Coaching bits from WTKA roundtable
Per Sam Webb Beielin could have had the Orlando Magic job last year and DOES NOT believe Beilein's primary reason for leaving is that he wants to prove it in the NBA.
Craig Ross: "In 3 or 4 years from now Michigan fans will regret Luke Yaklich isn't the head coach at Michigan." Mentioned Steve Fisher, Matt Painter, Tom Izzo, Johnny Orr, and Bill Frieder as guys who went from assistant to head coach and had success. Webb is skeptical this will happen.
The pie in the sky candidates (Stevens, Wright, etc.) likely aren't happening.
Michigan could get Nate Oats but he's not willing to interview due to just taking the Alabama job. Webb hasn't seen or heard that's he's a candidate however.
Brian: "Once you get past guys like Steve Prohm I don't see a single head coach out there that I would prefer to an internal hire or Juwan Howard."
A must some of the current assistants are retained especially Yaklich. Webb: "It would behoove Michigan to ask all three what it will take to keep them."
Webb: "It's going to be an interesting month." Brian: "Month?!" Webb: They're still in the search firm vetting phase." This would contradict Baumgardner's report that Warde had a ready made short list.
Mentioned Steve Fisher, Matt Painter, Tom Izzo, Johnny Orr, and Bill Frieder as guys who went from assistant to head coach and had success.
Painter was an assistant coach for almost a decade before being a HC at SIU, then went to Purdue as the associate HC for a year before taking over.
Izzo was an assistant at MSU for almost a decade before taking over.
Johnny Orr was freaking 40 years ago.
Frieder was also an assistant for almost a decade before taking over.
Fisher was an assistant at Michigan for 7 years before having to take over for Frieder in a very different circumstance than what is currently going on. He was then successful for a couple of different reasons that Craig may be ignoring...
That's not to say Yak can't be successful, just saying Craig's references shouldn't be used as evidence to say Yak can do it.
This is like the guy who said "Belein went to Wheeling so playing career doesn't matter" when arguing against Howard. Ignoring that Beilein then spent 20+ years before he got to a major conference program.
I think the discussion about how many years you have to be an assistant coach because it's allowable for you to be considered a viable HC candidate is silly. If a guy has shown the ability to do the job, why would it matter that he wait a couple of years more before he's elevated to the spot? And if you don't think he has the ability yet and needs some mentoring, figure out if you can provide it in-house or suggest he get it elsewhere and return.
"If a guy has shown the ability to do the job, why would it matter that he wait a couple of years more before he's elevated to the spot?"
This reminds me of Michigan hockey. The perfect time for Red to retire was after the 2010-11 season, and Mel would have been perfectly positioned to take over. Instead, Red hangs on for reasons, Mel goes to Tech, and Michigan hockey gradually declines to a craptastic finish for Berenson. Pearson should have just completed his 8th season at Michigan.
Imagine where we'd be if Mel had taken over in 2011 rather than Red just coasting into mediocrity for another 5 years. I know Red built the program, but his reluctance to retire is going to cause about a decade of mediocrity by the time Mel digs us out (which is probably still 2-3 years away)
I'm not positive that Mel gets the job if Red retires then. I get the impression that Mel was told he needed HC experience, and that was part of why he made the (torturous and much-wavered-on) decision to go to Tech.
And lest you think I'm overstating it, remember that our AD at the time was Dave Brandon.
There's a non-zero chance that Red stayed on specifically because he didn't trust DB to replace him.
"There's a non-zero chance that Red stayed on specifically because he didn't trust DB to replace him."
This statement alone is reason enough to start pouring molten bronze in the likeness of Red Berenson...
this is what I recall as well. DB said something along the lines of, "Michigan is not a place where new HCs cut their teeth - HCing experience is a pre-req for a M coach."
within a month Mel took the MTU job after having turned it down 6-10 weeks earlier allegedly.
That's my recollection as well. Mel was essentially the coach in waiting, but Brandon told him he needed head coaching experience if he wanted to coach here so he left for Houghton. Another stroke of genius by Macaroni Man
Never noticed your points before. I cannot fathom the time it must take to earn that many points.
