Coach Warinner comments on MI protective protocols and their impact on practice this season (freep article)
Long time lurker but found this article today and thought, what the heck, there may be more behind closed doors than any of us know. The way MI has protected itself this season may be PART of the reason why results have been less than stellar. Food for thought. Coach Warinner:
“It’s been challenging," offensive line coach Ed Warinner said last week. "We’ve had a lot of guys miss a lot of time because of contact tracing because of this or that. You get the sniffles you miss two days because they’re checking to see and double-checking to see, which is the right thing to do whether or not you have COVID, so you’re out a practice. And then all of a sudden you miss the two work days of practice and you’re back in and are you really ready to go when you miss the two bulk days of practice, who knows? We’ve had all kinds of things going on that have interrupted continuity in training.”
Not defending or calling for Coach Harbaugh’s job, just another data point the school might be considering in its OODA loop.
(didn’t see this posted as a main entry, apologies if duplicative info)
December 1st, 2020 at 7:37 AM ^
Meanwhile, Wisconsin loses half of the team for 3 weeks and clobbers us a day later by 42 points
December 1st, 2020 at 8:14 AM ^
Speaking of teams having Covid and now Michigan as the OP's links indicate, there are multiple sources from the Daily to Mlive to Detroit News, etc. reporting multiple positive tests for CV on the football team. They are waiting for confirmation of test results. All in-person activity has been temporarily halted.
https://www.michigandaily.com/section/football/michigan-pauses-all-person-activities
I thought there might have been a thread on this last night that was up briefly but our mods must have deleted it for some reason that makes no sense when it is all over the news.
December 1st, 2020 at 8:27 AM ^
There was both a front page article and a message board post about it yesterday. The removed message board post to which you're referring was a repost that came long after the initial news came out. As LSA noted in his Mod Action post, if a piece of news came out more than 10 minutes ago it almost assuredly has already been mentioned.
No nefarious dealings or culpability with respect to "protecting the program" or anything like that...just simply decluttering the message board.
December 1st, 2020 at 8:15 AM ^
I see it now near the bottom of the page. My bad.
December 1st, 2020 at 8:22 AM ^
Has Covid impacted Michigan's season....Yes. Has Covid accounted for poor recruiting, roster management, weak QB recruiting and development, overall player development, poor game plan / play calling, etc.....No!
Lets stop looking at Covid as the problem. At year 6, we have what seems to be crazy thin depth on defense and no viable QB (Cade may very well be the guy, but he hasn't even played a full game as our QB). Jim Harbaugh is clearly the problem. Covid has exacerbated the problem for sure.
December 1st, 2020 at 8:49 AM ^
One thing you can say about Harbaugh, he will never use excuses, blame outside influences or throw his coaches or players under the bus. You have to respect that.
December 1st, 2020 at 9:24 AM ^
You are right and he has also made sure kids graduate, but I cannot respect:
- 0-5 vs OSU
- 3-3 vs MSU
- 0 B1G titles, nor even playing in the title game let alone CFP
- best road win is against #20 Northwestern
- 1-4 in bowl games
- 0-15 when Michigan is an underdog
- 2-12 vs. top 10 teams
- worst halftime deficit in Michigan stadium history & 2nd worst loss ever at home
- home loss to an 0-5 team & 4 straight home losses
- 4th highest paid coach in the country
December 1st, 2020 at 9:31 AM ^
That's nice. I'd rather have him win some games.
December 1st, 2020 at 8:30 AM ^
To quote a HC of notoriety: "Hard to beat the cheaters."
December 1st, 2020 at 9:49 AM ^
Sure. So can we beat the non cheaters at least? No? Ok moving on.
December 1st, 2020 at 12:37 PM ^
Cheating is used very subjectively in College athletics. Imo I feel that everyone does, and the people who say the others are cheating are being hypocritical of themselves because they chose not to cheat as much lol. It's so funny
December 1st, 2020 at 12:04 PM ^
Malarkey (lies). You did get in first.
Wisconsin had a total of 15 players out some time during the 3 weeks. All starters practiced the full week of the game. Ten starters on the offense are 4th or 5th players. The defense averages 4.56 years of experience.
December 1st, 2020 at 7:42 AM ^
All of this could be true, and maybe it is, but this excuse is ten-ply.
We got demolished, DEMOLISHED, by a Wisco team that had not practiced for nearly three weeks. If they could turn right around and clobber us with little to no live practice, then something is dreadfully wrong within the program.
I will say that I am generally impressed that it has taken this long for anyone on the team to even test “presumptive positive” and I think it is commendable and speaks to how the coaches and AD care about the players.
