Charles Woodson's emphasis on OSU game statement revisited
"You know what, to be quite honest, I really feel like in recent years there hasn't been the emphasis I'm used to being put on that game," Woodson said Saturday at The ChadTough Foundation's gala in Ann Arbor. "Every game has been put on the same level as that game. That's not the way we were brought up. Not the way we were raised around here.
"We had no shame in saying (we were going to beat Ohio State). And every time I watch our teams in recent years, it's 'oh, it's another game.' It's not."
"They got it. But now it's time to go finish," he said. "The time is now. We ain't waiting anymore. ... That's it. That's the game. With us, we talked about it all the time. We could go 0-10 but if we won that game, it was a good season. We wanted to win every game, but we all knew that was the big fish.
"And we didn't mind saying it (to the media). When's the last time you guys have heard that? So you get the picture."
Anyone else wondering if anything has changed?
I don't see the same amount of obsession and focus on that game on our end that I see from them all year. They do all those dumb things that we mock them for like crossing out letters and not saying "Michigan". But it keeps the game on their minds so it works.
What do we do? What do we do for the rivalry?
What game week traditions does Michigan Football have for this game and this game only?
If anything--and it kills me to say this because I hate it--it seems like the guys take the MSU rivalry more seriously. Devin Bush said he hates MSU more than OSU and others have echoed similar things. The trash talk between the programs is goes on all year it seems between players and coaches.
This was the year to do it. There are no excuses we can use for that. Something has to change because whatever has been going on for years in regards to our intensity and focus on this game isn't cutting it.
December 11th, 2018 at 5:21 PM ^
It could be just me and the people I generally gravitate towards in the Michigan community, but aside from light trolling, much of the time I've treated - and I notice that others have treated - Ohio State fans in Michigan with far more graciousness and reasonableness than Michigan fans in Ohio State country. I don't think that's a bad thing necessarily, but it is anecdotal evidence that fans do have different views on this rivalry, I would think.
December 11th, 2018 at 5:44 PM ^
Not only different views of the rivalry, different views of life.
December 11th, 2018 at 5:54 PM ^
I think part of that comes from the culture of our University compared to theirs. A lot of our students come from out of state and we're more academically focused and a little higher brow. We fancy ourselves above the fray to a large extent. OSU is basically a cult. Few students want to go there from out of state, and the ones that do are attracted to it because of the football team. That's what makes people proud at their school, where a big chunk of our student body and in extension our alumni couldn't care less about football. Our institutional priorities are different. Although I can only speak for alumni fans, I don't know much about the psyche of "Walmart" fans. They have the advantage of being the sole real college football team in their state that we don't have, which probably heightens intensity, like politically homogeneous communities cause a positive feedback loop of greater partisanship (/no politics). Finally, the fact that we have more than one rivalry also limits us from focusing all our energy on them. Ohio State just has a number of structural advantages that we choose not to have (academically) or cannot have (existence of an in-state rival).
December 11th, 2018 at 8:13 PM ^
I think so too, but for the analogy, you are the Walmart shopper. 35% of tOSU students are out state students and 60% of all students are in the top 10% of their class. Maybe it’s easier to be selective when you are smaller. You are the Walmart shopper inasmuch as you rely on a stereotype rather than facts. The median ACT difference for acceptance is about 3 points. Rolls eyes.
So how does being “above the fray” feel every November for the last two decades? What’s your username on the Mgo Chess Team board? Cling to your tired droning on about how UM is such a better school. The reality is that they are different schools. tOSU is 60,000 students, 30% larger than the 40,000 UM students, they have an amazing research hospital and students from both universities get a great education.
There are so many great posters on this board who know football, are tied into the extensive number of factors that drive winning or losing, and then there is you... I’ll buy the next round when you celebrate you 3 point average difference in SAT scores. Your response was a total bitch response absent of fact, even your own fans don’t respect a “we smart” response.
December 11th, 2018 at 10:35 PM ^
I acknowledge you're an OSU troll, but I'll entertain you anyway.