I think the discussion about how many years you have to be an assistant coach because it's allowable for you to be considered a viable HC candidate is silly
I don't disagree. The point of my comment was that Craig using past AC's success to draw conclusions on Yak's potential future success doesn't work when the circumstances are completely different.
If the question is "can the guy handle it" well then we can discuss that. But saying a guy who was an AC for 10 years, a HC for 1 (and went like 15-1 in conference at a Mid-Major) before taking over Purdue is akin to Yak's future progression is... off.
Sure, but you kinda did the same thing. Frieder was an assistant for 7 seasons before his head job -- and you're just rounding that up to "a decade". Meanwhile Yaklich has been a college assistant for 6 years and that's being blown off as nowhere near adequate. Can you explain the value of the magical 7th year and why that makes you qualified when 6 years doesn't?
Frieder was the AC at Michigan for 7 years. Yak was the AC at a Mid-Major for 3 or 4 years. Those 2 things are not the same.
7 years isn't the magical number, but 7 years at a big time program >> 3 or 4 years at a mid-major followed by 2 at a big program. Or, at least, they're different.
I can't remember where everyone was for exactly how long, but the point is that the guys Craig compared Yak to 1) outside of Painter got their start 20+ years ago and Orr being mentioned is laughable and 2) had different circumstances.
You could argue Yak took Michigan's defense to top 5 almost immediately as the AC which is more impressive than what the other coaches did and that would be a fine argument. But again, Orr was an AC and Yak is an AC, so Yak can be as successful as Orr is just bad (super dumbed down regression of the argument).
Waiting gives you a larger sample size when it comes to assessing their work, recruiting ability, etc. So it's not a bad argument to say that we should wait a few more years to assess Yak.
I'm not saying that's what I think we should do, but it's a legitimate point to argue. The question is whether we have enough data from Yak in 2 years to make a reasonable assessment on his coaching ability at this level.
1. We know that the defense is ALL him and that he can coach the hell out of players on defense. Seems to be able to get strong buy-in from his players and is well-liked by them.
2. From all reports, Yak seems to be a good recruiter and was the main guy that helped land Castleton. So we know he can land 4 star guys.
It does remain to be seen whether Yak can do this all as the main guy without having a legend like Beilein running the program, but it looks promising. The other thing I think it's important to mention is that Beilein places a high value on ability to teach while coaching because it's something he cares deeply about. He thought highly enough of Yak's teaching acumen that he hired him. JB is picky and has very high standards. We saw the fruit of this in how Yak taught and whipped the defense into top shape.
The more I think about it, the higher I put Yak on my list. What we have experienced with him so far have been results that are exceeded by only 1 or 2 other teams in the country when it comes to defense. I think he's smart enough to know what he doesn't know on the offense side of things and could hire someone who can do that with excellence.
I'm talking myself into Yak more and more.
Thanks for the recap.
I would say that Warde having a list and also vetting those people (along with others) via a search firm is exactly the protocol you want to see. Treating that as a negative is just showing bias.
Donovan
Juwan
Yak
I'm not that interested in Prohm (I live in Iowa - his team was pretty good this year but also dropped some winnable games against weak Big XII teams and it cost them a chance at the regular season title). I mean I guess he wouldn't be the worst but if it came down to him and Yak I say you might as well go with Yak.
For me it's Donovan or Prohm (or a similar established HC) and then you might as well promote Yak or Washington. I know people love the idea of Howard, but if he was anyone else with that resume nobody would be talking about him. And at this point, you know a Yak-based team would be a really solid defensively at least. With Howard, it's all speculation, and there's a world where he struggles with multiple aspects of the NBA-to-college transition and flames out.
Guess I'm not as high on Juwan Howard as a lot of others on this board. I mean I'd definitely hire him over Porter Moser, but he's only ever been an NBA assistant. That's not a disqualification by itself, and yes, from what I've heard he has been a good assistant in the NBA. But:
-Does he know how to recruit? Does he care to recruit? Today's generation of recruits know who the Fab Five were, but those guys played a long time ago. Not likely a kid is going to commit to play for him because "Hey man, he was part of the Fab Five!" If all he wants to do is coach the team, that wouldn't work in college.
-Never ran his own program. Again, not a disqualification, but its definitely something to consider. At least with Yaklich, he has a boatload of experience at the collegiate level, and is a great recruiter.