December 1st, 2020 at 7:51 AM ^
Indeed. Stop with the excuses. This team plays flat an uninspired which at this point is the only thing during the Jim Harbaugh era you can consistently expect. Move on.
December 1st, 2020 at 8:40 AM ^
In addition, we still have the disease of attrition. The number of promising young players up and leaving for no discernible reason has nothing to do with COVID protocols theast few months.
December 1st, 2020 at 8:55 AM ^
People keep saying this, but other than James Hudson (who starts, but I don't know how good he is) Who left that would be helping us? The discernible reason is playing time, or whatever excuse they used for leaving. Our biggest needs are defensive lineman and LB's and the ones that left just aren't very good.
December 1st, 2020 at 9:07 AM ^
I'm not going to research every player who has gone elsewhere and evaluate how they are performing. If they all transferred because they were not very good, then that is terrible talent development, or outright misses in recruiting. For example, look how many QBs have left the program. In fact, have any of Harbaugh recruited QBs even stayed for the whole of their careers? Was every QB he recruited that bad at football? That's an even worse indictment.
Also, look at the defensive line class from 2017. 8 guys, and only one (Kwity Paye) has done anything significant.
Here I'll make it easy: Solomon, Vilain, Hudson, Irving-Bay, Malone-Hatcher, Jeter, Paea, Paye. Only the last two were 3 stars. I understand that Malone Hatcher had a career ending injury, which happens. But you can't keep blaming every last miss on injuries.
December 1st, 2020 at 9:14 AM ^
Ha, that is my new favorite excuse. "Yeah, but those guys that left weren't any good". Ok, sure, then why did UM bring them in in the first place or why didn't they get better? That actually makes the argument worse.
December 1st, 2020 at 9:16 AM ^
You can add Kelley-Powell, Woods, Singleton, and Anthony from the defensive recruits from that class who are gone. Whether it was lack of coaching development, mis-identification in recruiting, or whatever (probably a little of all), you just can't have that many misses in your class that should be your 4th year players.
December 1st, 2020 at 9:17 AM ^
That entire class was more decimated than any train wreck classes from the Hoke or RR eras.
December 1st, 2020 at 10:01 AM ^
Magnus does it for us:
https://touch-the-banner.com/ex-wolverine-updates-week-12-5/
I'm not laying blame anywhere, and you are right it's just bad player evaluations or lack of development, but my point is, those players being here wouldn't be helping much now.
QB's
- Speight (left for 5th yr elsewhere)
- O'Korn (transfer in)
- Gentry (converted to TE)
- Alex Malzone (transfer out)
- Patterson (transfer in)
- Peters (transfer out)
- McCaffery (not sure what he is doing)
- Milton (current roster)
- McNamara (current roster)
December 1st, 2020 at 10:43 AM ^
Okay, my apologies if I misunderstood your point (I've been on the receiving end enough to know how frustrating that is). I do agree with that statement.
December 1st, 2020 at 11:23 AM ^
This would be my take as well. That 2017 #5 ranked recruiting class was almost a complete bust, followed by a mediocre #22 recruiting class in 2018.
We have a recruiting talent ditch on defense, compounded by Ambry opting out and then 4 other elite defensive starters injured (Hutch, Paye, McGrone, Hawkins). Defense falling from a consistent top 10 national ranking to like 95th in one year is alarming and directly impacted by injuries / opt-outs / transfers / recruiting busts. The issue ? Next year it doesn't really improve. Someone needs to come in and fill the voids from the transfer portal. I don't think that is Don Brown's style.
The offense is just really young and lacking game experience. QB recruiting is a huge issue. OL injuries makes that OL unit even younger than it was before the season started, with 3 "veterans" out and spots filed by rookies. We need J.J. McCarthy to be a huge hit for this offense to turn it around in 2021/22 ... it may take two years to get there.
I don't think firing Harbaugh does anything to improve the chances of success and may implode the current highly regarded recruiting class led by J.J. McCarthy. Warde is in a major pickle having not already extended Jim's contract. Plus, this needs to happen fast or risk losing too many of those recruits and the program's "talent ditch" actually getting even worse.
December 1st, 2020 at 9:32 AM ^
This is the dumbest argument I have seen on this board. When asked why so many players (many of which were starters at UM, in the 2 deep, or underclassmen who Michigan designated as future starters) transfer, someone inevitably says, "well tell me how many of them are doing well at other schools".
