D-day Morning Open Thread
January 11th, 2011 at 10:15 AM ^
The guy who recruits to LSU has better players than the guy who recruits to San Diego State?
Recruiting comparisons are probably not the way to go other than Miles is in with the Big Boyz and recruits players guys with the jobs like Hoke have--can't even dream of talking to.
Lots of reasons to go with Miles over Hoke, I agree--but I'm going back and remembering that Hoke was--and still is--held in pretty high regard as a recruiter.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:35 AM ^
I guarantee that Hoke at some point will be within 100 miles of Ann Arbor this upcoming year.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:54 AM ^
he gets the Stanford job now that Peterson has turned it down.
January 11th, 2011 at 10:02 AM ^
Why would it "devastate" the fanbase? It would do so to the lowest rung of the fanbase, no question, but the fact is that Hoke is quite qualified. And he got Michigan over the hump in 1997. Oh, and he recruited many of those players, including Tom Brady. Its people like you who plant the seed in the stupid fans, by saying something so uninformed like that.
Hoke is very qualified, and I'd be very happy to get him. I'd prefer Miles, however.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:02 AM ^
I can't see any way for brandon to sell Hoke at this point to the fan base. He may get the Carr contingent on his side with hoke, but the fans and the Bo contingent, plus if there is any contingent left that supported RR would all be hopping mad.
Time for Brandon to sit Carr down and tell him, Miles is in, if you don't like it, if you can't support it, you are out.
Draper should be out regardless.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:09 AM ^
a tough conversation to have but at this point I totally agree. If Carr's not "all in" then he can stay on the outside of the program. DB's a seasoned CEO, I'm sure he'd be able to handle laying down the law to Lloyd.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:26 AM ^
They already named Brian Townsend Assoc. Athletic Director of Basketball (which Brian already was) AND FOOTBALL (which Draper is/was). I think this is another one of Brandon's "firings" (i.e. telling the employee you have X number of months to find a new job).
January 11th, 2011 at 8:47 AM ^
Isn't Carr already out? He's not formally involved with the program anymore is he?
Regardless, I hope Brandon doesn't have the same failure of imagination that so many fans do. Hoke has never had the geographical or institutional recruiting advantages that Miles has had. I'm not saying he could definitely recruit as well but nobody can say he definitely can't. The guy is loved by former players, coaches, media and generally anybody who knows him. He loves Michigan. If he doesn't deserve the job he certainly does at least deserve respect.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:08 AM ^
As we have seen, Brandon likes to do things on the large scale (night game, Big Chill, HD screens). That said, don't be surprised if both Miles and Hoke come to Michigan. Miles will be HC and Hoke the DC and coach in waiting. Further, I think the new staff will be a bit of a reunion.
Hoke will come because he'll be an in-house hire whenever Miles retires and no one - assuming Michigan gets back to winning - will question his becoming the HC. This isn't San Diego State. And since Brandon is willing to pay this time around, I don't see Hoke taking much of a paycut as DC if at all. I believe F. Jackson will be retained, and maybe Soup and a few other former Michigan coaches will be brought back. Brandon, at the end of the day, will attempt to avoid the external process to find Miles' successor. Brandon is setting this up perfectly.
I also wonder if LSU's willingness to pay part of Miles' buyout has something to do with him providing notice to terminate BEFORE he actually signed the Michigan contract. If so, the reduction could be related to an agreement to leave some of his old staff (which is possible because Hoke is coming), not contact recruits once he leaves (they could still contact him), etc.
I can't imagine that this coaching announcement will be a normal one. This is Brandon we're talking about.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:49 AM ^
No matter what the succession plan. Money isn't the issue, authority and resume is. I think the chances of that scenario are 0.0%. Wouldn't mind it, but...
January 11th, 2011 at 10:29 AM ^
It's not like we're asking a BCS caliber HC to take a demotion to DC ... Hoke's current position is HC at SDSU, which is not really a big stage. I'd say that taking the DC position at UM is, at the very least, equivalent to his current position.
January 11th, 2011 at 10:01 AM ^
I have been saying this for a while and have been shut down.
We need Miles now - out program is in a major tailspin and he his huge name and incredible recruiting ability would give us the necessary shot in the arm. LM could keep just about all of our recruits, and maybe even get us a few new ones. I am a Hoke supporter, but he wouldn't provide this instant boost.
At the same time, DB has said that he views this as a long term decision. Bringing in Hoke, who is 6 years younger than Miles, would set up a perfect succession plan to Miles. Hoke is a great D coach - nobody disputes that. He is also a great recruiter (although not to the level of LM).
Basically, you satisfy the Les contingent, the Carr contingent, span 2 generations of winning M football, reconnect with pretty much all of the former players. This is a huge win-win.
The question is whether Hoke would go from HC to DC. I could argue that DC of M is better than HC of San Diago. Hoke currently makes around $675,000, with a sweetened extension on the table that might get him close to $1 million. Could we go to $750,000 for Hoke as a DC? To me, it would be well worth it.
Thoughts?