-Even if Howard does really well at Michigan, you're looking at a guy who almost certainly has aspirations of being a HC in the NBA, so you're starting this process all over again in 3-5 years.
Howard is a bit of a wild card, and he probably has a pretty high ceiling if things work out. But there's a whole lot of ifs and maybes with him. Unless you're left with candidates who would clearly sell the program short if you hired them (i.e. Moser), I'd probably just take a pass on Howard. Hire Yaklich instead. At least with Yaklich, he's got the college game experience and the recruiting chops.
Yaklich does not have a boatload of experience at the college level.
Yaklich has been a college assistant for 6 seasons. Howard has been an NBA assistant for 6 seasons. Comparing Yaklich (6 years) to Howard (0 years), Yaklich has a boatload of college experience. Not sure why you want to split hairs on that. His point is pretty clear and fair.
Guys who make the jump from assistant to head coach at a major program generally have a decade of assistant coaching experience at that school alone. For example Izzo was at MSU for 12 years and associate head coach in addition to 5 years at Northern Michigan.
The word boatload implies that Yaklich has a lot of experience, he has almost none.
"Boatload" is an arbitrary, indefinite term. It is defined as "A large amount." Yaklich has infinitely more college experience than Juwan Howard. Is infinity enough to constitute a large amount? I think so.
I don't know why you're spinning off into the Izzo-sphere, but this is about the author saying Yaklich has a boatload of college experience while comparing him to Juwan Howard who has none. It holds up.
You claim Yaklich has "almost none", when defining his college experience. That's categorically false. He has 6 years as an assistant. That's nowhere near "none". Juwan Howard actually has none. You are way further off base with "almost none" to describe 6 years than he was with "boatload" to describe infinitely more. I feel like you don't know what you're saying.
I'm excited to keep this debate going.
Yaklich has a boatload more college coaching experience than Howard. True statement.
Yaklich has a boatload of college coaching experience. False statement.
Craig Ross is nice but wrong a lot. You can find examples of almost anything working, just because there are a few exceptions doesn't mean there aren't a lot more failures. Yaklich wasn't even the guy running the team in Europe or when Beilein got tossed.
didn't osu hire a football coach who leapfrogged other way more experienced fellow assistants? yaklich leapfrogging saddi is not much of a stretch.
OSU's other coaches had some problems. Probably wouldn't have passed the vetting stage, unless you don't mind allegations of player mistreatment, which brings up the question, why did Urbz hire those guys in the first place?
So Billy Donovan it is. Nice.
He isn't interested, but he did recommend Shaka Smart who was his assistant.
Get a parrot and teach it to say fuck Izzo
NBA head coaches aren't interested.
If Sam is correct, then go get Nate Oats. Who cares if he won't interview.
The update today from Sam in depressing.
Basically no interest from the NBA coaches.
Donovan recommended Shaka Smart...
oh lord...so that is why Sam was all on shaka today
OP, did they say anything as to why Beilein would turn down the Magic job (a much better job talent wise) and take this one? Just curious, also thanks for the update!
Heard Sam say earlier that the distance from home was an issue. He wanted to be in this area.
I can't start a thread...but Jalen Wilson has decommitted.
Source?
His own mouth...errr thumbs?
Just refreshed and saw the threads pop up. Yikers.
+1 for actually informative
Would Yaklich stay if Shaka was hired?
Ugh. Talk about Hoke-ing up the search in the worst way. I don't even know if I would stay if Smart was hired.
Lol, I was just reading the old men bitch about millennials post regarding head coaching experience. Now we see our favorite old man, Craig Ross, hopping on the Yaklich train! I love it. If you can’t get someone like Donovan or Prohm, let the kid take wheel.
Bottom line from panel
Juwan
Nate Oats
Yak.
Fine by me.
Just promote Yak and pair him with a top notch assistant ($1mil+) and call it a day. If Donovon doesn't happen in the next week, it's not happening. Every day goes by makes the not happening more likely. I just don't know if Juwan would take the job...he's right on the fringe of getting an NBA head coach job.
If they are still in search firm vetting we are royally fucked...I really hope there are just smoke screens all over the place.