What you don't realize is you are countering your own argument. These are impact transfers at UM. Transfers that Harbaugh apologists like to use as excuses as to why he isn't getting it done (along with COVID, academics, shoelaces becoming too difficult to figure out, etc). Well here is a big question for you:
Why are impact players at UM, guys that Harbaugh is relying on, transferring to other schools (the vast majority of which are lesser programs) and not being able to get anything done? One of two answers come into play, either the recruiting misses up there are so epic that UM just lets them go, or their player development is so bad at UM that they end up barely contributing to Sam Houston State as upperclassmen after coming to Michigan as a highly recruited kid. Either way, it's a coaching problem.
So the next time someone wants to respond to the transfer questions with "What have any of them done at other schools?", re-work your question to read "Why was UM relying on this guy when he can't even make an impact at (insert XYZ school here)?". That's your problem, your transfers fade into the sunset not to be heard of again for the most part. Harbaugh is throwing talent away at an impressive clip.
December 1st, 2020 at 10:35 AM ^
That's an indictment against Harbaugh and I'm not even calling for his job yet. Look at the guys who transferred under Moeller/Carr and you find some talented NFL players (Trevor Pryce, David Bowens, Jon Ritchie).
If the excuse is "the guys who left aren't very good", then why are we recruiting a bunch of guys that turn out not to be be very good?
December 1st, 2020 at 11:33 AM ^
And then the even more involved question comes up. Are the coaches just completely whiffing on the top talent they bring in, or is the coaching so bad that they turn top talent into middling college players? I would say it's probably both, which is probably why highly rated prospects don't give Michigan much of a look any more unless they have some underlying tie to the school (family, where they grew up, friends/recruits that they talk to committed to UM).
Here is the situation they are in up there. There are so many questions that if an answer is provided to one question, it then opens up a whole other bag of questions that need to be answered.
December 1st, 2020 at 12:09 PM ^
I think it's both, but with an emphasis on the latter. It seems like a lot of players start out looking promising as 1st or 2nd year players, and then either don't progress or regress as they get older. Patterson, Speight and Peters come to mind. I know there have been others but QB is the easiest for the unskilled observer.
December 1st, 2020 at 2:23 PM ^
Agreed, and frankly the way things went down with DPJ still baffles me. To this day I still think the guy has all the talent. He came in thinking he has a chance at being a 1st round draft pick and left early to be a 6th round pick. That tells me he knows he wasn't going to be used properly by the coaching staff and probably assumed the chances of transferring and blowing up were slim, so he gave up and bolted to the NFL.
December 1st, 2020 at 7:44 AM ^
Here's the problem. Other teams make it work. What are Indiana, NW, Wiscy, & OSU doing that we aren't?
December 1st, 2020 at 8:17 AM ^
"It's hard to beat the cheaters."
December 1st, 2020 at 8:19 AM ^
Winning?
December 1st, 2020 at 8:24 AM ^
Returning most of their teams/staying healthy? I don’t know the exact number of returning players for each team, but I know Indiana and NW returned a TON of players and that experience is valuable in season like this. OSU can simply rotate in their new top 100 recruits, and Wisconsin is a machine that can plug and play juniors and seniors that have been in the same system for years. I mean thats really all I’ve got *shrugs*. Michigan is very young and replacing a lot of starters in key positions, and dealing with injuries with a lot of those replacements.
Four of our 5 OL from last year went to the NFL. Three of our new starting OL have gotten injured, and one of the guys replacing those 3 is now injured. We have played four true or redshirt freshmen on the OL this year. Both of our All-American candidates at DE have missed time with injury and one is out for the year. McGrone has been in and out of the lineup and played with a cast when he was in. Hawkins has also been in and out of the lineup. A lot to replace for a young team that missed out on spring ball entirely. Not impossible, but it is a lot.
That’s still no excuse for the uninspired play and lack of effort, but it’s certainly an explanation for some of the struggles we have seen. Everyone is dealing with CoVid, but it doesn’t affect every team in the same way and it isn’t handled by every team in the same way.
If what Warriner is saying is true, we missed spring practice and players are missing a couple practices here and there out of precaution. That is going to have a significant impact on a young roster, and a significant impact on the cohesiveness of an inexperienced roster. Again, that’s not an excuse for a lot of the issues we have seen from this team. But it does shed some light on why we may be seeing some of the issues.
December 1st, 2020 at 8:40 AM ^
Michigan should be at the point where they can "plug and play" from their "depth" (which is non-existent).
December 1st, 2020 at 11:48 AM ^
Yes and no.
