I think it would be a strong possibility that Warriner stays on if Campbell is hired (BIG if I know), due to their Mt. Union connection. Could also say the same thing about Zordich which would be smart since he's improved his recruiting chops recently.
Honestly, I don't care who coaches the team as long as he doesn't use the term "Michigan brand". Michigan is a lot like Blockbuster--they thought their brand was the most important asset and didn't adjust to the digital age of movies and TV, thinking Netflix was a fad. The fact is that no one outside the program gives a shit about the "brand" and it speaks to the toxic culture that permeates into the program.
The next coach should strip every traditional "Michigan" thing down and let the players know that there is nothing special about winning a national title in WW2. The reason 1997 was so special was because the team and coaches bought into changing the narrative of being "mediocre Michigan". I really liked Harbaugh when he was hired, but it's time to just start at ground zero and build the program from the bottom-up again, not harp on the past. Personally, I would get rid of those stupid footballs in SH for each win.
I personally think Ryan Day is a good coach because of his ability to adjust and strategize. And while he may be more x's and o's savvy than Urban Meyer, I just don't know how he will handle decision-making in a close game. Props to him for game planning so well that OSU has beaten every team by 20+ points, but I want to see how things go when their back is against the wall. Something we haven't seen yet, which IMO, makes a coach like Saban, Meyer, even Dabo right now elite.
There was a moment after Shea's pass to DPJ where McDaniels sat Shea down and I could read his lips saying "that's a give read". I think he's still not comfortable with some of his run reads in the offense but you could see him as a more willing runner. Hopefully he gets to the point where he limits these mistakes which will help the run game even more. I think he was overcompensating for his missed keep reads from other games by pulling in some situations where he should've given.
Agreed but I think Gattis didn't do a good job early of making sure the players had the fundamentals of the offense down. I think he probably thought the players were advanced enough to learn the concepts of his offense in the spring and fall quickly but in recent weeks they've emphasized the fundamentals of the offense and what makes it successful from a basic execution standpoint.
Such a tired narrative that Harbaugh's teams don't have energy when the game starts. I watched the skycam version of the Penn State game and you can see all the players on the Michigan sideline screaming and yelling just as much as Penn State. LSU doesn't win games because Coach O rips his shirt off.
Plus it's not like we haven't seen guys develop later in their careers (Godin, Williams) under Harbaugh. It seems like JBB has changed his body and could be better, it's just silly to write him off because of confirmation bias.
Same with Florida State the year we played in the Orange Bowl. Actually watched all of that and found it super interesting. You could see the confidence in their defense grow after they got torched by Louisville.
I know this may be a hot take but I think that recruiting suffered this year because of the lack of efficient recruiters on the trail. I think Harbaugh got too bogged down in the idea of getting "NFL" coaches and thought that would take care of itself. He seemed to remedy that by solidifying the recruiting department with Dudek and Magee (who I think will have a huge impact in 2019) and hiring more dogs on the recruiting trail. I happen to think he's more aware of the issues than we here give him credit for.
That being said, I think he does need to cut ties with Drevno. Not because of his coaching necessarily (I actually think he's a good coach, just has been dealt a bad hand), but because of his lack of recruiting ability.
Obviously I'm not happy with where things are at but I think with the right QB and an older core of the team, which we did not have at all in 2017, we can make make some noise in 2018. I refuse to believe that Harbaugh is just going to roll over and just say fuck it.
Sucks but it is what it is. I agree with the offensive line sentiment. Although, I think there are some stud OL on the team now, just redshirt or true freshmen.
Why? He's actually improved a lot over the year and is a great run blocker. He's not a great pass blocker but he's beyond serviceable. Plus, if he comes back that's effectively 4 returning o-lineman (counting Ruiz at C)
I actually think JBB is improving in pass pro. With another offseason, he could become a decent RT and potentially a LT in case of emergency.