Ohio State promotes its "top 10% of their class" ranking which doesn't mean much if their high school class is really weak. Michigan doesn't have any numbers on this, probably because it's such a variable measure. They don't publish an average entering GPA, but I found it's 3.72, Michigan's is 3.88. So OSU's is still very good, as you say, but Michigan's is still almost 0.2 points higher.
ACT score difference is 29.3 to 32.5. A difference of 3.2 out of 36. 10% of the possible range.
SAT score difference is 1334 to 1460. A difference of 120 out of 1200 point score range (400 to 1600). 10% of the possible range.
2/3 of your students are in-state. 1/2 of Michigan's are in-state. That's a pretty substantial difference. Michigan may be smaller, but there's a reason it gets a larger number of total undergraduate applicants. Both are on the common app, and according to my sister, a high school guidance counselor who was confused why I was calling her to ask this on a Tuesday night, OSU does not require a supplemental essay and Michigan requires three supplemental essays. That would, of course, back your point up even more, but being more selective means our student body is stronger academically.
4-year gradation rate: Michigan's is 79.1%, OSU's 64.6%.
6-year graduation rate: Michigan's is 89.3%, OSU's is 83.5%.
Michigan's research hospital is ranked higher by US News and World Report (15 vs 32). Michigan's law school ranks higher (8 vs 32). Its dental school ranks higher (3 vs 19). Its business school ranks higher (7 vs 31). Its engineering school ranks higher (6 vs 30).
That is not to say that Ohio State doesn't provide a great education for its students. It's a really good school. I think all states benefit from having strong public flagship universities and OSU is no exception. Michigan just happens to outperform OSU substantially in pretty much every measure of academic success, both who they're taking in and who they're putting out. I'm not bragging about my high school accomplishments, they're irrelevant, but a Michigan degree in pretty much any field is more valuable than its Ohio State counterpart, controlling for the individual's personality traits. Prestige carries weight, but an individual's ambition and drive to succeed can easily fill that gap. Where you went is not who you'll be. If I eliminated my fandom biases, I would feel good about sending my kid to OSU. I'd feel great about sending my kid to Michigan.
What I meant by "above the fray" is that our fans tend to act above the typical fan behavior. Ohio Stadium doesn't have a substantial "down in front" crowd, and that's a good thing! Our fans can be lame and quiet. Your fans don't sell their tickets to The Game to opposing fans at nearly the same rate as ours do, and that's a good thing! You misread my comment, I wish our fans were a little more like yours, I think ours are a little too pretentious, and maybe I am a little too, I can't help it, I went to Michigan. It's a cultural difference, warranted or not. And the "Walmart" comment was just me only really understanding the true essence of alumni fans, because that is what I am, and I cannot speak to the pretense or lack thereof amongst Michigan fans who did not attend the school (often referred to as "Walmart Wolverines") but I meant no derision by it.
Sorry for the long diatribe, I hate being misunderstood and I feel like I was. Congrats on the win and Rose Bowl berth. I hope you are satisfied knowing that I am eminently jealous and yearn for the glory days of the 1990's when we beat your ass regularly. But the football team I root for comes from where I chose to study, not the other way around, so of course I'm extremely proud of its academic accolades and its overall student body. Of course, I still want to win in football as well, you're right on that point. Sorry for the essay, have a nice night.
December 11th, 2018 at 11:11 PM ^
Thanks for the factual and well articulated response. There is no doubt that while tOSU is a good school and has a great research hospital, UM does fare better in academic measurements.
I understand the frustration, I lived through the Cooper years and had my heart ripped out and dreams crushed many times during that period. I grew up a tOSU fan from listening to games on the radio with my Dad. I would have enrolled there but I wanted to play football, so I elected to go to a DIII school in Columbus instead.
I came off as defensive and I did misinterpret your post. I appreciate the insight on how you became a UM fan and could not agree more that ambition and drive can make up for the prestige gap that exists.