January 11th, 2011 at 10:12 AM ^
I would LOVE that... Miles HC Hoke DC Loeffler OC.... however i would presume that miles would demand his choice of coordinators....not to knock hoke or loeffler but miles is very successful at what he does and surely he will want his coaches or choice of them.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:08 AM ^
Ok has has anyone even thought about this.....LM head coach with BH as DC/HC in waiting? Now talk about a homerun!! Not sure how it would work but.....!
January 11th, 2011 at 8:16 AM ^
... there is NO WAY Hoke would take DC/HCIW. It would be a demotion and there's no chance he takes Muschamp-type money when he's probably making more at San Diego State.
This line of thinking is the classic Michigan arrogance seeping into the debate. Maybe Gruden would take OC while we're at it.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:20 AM ^
Hoke makes almost $1 million if you factor in max possible bonus's for the year.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:25 AM ^
BH doesn't make great money for a HC. He makes the equivalent of what Muschamp made at Texas. I don't think it would be insane at all. Who knows whether he would be able to win at SDSU. If not, he decreases the value of his stock by staying at SDSU. Serving as a DC at Michigan (and winning) puts him in a better position for a major gig, whether he's Michigan's next HC or a HC somewhere else.
Of course, I could be wrong, but that's my take on it. We're all guessing at this point.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:31 AM ^
Wasn't Hoke associate head coach under Carr?--which is sort of a head coach in waiting. Hoke is currently making $700,000 and his new contract offer has him possibly earning $1 million per year with incentives (source). Seems unlikely he'd accept both a demotion and a pay cut.
Would this be at all plausible: Miles commits to be Michigan coach for only X number of years, after which he will retire, and then Hoke takes over? In other words, have a definite day in place when the transition occurs. Brandon has stated he's a believer in succession planning.
January 11th, 2011 at 10:08 AM ^
I think this would be more reasonable if there was a bigger age difference between the two guys. Miles is 57 and Hoke is 52. Suppose Miles wants to coach for another 7 years, do you think that Hoke wants to wait until he's pushing 60 to take over the program? If you're Michigan, is that what you want?
January 11th, 2011 at 10:32 AM ^
This is a good point, but if Miles agreed to retire after 5 years, Hoke would be taking over the job at the same age that Miles did.
You talk about "pushing 60." Miles is doing that right now--he'll be 58 in November.
January 11th, 2011 at 9:01 AM ^
If that were true, I think you'd see the top tier OCs and DCs stepping into mid major coaching gigs more regularly.
I won't dismiss your argument, because there are coaches who have made that transition. However, I think there is also enough data to argue that being a coordinator at a BCS school with the resources to compete at the highest level is an equally satisfying position, especially if the salary is comparable.
Considering that Hoke has not hid his desire to coach at Michigan, I don't think it is arrogant to assume that he might be a candidate for the DC position. However, I do think it is arrogant to assume that your opinion on the issue is the only one that matters.
January 11th, 2011 at 10:05 AM ^
All right, give me ONE example of a mid-major DI coach that has moved from a HC position to a coordinator position. One. You mention data in your statement, I'm just looking for one data point.
January 11th, 2011 at 10:28 AM ^
Charlie Weiss
January 11th, 2011 at 11:01 AM ^
It's not like Weis left ND voluntarily to go to KC (which is essentially what people are suggesting Hoke do). Weis was fired from ND and then went to KC. I'm saying give me an example where a DI coach voluntarily left a job to take a coordinator position with another DI school.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:17 AM ^
but my "data" was in the reverse form. You don't see the top level BCS coordinators jumping ship to coach at mid majors, even though there are always opportunities to do so.
As far as coaches becoming coordinators, I'm sure that they are out there but I'm not going to put in the time to verify. However, I can give you one example of a head coach who is now a positions coach by choice:
Chuck Martin at GVSU followed Kelly to ND to coach defensive backs. Spare your argument that GVSU is D-II. They were top level D-II and Martin could have certainly taken a job at the next level had he desired to do so.
I wasn't implying that every mid level coach should aspire to be a coordinator at a big name program. What I was saying was that it isn't a preposterous idea given the right situation.
January 11th, 2011 at 10:43 AM ^
January 11th, 2011 at 11:00 AM ^
I mean where a HC has left an existing job to go become a coordinator. Crowton left Louisiana Tech to become OC with the Bears. He was fired at BYU and resurfaced as an OC at Oregon. This is in no way similar to what people are suggesting Hoke do.
January 11th, 2011 at 11:17 AM ^
its unlikely to happen, but it isn't preposterous given his affinity for the university. If this is the job he really wants, he may view this as another way to get there. Lobbying from the outside doesn't seem to be working (assuming any of us are reading the tea leaves correctly) and he may just feel this is a way to get closer. Granted he has been closer before, and it would require banking on the success of a somewhat wacky head coach, so it doesn't seem real plausible, but, again, not preposterous.
January 11th, 2011 at 11:40 AM ^
..is how does this make Hoke a better candidate for the head coach job? From what I've read, people seem to think that he's a pretty decent defensive coach and a good recruiter but that his main drawback is that his record as a head coach is mediocre.