With Ruiz, I think the fact that he's seeing the field as a true freshman is a good indication he can slide into the center spot next year. Kugler seeing his first real action this year is indicative that Ruiz has a higher ceiling.
Yes but I did notice something that was interesting for their team last year and that was what they were returning at key positions. JT at QB obviously, their best lineman from 2015, their best H-Back/RB from 2015 and that was just on offense.
Also, most of their inexperienced starters had at least 3 years in the program before playing.
Conversely, Michigan is relying more on 2nd-year players than OSU did. Obviously they have older guys on the line but their best lineman is playing out of his natural position and the other two couldn't get on the field at an earlier point in their career. It really just comes down to the lack of contributors from the 2014 and 2015 class.
For fuck's sake. There's 6 games left to be played this season. Why are we just assuming next year won't be any better? There is no evidence to suggest that whatsoever
I don't mean that like it's long term for the players, I just mean the program. Even in simple offenses, most players don't really contribute until their 2nd or 3rd year anyway. I think the team is on that same schedule. It's important to note that irrespective of the offensive philosophy, we're asking a lot of young players that other programs just simply don't have to deal with.
Harbaugh is a program builder and I still feel pretty optimistic about the future.
You're right and I'm not suggesting Harbaugh is above criticism. I'm not happy with some of the playcalling and certainly running play action on 4th and 11 was interesting to say the least.
It's just harder than people think for young receivers to make an impact regardless of the offensive approach. I mean look at OSU last year. In an easier scheme, receivers had trouble getting open because they were mostly freshman and sophomores.
I think that's what it comes down to for a lot of people. It's funny, my buddy who's an OSU fan HATES Urban's offense. He thinks it works well when playing mediocre teams and is inefficient versus good teams. Plus he loves the manball style of just breaking the will of the opponent.
I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of the system Beilein runs (mainly because I feel like it hurts our interior defense), but I just kinda go with it.
Yes I totally understand and you may be right. Harbaugh also understands this and if he truly believes that his system can't be effective, then he would do what James Franklin did.
I just think his system is more of a long-term investment that is going through some volatility right now. Unfortunately, this 3rd year myth, perpetrated mostly by the media, has people thinking we should be crushing teams right now. The fact of the matter is that every program is different and we have an absurdly unbalanced roster.
You have every right to be frustrated, hell I am frustrated as well. But I always give Harbaugh the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this stuff.
Look, this is why people find our fan base so arrogant. This isn't a shot at you OP, just a general frustration that I have with the fan base.
So many people thought by firing Rich Rod that was the right move because "the spread doesn't work in the Big Ten". And now, we have Jim Harbaugh, who not only is a proven coach, but also runs an offense that is a modern pro-style system. As other, more technical posters have said, the offense is in its simplest form because of the youth of the skill positions and offensive line.
And now we wanna go back to spread? Well that's not who Harbaugh is and that's not what got him success at other stops. It's just fan arrogance to think that we should completely revamp the offense because we are going through growing pains when we have to replace every skill position player and 3 offensive lineman from last year.
The past 10 years have made me a pretty glass half full Michigan fan given the turmoil of two bad coaches. I think what people should realize is that Michigan is relying on young players at KEY positions. Our entire defense is not only inexperienced but also filled with 2nd-year players. When you look at young teams that have done well, like OSU last year, the young players were mostly redshirt sophomores. Even the inexperienced Alabama players have had experience in the program. I know people think certain positions should be farther along in year 3, but I truly believe we will look back in 3 years and see this year as the exception in the Harbaugh era. If coaching changes need to be made, Harbaugh will do that. He's loyal to his assistants but he's also competitive as fuck, so I don't think he would hesitate to make staff changes.