The tide will turn and hopefully be a a more even series, that would actually be healthier for the conference. Good luck with your bowl game, beat Florida, sign Harrison and mark your calendar for Spring ball, it’s not that far away.
December 11th, 2018 at 8:56 PM ^
I really don't think that has anything to do with it anymore. 1. OSU is a much better and more selective school than ever and 2. A lot of the guys the football team recruits are from out of state now, so they're not born into the rivalry. They just do a much better job at emphasizing it.
December 11th, 2018 at 9:25 PM ^
I was referring to fans/students, not football players
December 11th, 2018 at 5:15 PM ^
I'm now convinced OSU's linebackers were remote-controlled from a coach upstairs in the box. How else could this previously undisciplined group with no demonstrated ability to show up in the right gap put on their best performance all year? I don't think it was coaching or amped-up psychological effects. I think it was literally someone controlling their movements at all times. That's all I have.
December 11th, 2018 at 7:45 PM ^
You're wrong. You really think Harbaugh doesn't take the game seriously enough? Think about the absurdity of the statement. If only Harbaugh had the intensity of all of us tough guys on the internet who sit on our couches and yell.
December 11th, 2018 at 9:08 PM ^
It isn't as much intensity is at is time devoted to it. Haskins said he watched film every week on UM. We have heard nothing like that from UM players.
December 12th, 2018 at 1:25 AM ^
JH told Angeliqe the week before the game he does something every practice for tOSU.
December 12th, 2018 at 6:19 PM ^
Sorry. I am not convinced. I am not saying Harbaugh is lying, it's just that there is a difference between doing something and making beating Ohio State (and MSU) the focal point of your season.
Bo ALWAYS wanted to win the Big 10. So obviously he prepared for OSU as a NECESSARY win to win the Big 10 (as it almost always was).
You can even see it in the season. OSU played much better in The Game than they did the rest of their season. Close to vice versa for Michigan.
December 11th, 2018 at 9:49 PM ^
No way, I don't buy this. I watched the game. Our players were out-matched at nearly every position especially our coverage guys against their plethora of 5-star WRs. Parris Campbell could not be stopped. We had lost ground in the recruiting battle for sure.
Next year may get better, but that is because OSU will be decimated by graduation and early exit guys like Haskins. The coaching turnover is our chance to gain players and beat their ass ... finally.
December 11th, 2018 at 4:47 PM ^
I really wish the team would stop choosing to lose to OSU and MSU
December 11th, 2018 at 4:48 PM ^
Hoke put emphasis on that game and you could tell.. Even tho we weren’t as talented as them we always played them extremely tough ... Under Harbaugh we have the talent but I don’t know what’s the problem
December 12th, 2018 at 6:22 PM ^
^^^^THIS!! Why did Michigan under Hoke play so well against OSU??
December 11th, 2018 at 4:49 PM ^
Sigh! How sad. Too much more of this and fans might just stop caring. It's Michigan for God's sake.
December 11th, 2018 at 4:53 PM ^
I have no idea how people can observe a lack of focus on a rivalry game. It feels very much like a post hoc analysis based on the final score.
December 11th, 2018 at 4:55 PM ^
yes, it’s ridiculous.
December 11th, 2018 at 6:37 PM ^
I dont think people are saying that the players were lacking in "focus" as in mental focus - but it certainly seemed like Ohio State spent a lot more time and attention preparing for Michigan, while we were content to simply prepare "one game at a time."
Frankly, I dont know how anyone could watch that game and not come away with the impression that Ohio State was significantly better prepared for what Michigan wanted to do, than Michigan was.
I would bet that Ohio State spent a large share of the week of the Maryland game preparing for Michigan. I would also bet that they dedicated time throughout the season preparing for The Game.
It certainly did not look like we matched that level of preparation on our end. When we rolled out vanilla offenses at Rutgers and Indiana we all kept assuming that Harbaugh was holding back plays to unveil upon Ohio State. Nope. No plays were being held back. We had nothing new saved or prepped for Ohio State. We showed up in Columbus with basically the same gameplan we ran all season.