If all he's doing is going back to be a defensive coach (albeit as DC) how does letting five years go by help his resume? At that point, isn't he still just a guy who coached defense at Michigan, has a mediocre HC record-- with the exception that he would then be five years older? Why would we like him any more at that point?
January 11th, 2011 at 8:12 AM ^
Here's what DB seems to have been up to:
1/5 - Fires RR at noon, Gets on AirPizza1 to interview Tom Bradley in Latrobe, PA at 5 pm, Departs for Chicago at 10:30 pm;
1/6 - Interviews Pat Fitzgerald in Chicago, Gets on AirPizza1 to go to his home in Scottsdale, AZ at 1 pm, Gets new clothes and chills;
1/7 - Interviews John Grueden in Scottsdale; Gets on AirPizza1 to interview Brady Hoke in Las Vegas at 5:30 pm;
1/8 - Gets on AirPizza1 to return to his home in Scottsdale, AZ at 1 pm, Gets on AirPizza1 to interview various candidates at Coaches Convention in Dallas, TX at 3:50 pm;
1/9 - Interviews various candidates at Coaches Convention;
1/10 - Gets on AirPizza1 to interview Miles in BR at 2:20 pm, Gets on AirPizza1 to return home after signing Miles.
What all this means: I WISH I HAD A CORPORATE JET AND HOME IN SCOTTSDALE to either: (1) conduct my hiring projects out of, or (2) do anything.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:27 AM ^
New goal has been set.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:39 AM ^
My wife would totally misuse the corporate jet, but I hope i get to enjoy the ride! ;)
January 11th, 2011 at 8:51 AM ^
This seems as good an explanation as any. What I can't figure out is the 1 hour stop at Scottsdale in between Las Vegas and Dallas. Not enough time to remeet anybody -- unless DB really did forget his toothbrush?
January 11th, 2011 at 9:00 AM ^
I seriously think that he probably went home and got a few changes of clothes. He's like fucking Batman and Scottsdale is his Bat cave.
I wish I was Batman...
January 11th, 2011 at 8:14 AM ^
ASSuming that DB hired Leslie, who is a defensive minded coach, would it be possible, or even desirable, to hire McGee and his assistants to run our offense?
Not sure we got the points out of the offense that we wanted, but it was the most productive unit of the team.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:26 AM ^
I saw on twitter last night that Magee, Dews, and Gibson appear to be heading to Pitt with Todd Graham.
Rod Smith and Bruce Tall appear to be heading to Indiana.
Greg Frey is in contention with a guy from Maryland's old staff for a job at Indiana as well.
I'll try and remember whose Twiiter I saw it on to link it.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:31 AM ^
I'd love to see Frey and Tall retained.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:51 AM ^
Fred Jackson: Still available!
January 11th, 2011 at 9:36 AM ^
Wonder if Magee would be in line for a HC job (or at least an interview) somewhere. Tulsa, maybe? Temple?
January 11th, 2011 at 8:15 AM ^
This meeting with Miles has made for great theater. Miles, himself, makes for great theater - clock management and predisposition for grass. Therefore, because M must compete in the national theater of college football, and because their "brand" must be freshened to keep the cash cow Big Ten network buzzing along, I believe that it will be Miles. They recognize it was a mistake to ignore him in 2007, and, now, 3 years later, they cannot afford to be jilted yet again. I trust DB did his homework here, and that you will soon be introduced to your new coach - Miles. Hoke would be an admission that LC's cronies in the athletic department spent the last three years undermining RR, and that will immediately re-open wounds among RR supporters. Unless, of course, he has some other rabbit in the hat - Gruden?
January 11th, 2011 at 8:18 AM ^
Could someone fill me in on this whole "Les Miles eats grass" meme?
January 11th, 2011 at 8:24 AM ^
Seriously? You haven't seen this nutcase picking grass during intense game moments and chewing it? If not, he does. I don't know what he thinks about Fieldturf or Astroturf, but he loves grass.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:46 AM ^
just sayin.
January 11th, 2011 at 10:02 AM ^
You really have this all wrong. No reason to just slander the guy as a "nutcase." The explanation he gave was that during the game, he eats a blade or two to humble him and remind himself he's part of the game (literally, the field). It's not like he pours a fresh bowl of grass clippings for breakfast. Whether or not you think the real explanation is weird, that's your opinion. He may be quirky, but everyone has been so quick to call him a "lunatic" and it's really getting obnoxious, especially considering most of us have not actually watched him or his program very carefully for the last few years.
January 11th, 2011 at 11:40 AM ^
I doubt the term nutcase could be viewed as slanderous, but point taken. His grass eating is the most minor of the reasons I would call him a nutcase. Perhaps I shouldn't be using nutcase at all. I just have an intense dislike of him. He is a dirtball with the kind of moral compass I would hate to see pollute the UofM.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:29 AM ^
Les Miles eats grass, or did you miss the /s tag?
January 11th, 2011 at 9:54 AM ^
I don't think he missed the /s tag, it was so sarcastic that it wasn't necessary.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:23 AM ^
but no question having Miles coach M against Alabama in the 2012 opener will be extremely valuable experience-wise.