Maybe I'm just a blind follower, but to me, this guy has been successful EVERYWHERE he's been, no reason to think he can't do it here. Have faith and Trust the Process
Look I'm as frustrated as anyone, believe me. But a loss was coming to this young team eventually. It sucks it was against MSU, most annoyingly because it creates a narrative that Harbaugh can't beat his rivals, overrated, blah blah blah. Losses like these fuel players more than anything and are the ultimate moments that put steel in your spine (like Harbaugh said after 2015 MSU game). The fact of the matter is that young players respond the best to these losses. When one player responds to adversity, more players begin to respond.
To me this is a program-forging loss. While I'm pissed, think about how the players feel. This is the fuel that we need. You may think I'm crazy but I think the line will begin to gel, the running backs are gonna start hitting their holes harder and the young receivers will respond to the challenge of getting open. This will take some pressure off O'Korn and he might start gun-slinging again.
The coaches will also get better from this. They haven't forgotten how to coach and they will get better and use this game as fuel.
It may seem dire now and like it won't be better but I promise you this team will be damn tough to beat in Ann Arbor on November 25th. I'm excited to see how we respond to this adversity and who steps up. I wouldn't want anyone else leading my favorite team on the sideline than Jim Muthafucking Harbaugh.
Get out of here with that. Very few teams reload year in year out. We should have known this when there is ONE difference maker on the offensive side of the ball that is in his fourth year (who is playing out of position by necessity).
I would argue that while the stats weren't great for him, he was awesome in that game. He engineered a few second half drives behind a sieve of an offensive line. The line played like it was 2013.
We need to calm down. For godsakes, OSU was losing to Indiana on Thursday. Let the coaches make adjustments and we're back in this thing. I trust our coaching staff to adjust and win the game. Also, only one of those picks were on Speight. I think other than that pick six he has been great.
No doubt he's not in the conversation yet. I think Meyer is a great coach but let's not act like he doesn't take advantage of circumstance. He took over a Florida and Ohio State program that both had tremendous talent acquired by the previous coaching staff. Both of those places also had a established depth and were top 10 programs at the time. In contrast, Harbaugh took over a moribund Stanford program and a Michigan program that was certainly not top 10. We have to understand that getting to a championship level from where we were takes time. If you don't believe me watch the Alabama game from 2012. We looked like a MAC team compared to that Alabama squad, which wasn't even close to their best.
Yeah we should probably just mail it in, season's over. It's not like Ohio State came back from a loss to a below average VA Tech team in 2014 to win the title that year.
If you recall JT Barrett threw for 219 yards and they averaged 2.7 yards per carry in that game so I think we all need to relax and trust our coaching staff that there will be improvement.
Having gone to Miami myself one of the best aspects of the program is the size of the rink. Goggin only holds like 3500 people so they always fill up and it is built so that the arena gets so loud during games. If OSU were to do something like that maybe that could give them some sort of advantage. But coaching overall is what separates those programs for sure.
Hackett: Jesus, you guys weren't supposed to offer him the job!!!
Search Firm: But I thought you hired us to find the best candidate to balance athletics and academics and offer him the job?
Hackett: No, that was all bullshit. You guys are supposed to distract the media until Harbaugh gets here. My god, it's the easiest fucking job, could you imagine if he actually took it?!!!
Recent Comments
I think it would be a strong possibility that Warriner stays on if Campbell is hired (BIG if I know), due to their Mt. Union connection. Could also say the same thing about Zordich which would be smart since he's improved his recruiting chops recently.
Honestly, I don't care who coaches the team as long as he doesn't use the term "Michigan brand". Michigan is a lot like Blockbuster--they thought their brand was the most important asset and didn't adjust to the digital age of movies and TV, thinking Netflix was a fad. The fact is that no one outside the program gives a shit about the "brand" and it speaks to the toxic culture that permeates into the program.
The next coach should strip every traditional "Michigan" thing down and let the players know that there is nothing special about winning a national title in WW2. The reason 1997 was so special was because the team and coaches bought into changing the narrative of being "mediocre Michigan". I really liked Harbaugh when he was hired, but it's time to just start at ground zero and build the program from the bottom-up again, not harp on the past. Personally, I would get rid of those stupid footballs in SH for each win.
