 in that list.
Now that we have better coaching, all of a sudden the defense is just wrecking people.
October 7th, 2015 at 3:26 PM ^
I have no argument with his main pioint about not beng involved emotionally, since I generally agree we shouldn't be emotional about any recruiting win or loss. But he's just factually wrong that recruiting ratings do not matter, they are of extremely high predictive importance, which has been shown in every single study ever done. Sure Dunn hasn't panned out, nor does it appear another five star, Derrick Green, will either for us. But if you get five star guys, you are in very good shape generally.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:02 AM ^
It's been discussed better elswhere, but Harbaugh appears to be more attracted to guys that have played multiple positions - "football players" is the term, IIRC.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:02 AM ^
October 7th, 2015 at 11:05 AM ^
or Weber who was injured last I heard.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:33 AM ^
October 7th, 2015 at 11:39 AM ^
the catch-all "violation of athletic department policy"...
October 7th, 2015 at 11:44 AM ^
October 7th, 2015 at 12:01 PM ^
Yeah, Webb is suspended and Weber is still coming back from a meniscus injury. Something in that OSU water doesn't seem to mix well with kids from Cass.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:04 AM ^
I will admit, when Harbaugh was announced, I got emotional.
October 7th, 2015 at 12:29 PM ^
Totally agree, I was very involved with the Harbaugh recruitment - both in '10 and '14. In '10 I was sure we were getting him from Stanford, because I still thought DB was a good guy then.
I just had a feeling when he let RR dangle until JH went to SF that there was something rotten there - HOW rotten I could've never guessed at that time, but I felt sure that was what had happened.
What changed my view of and emotional involvement in recruiting HS players between those two coaching searches is all the highly rated disappointments the Hoke team brought in. I mean, how can you have a post about Brionte without mentioning Dymonte?
My last player I actually hit F5 repeatedly waiting for his announcement was Justin King - so we're going back a way here. Over and over nothing new posted until finally - "Justin King to Penn State"
And the thing is - he didn't turn out to be the next Woodson I (and many others) thought he would be. A solid player, made some All-B1G lists, got drafted, had some NFL time... But he didn't make or break the late Lloyd years, although osu '06 (and the subsequent Rose) he could've been the difference maker in our secondary between winning and losing, so maybe that's a MNC there?!
As you watch this thing unfold over the years, and most especially over this past month (and different sport, but watch and appreciate Beilein) is starz only tell you how fast or big a kid is in HS and how he fares against other HS kids - most of whom will not be receiving any scholarships.
It's DEVELOPMENT, DEVELOPMENT, DEVELOPMENT Baby!
HARBAUGH!!!!!!
October 7th, 2015 at 11:05 AM ^
The ones that hurt for me a while back was Jai Eugene/Perry/RoJo?etc. Now I couldn't care less. Time heals all wounds. Seriously though, there are countless others and I just take it in stride.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:26 AM ^
That aside, I agree with the OP - recruiting isn't worth the emotional investment. Follow, but don't get attached to anyone. Even after signing day. My favorite players (Mallett, Green, Donovan Warren to name a few) never pan out how I hope they will. I'm happier now with learning the players based on who signs and who is actually playing, and not recruiting hype that almost never translates to playing time.
October 7th, 2015 at 12:09 PM ^
to Nick Perry going to USC, on signing day that year i was listening to 97.1 on my way home and they were talking about nick perry choose USC over Michigan and State... some guy called in and i believe he claimed to be Perry's uncle... he said that the one of hte main reasons he choose USC was because they were going to fly his mom out to every home game... and we all know what happened after with USC...
RoJo hurt as well because that kid spent so much time on campus and then to cancel his official 2 days before it was to happen, at that moment i knew he wasn't coming...
October 7th, 2015 at 12:44 PM ^
And around that same period as Jai & RoJo was Macho & Nic Harris, and Justin King I referenced above - all of whom spurned the "apparent leader" to go eslewhere, all of the losses greatly impacting our secondary in '06 & '07, when we really could've used them (although of course RoJo ended being an offensive player for USC, we were recruiting him at CB).