Scheme changes make the plug and play less plausible, as guys like BVS and Mason have no real role in the offense. The plug and play method really only works when you have a set system in place (like Wisconsin) or if you recruit out of this world (like OSU). Early NFL/CoVid departures and injuries have also left positions like WR very young, to where your “plug” guys are true or redshirt freshmen.
Again back to the OL, we already were replacing 4 starters. 3 of the starters from this year and a backup have missed time. How realistic is it to replace your whole line, then have to play your 7th or 8th best OL and still be an effective OL? Add in missing spring practice and players being in and out of the lineup for CoVid precautions.
It’s not an excuse for how bad it’s been this year at all, but you do start to see the reason some of it is happening
December 1st, 2020 at 9:23 AM ^
That’s still no excuse for the uninspired play and lack of effort, but it’s certainly an explanation for some of the struggles we have seen. Everyone is dealing with CoVid, but it doesn’t affect every team in the same way and it isn’t handled by every team in the same way.
I hear ya. There are some reasonable explanations for struggles, but nothing for as bad as it is. Even the injury issues don't explain it all as we were healthy against MSU and still struggled. Guys who are 4-star recruits and upperclassman like Filiaga, Milton, Jeter, and Kemp, and guys that are no longer freshman like Hinton should be able to show more than they are. That doesn't even count the guys that are sitting on the bench unable to displace the starters like Mazi Smith & Jalen Perry. Both are 4-star guys that can't beat out struggling upperclassman. And, some of our backups like Vilain are borderline 5-star guys. In a hypothetical world there's no reason a lineup that has the majority of it as 4-star guys, none of which are true freshman, should struggle this bad, even if they are first year starters. Guys like Hinton, Hayes, Ross, Filiaga, Jeter, Vilain, Milton, etc. should be ready to be good B1G players based on their recruiting profiles if they have been properly IDed for our system as recruits and developed.
December 1st, 2020 at 10:28 AM ^
What are each of those teams doing this year that we aren't? I honestly have no idea. However I do know that Michigan beat and/or destroyed each of those teams (besides OSU), either in 2018 or 2019, along with thorough ass-kickings of ND and MSU for good measure.
Not necessarily defending Harbaugh because things weren't always great in that time span, and obviously aren't great in 2020. And I've been going back and forth on Harbaugh depending on the day recently, I hate to admit.
December 1st, 2020 at 11:39 AM ^
However I do know that Michigan beat and/or destroyed each of those teams (besides OSU), either in 2018 or 2019, along with thorough ass-kickings of ND and MSU for good measure.
In those years it seemed like we just couldn't get over the hump because of some single area like the QB or the DTs and/or only elite teams could exploit us. But, we were perfectly content kicking the shit out of Rutgers, MSU, etc. Instead of those positions getting better they are getting worse. Now we are also finding other areas that we can't play that we used to be good at like the pass rush and the o-line. So, combine the lack of development from old problems and add in the new ones with the turnover on the o-line, WR, DB, and QB and we have a serious multi-faceted problem where we can't do much of anything well. Shit, we can't even kick FGs. It doesn't really matter any longer why or how we got here. The fact is it shouldn't be this bad. There is a large overarching problem and it's time for a change.
December 1st, 2020 at 10:37 AM ^
1) Maybe those teams changed how they are doing things for this season because they can adapt?
2) Maybe those teams have something to play for so the players are following instructions on how to be safe because they do not want to hurt the team? Wisconsin is the one exception and I would bet a certain QB celebrated his opening performance a little too much and that is what precipitated their initial outbreak. They have not seemed to have problems since.
I wondered what would happen with teams once their season was wasted with regards to following covid protocols closely.
December 1st, 2020 at 11:02 AM ^
those places are trying to be good at football, instead of trying to be good at michigan football.
December 1st, 2020 at 7:44 AM ^
Warinner is an excellent OL coach. We have experienced that and benefited greatly from his inclusion on the staff. I don't think there is much dispute with that. Probably our only successful offensive position group with players getting drafted and/or NFL status.
We have a lot of young and inexperienced OL playing due to injuries and turnover not to mention the covid issues he describes here. I honestly don't blame Warinner much for the OL production. The question is how much improved are the players over the course of the season, and based off what was announced who knows if we will have much of a chance to judge that much longer.
This is a messed up year.
December 1st, 2020 at 8:24 AM ^
Ditto on the Warriner stuff.
I doubt it’ll happen assuming JH leaves, but I’d love to see Warriner stay for continuity sake. As shitty as our OL is right now, we are playing A LOT of young players. We have solid young OL talent & none of them have burned their eligibility this year due to the freebie COVID waiver.