I personally think Ryan Day is a good coach because of his ability to adjust and strategize. And while he may be more x's and o's savvy than Urban Meyer, I just don't know how he will handle decision-making in a close game. Props to him for game planning so well that OSU has beaten every team by 20+ points, but I want to see how things go when their back is against the wall. Something we haven't seen yet, which IMO, makes a coach like Saban, Meyer, even Dabo right now elite.
There was a moment after Shea's pass to DPJ where McDaniels sat Shea down and I could read his lips saying "that's a give read". I think he's still not comfortable with some of his run reads in the offense but you could see him as a more willing runner. Hopefully he gets to the point where he limits these mistakes which will help the run game even more. I think he was overcompensating for his missed keep reads from other games by pulling in some situations where he should've given.
Agreed but I think Gattis didn't do a good job early of making sure the players had the fundamentals of the offense down. I think he probably thought the players were advanced enough to learn the concepts of his offense in the spring and fall quickly but in recent weeks they've emphasized the fundamentals of the offense and what makes it successful from a basic execution standpoint.
Such a tired narrative that Harbaugh's teams don't have energy when the game starts. I watched the skycam version of the Penn State game and you can see all the players on the Michigan sideline screaming and yelling just as much as Penn State. LSU doesn't win games because Coach O rips his shirt off.
While I'm not happy with last season's outcome, none of our fans or the national media understand what it takes to actually build a program.
Everyone should remember that we lost to Rutgers (!!!) less than 4 years ago and rebuilding takes time.
Plus it's not like we haven't seen guys develop later in their careers (Godin, Williams) under Harbaugh. It seems like JBB has changed his body and could be better, it's just silly to write him off because of confirmation bias.
Same with Florida State the year we played in the Orange Bowl. Actually watched all of that and found it super interesting. You could see the confidence in their defense grow after they got torched by Louisville.
I know this may be a hot take but I think that recruiting suffered this year because of the lack of efficient recruiters on the trail. I think Harbaugh got too bogged down in the idea of getting "NFL" coaches and thought that would take care of itself. He seemed to remedy that by solidifying the recruiting department with Dudek and Magee (who I think will have a huge impact in 2019) and hiring more dogs on the recruiting trail. I happen to think he's more aware of the issues than we here give him credit for.
That being said, I think he does need to cut ties with Drevno. Not because of his coaching necessarily (I actually think he's a good coach, just has been dealt a bad hand), but because of his lack of recruiting ability.
Obviously I'm not happy with where things are at but I think with the right QB and an older core of the team, which we did not have at all in 2017, we can make make some noise in 2018. I refuse to believe that Harbaugh is just going to roll over and just say fuck it.
Sucks but it is what it is. I agree with the offensive line sentiment. Although, I think there are some stud OL on the team now, just redshirt or true freshmen.
Why? He's actually improved a lot over the year and is a great run blocker. He's not a great pass blocker but he's beyond serviceable. Plus, if he comes back that's effectively 4 returning o-lineman (counting Ruiz at C)
I actually think JBB is improving in pass pro. With another offseason, he could become a decent RT and potentially a LT in case of emergency.
With Ruiz, I think the fact that he's seeing the field as a true freshman is a good indication he can slide into the center spot next year. Kugler seeing his first real action this year is indicative that Ruiz has a higher ceiling.
Let's Fucking Go
Michigan 28
Wisconsin 10
I believe it's the youngest overall ROSTER since 2004. What is really hurting us this year IMO is just lack of guys that are in their 3rd or 4th year.
Valid, but I still feel like we'll look back on 2016 as Harbaugh's worst veteran team (and yes I believe he'll win multiple championships here).
Yes but I did notice something that was interesting for their team last year and that was what they were returning at key positions. JT at QB obviously, their best lineman from 2015, their best H-Back/RB from 2015 and that was just on offense.