Following the great recruiting classes of '03 & '04 we started missing on more and more players who were thought to be leans and even locks. That's why when The Horror and Oregon '07 happened I was not that surprised (didn't expect to lose to Appy, but had become very concerned on how many secondary players we were missing out on - while taking Johnny Sears and Chris Rogers and James (also Rogers?) as terrible consolations).
Any one or more likely two of those players might have made the difference between wining at osu in '06 and going to the championship game, and then between winning or losing the subsequent Rose when we didn't.
But all that being said, again - DEVELOPMENT over Starz. These high star players these days are very entitled, and for every Ezekiel Elliott there seems to be 5 Dee Harts...
October 7th, 2015 at 11:05 AM ^
Right there with you. I can probably count on one hand the number of recruits I got really invested in, and most of those guys never panned out. 'Crootin is just such a crap shoot. I'll save my energy for caring about players already in the winged helmet.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:06 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
October 7th, 2015 at 11:08 AM ^
I like following recruiting because it allows me to be more informed on the college careers of players all over the country. Kalen Ballage, for example, was a guy I really wanted UM to get. Super, super athlete out of an under-recruited area in Colorado. It seemed like we cooled on him pretty hard and thankfully he ended up at ASU instead of MSU who stayed on him, and over the last couple years he's started to carve out a nice role with the Sun Devils. But I wouldn't have any perspective on him if I didn't follow UM recruiting and our ultimately feigning interest in him.
October 8th, 2015 at 5:27 PM ^
Thanks for posting about him, though.
I'm about the same way you are, though, with most recruiting info. It's nice to learn about these recruits to the extent that a) I know at least something about them once they start getting playing time at Michigan; or b)it causes me to take notice when I see or hear or read about them a year or more down the road while they compete elsewhere.
...and especially when the kid has an easily recognized or unusual name (such as Ballage or Adoree Jackson).
October 7th, 2015 at 11:07 AM ^
I agree - I just get happy if another 4 or 5 star is signed - don't care about individual hype.
It seems to me that 30-40% never pan out after they get here.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:17 AM ^
October 7th, 2015 at 11:36 AM ^
When it comes to 5-stars, Hoke brought in Peppers, Pipkins, Kalis and Green right? It looks like only Peppers will live up to the hype, Kalis will probably be a solid starter and Pipkins and Green are busts.
I suppose you could look at it as a 50% failure rate or split the difference with Kalis and say 62.5% failure rate. Or 75% if you want to say he hasn't lived up to his billing at all.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:39 AM ^
Add in four stars, and the picture gets uglier. Harbaugh is doing some admirable salvage work this year, though, so all is not lost for many of these guys.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:56 AM ^
As Magnum says it is the 4 stars where Hoke and staff struck out way too much. 5 stars are rare so the sample size is pretty useless. That said a 50% bust rate on 5 stars is bad too.
Ironically we had good results with 3 stars (Ryan, Henry, etc) but the 4 stars which is the bulk of a class of a OSU, UM, Neb, PSU has been very disappointing with Hoke. No one is going to get a 100% success rate and even 75% is pushing it but just like 2nd and 3rd round players often determine NFL sustained success so will the "low 4" stars at a program like UM.
Harbaugh's staff is starting to get something out of these guys that Hoke's didn't.
October 7th, 2015 at 12:34 PM ^
October 7th, 2015 at 11:07 AM ^
(yawn) ...never heard of him.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:10 AM ^
My moment: an employee of this site constantly twittering kids with "Follow back!".
October 7th, 2015 at 11:15 AM ^
Mine was when an employee of this site shared text messages with a particular in-state recruit we were thought to be leading for. This recruit now plays for Michigan st.
October 7th, 2015 at 4:58 PM ^
That guy has issues, haha.
Damn he was irritating.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:32 AM ^
Mine was when an MGoBlog writer posted an interview with a 15-year old kid, and then admitted he rarely asked for parents permission before speaking to their kids
October 7th, 2015 at 12:22 PM ^
And then to make matters worse, totally dismissing anyone who questioned his methods as out of touch idiots.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:37 AM ^
That was the worst era of MGoBlog. Yeesh, that guy was a nightmare.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:38 AM ^
Having said that, I enjoy what Ace does. He focuses purely on the football aspect.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:50 AM ^
Brandon "Coach" Brown was a clown, MGoBlog trending skyward after his departure.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:57 AM ^
I upvoted everybody since we're all on the same page.