If we can somehow keep Warriner, then out of this whole shitty COVID 2020 season, I can see at least one silver lining: potentially the best OL in the nation come 2022 & 2023....just when JJ McCarthy should be fully weaponized at the QB position (assuming Harbaugh doesn’t break him first).
December 1st, 2020 at 9:37 AM ^
I'm hoping we get a new staff but Warinner stays. Keeping Mattison was one of the best things Harbaugh did.
But more likely we get stuck with Harbaugh for 6 more years and average 7-6 seasons.
December 1st, 2020 at 11:30 AM ^
I think it would be a strong possibility that Warriner stays on if Campbell is hired (BIG if I know), due to their Mt. Union connection. Could also say the same thing about Zordich which would be smart since he's improved his recruiting chops recently.
December 1st, 2020 at 10:23 AM ^
Couldn't agree with you more. I literally would sweep every one of these position coaches outside of Warriner. The guy is a true pro and his groups are the only groups I have consistently improve from the start of the season to the end. He's a great teacher and might be the only guy on this current staff that coaches kids up.
December 1st, 2020 at 8:13 AM ^
This team has been failed by their coaches. They came out and play incredibly inspired against Minnesota, which I attribute very little to the coaches. These kids had uncertainty about the season for months, and they finally got the chance to go out and play. This was on the road against a team that won 11 games. The defense was hitting, the offense looked fluid. They seemed to want to rally around Joe even with his shortcomings, he seems like the type of kid that everyone wants to play around. This team had it in them to come out and play hungry
The coaches really let them down after that. While the team was riding high after beating a (now we know a very over-)ranked team. It was the coaches job to prepare them for the MSU game at an even higher level. They didn't, and they allowed a garbage team to beat them at home running effectively one play all game. The clock management was abysmal, and they effectively gave away 4 points to set up a stupid wildcat pass.
Now after that game, the team still had all its goals in front of them. Instead, they came out flat on defense vs Indiana. Once the playcalling opened up, the offense seemed to breathe life into them again, but it was too little too late.
Still, they had a chance to right the ship playing a night game at home against a ranked team who hadn't played in 3 weeks. The defense again came out uninspired, and by the time Joe threw his second pick, you could effectively close the book on the season.
While this team isn't great and had some injuries, they flat out should have won at least 4 and maybe even 5 games at this point. The 2014 team did not quit on Hoke like they have on Harbaugh. That team went and played the future national champions toe to toe for over 3 quarters. If this year's team ends up playing OSU they will lose by 50+ to a team that most likely won't even make the CFP championship game.
In the words of Proposition Joe: "Call it a crisis of leadership."
December 1st, 2020 at 8:43 AM ^
This is not directed at the OP.
The one thing that I am somewhat happy about with all of these recent struggles is that more and more fans are tired of the excuse making. When I was younger, the excuses were woven into this fanbase. I don't think I remember a single loss, even if it was by 14+, where Michigan fans didn't bring up officiating, poor luck, injuries, whatever.
I think this has finally started to end the excuse making that former fans have made.
December 1st, 2020 at 9:39 AM ^
Hit the brakes, people still think you guys were an inch away in 2016 from a National Championship.
December 1st, 2020 at 10:54 AM ^
A national championship? No. Not any reasonable Michigan fan was thinking that, anyway. The same Clemson team that castrated and disemboweled OSU in the semifinals would've likely done the same to Michigan.
But an inch away from beating OSU? From a Big Ten title and playoff appearance? Yeah Michigan really was that close. I think the evidence pretty plainly shows that.
December 1st, 2020 at 11:36 AM ^
What evidence? If that spot goes your way, UM still has to go face Wisconsin in a high profile, championship on the line game that you have to win to even get in the playoff.
What about Jim Harbaughs years leading up to that moment makes you think that you had a legitimate chance to go beat Wisconsin just to get a chance to make the playoff.
You were not an inch away from the playoff (regardless of what would have happened had you been there). You were an inch away from probably going and losing to Wisconsin in Indiana, followed by a loss in a NY6 bowl game.
December 1st, 2020 at 12:10 PM ^
What's my evidence? What about Harbaugh's year up to that moment makes me think we had a legitimate chance to go beat Wisconsin?
Oh, I don't know, man. Maybe because Michigan had beat Wisconsin earlier in the year. Held them to 159 total yards and forced three turnovers. Not sure how much clearer it can get for evidence than that. Sure, that's no guarantee we would've beat them again, but its a pretty darn good indicator that Michigan could have, and arguably would have.
If you're going to troll me, at least take the time to do your research and get it right.