Also, most of their inexperienced starters had at least 3 years in the program before playing.
Conversely, Michigan is relying more on 2nd-year players than OSU did. Obviously they have older guys on the line but their best lineman is playing out of his natural position and the other two couldn't get on the field at an earlier point in their career. It really just comes down to the lack of contributors from the 2014 and 2015 class.
Oh really? Units don't get better over a year? What is your historical data to prove this?
Uhhhhh JT Barrett broke his leg when playing us...
For fuck's sake. There's 6 games left to be played this season. Why are we just assuming next year won't be any better? There is no evidence to suggest that whatsoever
I don't mean that like it's long term for the players, I just mean the program. Even in simple offenses, most players don't really contribute until their 2nd or 3rd year anyway. I think the team is on that same schedule. It's important to note that irrespective of the offensive philosophy, we're asking a lot of young players that other programs just simply don't have to deal with.
Harbaugh is a program builder and I still feel pretty optimistic about the future.
You're right and I'm not suggesting Harbaugh is above criticism. I'm not happy with some of the playcalling and certainly running play action on 4th and 11 was interesting to say the least.
It's just harder than people think for young receivers to make an impact regardless of the offensive approach. I mean look at OSU last year. In an easier scheme, receivers had trouble getting open because they were mostly freshman and sophomores.
I think that's what it comes down to for a lot of people. It's funny, my buddy who's an OSU fan HATES Urban's offense. He thinks it works well when playing mediocre teams and is inefficient versus good teams. Plus he loves the manball style of just breaking the will of the opponent.
I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of the system Beilein runs (mainly because I feel like it hurts our interior defense), but I just kinda go with it.
I'm not conceding there isn't an issue with situational playcalling. I just think that changing the overall offensive philosophy isn't the answer.
Yes I totally understand and you may be right. Harbaugh also understands this and if he truly believes that his system can't be effective, then he would do what James Franklin did.
I just think his system is more of a long-term investment that is going through some volatility right now. Unfortunately, this 3rd year myth, perpetrated mostly by the media, has people thinking we should be crushing teams right now. The fact of the matter is that every program is different and we have an absurdly unbalanced roster.
You have every right to be frustrated, hell I am frustrated as well. But I always give Harbaugh the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this stuff.
Look, this is why people find our fan base so arrogant. This isn't a shot at you OP, just a general frustration that I have with the fan base.
So many people thought by firing Rich Rod that was the right move because "the spread doesn't work in the Big Ten". And now, we have Jim Harbaugh, who not only is a proven coach, but also runs an offense that is a modern pro-style system. As other, more technical posters have said, the offense is in its simplest form because of the youth of the skill positions and offensive line.
And now we wanna go back to spread? Well that's not who Harbaugh is and that's not what got him success at other stops. It's just fan arrogance to think that we should completely revamp the offense because we are going through growing pains when we have to replace every skill position player and 3 offensive lineman from last year.
The past 10 years have made me a pretty glass half full Michigan fan given the turmoil of two bad coaches. I think what people should realize is that Michigan is relying on young players at KEY positions. Our entire defense is not only inexperienced but also filled with 2nd-year players. When you look at young teams that have done well, like OSU last year, the young players were mostly redshirt sophomores. Even the inexperienced Alabama players have had experience in the program. I know people think certain positions should be farther along in year 3, but I truly believe we will look back in 3 years and see this year as the exception in the Harbaugh era. If coaching changes need to be made, Harbaugh will do that. He's loyal to his assistants but he's also competitive as fuck, so I don't think he would hesitate to make staff changes.
Maybe I'm just a blind follower, but to me, this guy has been successful EVERYWHERE he's been, no reason to think he can't do it here. Have faith and Trust the Process
Look I'm as frustrated as anyone, believe me. But a loss was coming to this young team eventually. It sucks it was against MSU, most annoyingly because it creates a narrative that Harbaugh can't beat his rivals, overrated, blah blah blah. Losses like these fuel players more than anything and are the ultimate moments that put steel in your spine (like Harbaugh said after 2015 MSU game). The fact of the matter is that young players respond the best to these losses. When one player responds to adversity, more players begin to respond.