October 7th, 2015 at 12:58 PM ^
I am not sure Brandon Brown was ever an employee of this blog? He was certainly a very interested and active free-lancer when he began posting here. The guys in charge can clarify if they feel like it. I believe the same can be said for Steve Lorenz.
But I can tell you that they both are now paid employees for recruiting sites, so it's Brown's actual job to do all those things decried above. So like it or not, it has value to someone, and the kids love the attention whether their parents approve or not.
That being said, I dropped my subscriptions to Rivals & Scout when I found what a credible and up-to-date job of following potential Mighigan signees was being done here - for free! In return I use the Mgoblog links to Amazon & Tee Off.com, and buy stuff from Underground - like the Woodson Rose T-shirt and the Maize Submarine shirt, and that site linked me to a site selling skinny M caps, so I'm rocking one of those too!
October 7th, 2015 at 2:30 PM ^
Aquaman was a contributor on MGoBoard, I don't ever remember him having front page content. Brown had his own front page columns.... Perhaps he wasn't paid, but he was definitely more "authorized" than Steve.
Also, lots of things that are valued by people can be obtained either in an above board way, or the wrong way. Brandon Brown is the blood diamond of Michigan recruiting coverage.
Edit: "Hello Brandon Brown" post: http://mgoblog.com/content/hello-brandon-brown-who-not-recruit?page=1&mgoblog_%28mgoblog%29=
October 7th, 2015 at 11:12 AM ^
I stopped getting emotionally involved in recruiting around 2013 when Dantonio kept kicking our butts with 3 star talent and the top 10 recruiting classes of RRod and Hoke didn't amount to anything.
In fall of 2010 I was at Ford Field for the MHSAA championship games. And during the Ithaca game I remember a spartan fan talking about how Dantonio doesn't care about star ratings and waits to offer kids until they come to camp and he can coach them in person. At the time I thought yeah that is just an excuse for getting your butts kicked in recruiting each year. Now I think that if true, it is probably a pretty smart way to go about recruiting. I'd say that coachability and fit in the system are the 2 most important thing to look for in recruiting.
I think recruiting is geared towards programs with huge fanbases so that they can sell memberships or access to info behind the paywalls. Jake Ryan and Desmond Morgan have been our two best linebackers in the last 6 years and they were both 3 star recruits. Hoke didn't even want Ryan at SDSU. Star ratings are overrated for the vast majority of recruits. Clearly 5 star guys like Peppers have next level talent but I don't need the star system to tell me that.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:13 AM ^
There is a good chance Jim Tresell is still coach at OSU if we land Pryor. The allegations against OSU/Tressel are less significant if they don't include the star QB.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:34 AM ^
hypothetically, where would we be on the probation train?
October 7th, 2015 at 12:49 PM ^
I disagree. Pryor was unfairly blamed for that. Posey, Boom and Mike Adams were all equally responsible. Further, Tressel still has his job if he doesn't try to protect them by covering it up.
October 7th, 2015 at 3:40 PM ^
you post on here, at first glance I think your avatar is a pot leaf. Gets me every time, and I don't even smoke the stuff.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:15 AM ^
I like recruiting but the Laquon Treadwell Ole Miss recruitment...
October 7th, 2015 at 11:36 AM ^
I'm just awaiting the "breaking news" that states Ole Miss provided illegal benefits to several of their current and/or recent players, including Treadwell.
October 7th, 2015 at 2:11 PM ^
Maybe news takes awhile to reach Sydney, but Laremy Tunsil hasn't played all year because of such accusations - in his case his step-father I believe ratted him out. Didn't get the cut he expected I'd guess?
If that pic of Treadwell with caish munny and bling didn't merit any investigations than what would?
October 7th, 2015 at 11:15 AM ^
I've never been emotionally involved in the college choices of teenagers I don't know.
October 7th, 2015 at 11:21 AM ^
I like to lie on message boards and say I don't get emotionally involved and then belittle others that do.
October 7th, 2015 at 12:33 PM ^
for the Bando course
October 7th, 2015 at 1:03 PM ^
Hey! Let's start calling out anyone who's patently and repeatedly full of BS on here by saying - "Oh, taking the Bando Course, huh?!"