To me this is a program-forging loss. While I'm pissed, think about how the players feel. This is the fuel that we need. You may think I'm crazy but I think the line will begin to gel, the running backs are gonna start hitting their holes harder and the young receivers will respond to the challenge of getting open. This will take some pressure off O'Korn and he might start gun-slinging again.
The coaches will also get better from this. They haven't forgotten how to coach and they will get better and use this game as fuel.
It may seem dire now and like it won't be better but I promise you this team will be damn tough to beat in Ann Arbor on November 25th. I'm excited to see how we respond to this adversity and who steps up. I wouldn't want anyone else leading my favorite team on the sideline than Jim Muthafucking Harbaugh.
MSU surely reloaded from going 3-9 last year...
Get out of here with that. Very few teams reload year in year out. We should have known this when there is ONE difference maker on the offensive side of the ball that is in his fourth year (who is playing out of position by necessity).
I would argue that while the stats weren't great for him, he was awesome in that game. He engineered a few second half drives behind a sieve of an offensive line. The line played like it was 2013.
We need to calm down. For godsakes, OSU was losing to Indiana on Thursday. Let the coaches make adjustments and we're back in this thing. I trust our coaching staff to adjust and win the game. Also, only one of those picks were on Speight. I think other than that pick six he has been great.
No doubt he's not in the conversation yet. I think Meyer is a great coach but let's not act like he doesn't take advantage of circumstance. He took over a Florida and Ohio State program that both had tremendous talent acquired by the previous coaching staff. Both of those places also had a established depth and were top 10 programs at the time. In contrast, Harbaugh took over a moribund Stanford program and a Michigan program that was certainly not top 10. We have to understand that getting to a championship level from where we were takes time. If you don't believe me watch the Alabama game from 2012. We looked like a MAC team compared to that Alabama squad, which wasn't even close to their best.
NOBODY ALLOCATE ANY MORE VOTES!!!
Yeah we should probably just mail it in, season's over. It's not like Ohio State came back from a loss to a below average VA Tech team in 2014 to win the title that year.
If you recall JT Barrett threw for 219 yards and they averaged 2.7 yards per carry in that game so I think we all need to relax and trust our coaching staff that there will be improvement.
56-10 Michigan
On an unrelated note, does anyone remember when Jeremy Pruitt was the DC for Hoover when they were on that show Two-a-Days like 10 years ago?
That game is also on ESPN2
I'll be there!!
The more I watch this the more I think "why is he diving to get back to the line of scrimmage?" How on earth could he think that was a good idea?
That is soooo Browns
The United States of Space!
Write this down: M-A-R-S, Mars bitches. Red Rocks!
Having gone to Miami myself one of the best aspects of the program is the size of the rink. Goggin only holds like 3500 people so they always fill up and it is built so that the arena gets so loud during games. If OSU were to do something like that maybe that could give them some sort of advantage. But coaching overall is what separates those programs for sure.
Ehh there was always effort, just not toughness.
Not even remotely true
Of all the inept things of the Hoke era this is probably the least important. Both punt styles work so long as there are 11 men on the field.
See what I did there...
Harbaugh
Yeahhhh as a Pats fan I can safely say I would rather have Harbaugh at Michigan than New England.
Hackett: Jesus, you guys weren't supposed to offer him the job!!!
Search Firm: But I thought you hired us to find the best candidate to balance athletics and academics and offer him the job?
Hackett: No, that was all bullshit. You guys are supposed to distract the media until Harbaugh gets here. My god, it's the easiest fucking job, could you imagine if he actually took it?!!!
The ownership of the Bears is extremely conservative and they won't make a move this year.
Tom Brady IS better than Peyton Manning