December 11th, 2018 at 8:39 PM ^
But the previous two years, Michigan looked like they were far more prepared for what the opponent was doing. We just had Speight and OKorn gifting OSU points. If we had average Qb play on either game, we win ImO. Team was less prepared this year, obviously, but that doesn’t mean that Harbaugh and Co treat this rivalry lightly.
December 11th, 2018 at 4:54 PM ^
I didn’t see a customized gameplan for OSU so...
December 11th, 2018 at 4:55 PM ^
I love Charles but this is ridiculous. The players know how big the game is. Hell, to add to how big the game was this year, it was essentially a playoff game too. Saying they hate OSU 6 weeks before playing OSU doesn’t help them beat OSU. Jimmy’s, Joe’s, and X/O’s do.
December 11th, 2018 at 10:08 PM ^
First we need better cover guys ... we got torched by OSU's elite WR speed. Totally torched. That should be priority #1. Need better coverage guys at safety and nickel.
The jet sweep by Parris Campbell was embarrassing. If we ever make the CFP, elite teams will torch us with speed unless we recruit those guys.
December 11th, 2018 at 5:01 PM ^
I would say that if the spot were different, would we be saying they don't have enough emphasis on the game? The biggest difference to me has been their players make plays and ours don't. I don't have any stats in front of me, but their best players play their best game against us. They don't drop interceptions. Their backups fill in and get the job done. They don't drop TD passes. Their DE's get to our QB's and ours don't. As Charles once said, big time players make big time plays. Our best players don't stand out, in that game.
December 11th, 2018 at 5:05 PM ^
There's no doubt that OSU has recruited better than Michigan for forever now, but people who say the losses are due to talent differences and "Michigan's lack of speed" are foolish. All we've heard for the last couple of years is "how fast" Michigan's defense is. Sure, there's a couple guys here and there who may not be incredibly quick, but when you have guys like Bush, Gary, Long and Hill you have plenty of speed. And, I don't recall people saying Michigan had a lack of talent after either the 2016 and 2017 games...that was all about not having a good qb. Did OSU all of a sudden get ridiculously more talented than Michigan in just one season? Don't think so.
December 11th, 2018 at 5:15 PM ^
As long as they continue to recruit at a significantly higher level than us, play a more forgiving style of offense, have significantly lower entrance requirements and significantly fewer real student athletes. . . they may continue to beat us most of the time.
As a Michigan grad who loves football and has followed the team from childhood, I am willing to live with that. Michigan's the superior institution; it's a sacrifice worth making and one that OSU can't emulate.
December 11th, 2018 at 6:09 PM ^
The football players are all working with the same entrance requirements. Please stop with this narrative.
December 11th, 2018 at 8:33 PM ^
You are 100% right, they players all have the same requirements. Just below there is a great post asking what made Tressel different. Heck, he had never coached at this level and called his shot 310 days later. It’s opposite but similar the Cooper years. He treated the rivalry the same as any other game and lost his job as a result.
Most watched the MD game and saw uninspired play from players thinking tOSU was entitled to win just by showing up. MD played like they truly wanted to win AND had a game plan to attack the peremiter with speed. They executed it well and should have won. To think over preparation and “will” have no outcome on a game is just wrong.
December 11th, 2018 at 8:39 PM ^
Yes--OSU players face the same nominal standards. I guarantee that our players spend a lot more time playing school; if you haven't checked out comparative grades and grad rates you might want to. All told we must work much harder to obtain good raw talent.
Or you can feel free to bitch; that's obviously what threads like this are for. Harbaugh's a great coach and every now and then we're going to beat them. He operates with the blessing and appreciation of his bosses and anyone who gives this much real thought. The idea that they didn't want to win or work hard at it. . .
December 11th, 2018 at 5:15 PM ^
You have to remember these kids have never seen Michigan beat OSU or a national championship level football team from Michigan yet. You can't just make up a rivalry and tell the kids to buy in, it hasn't been a rivalry in over a decade.
December 11th, 2018 at 6:25 PM ^
What exactly did Tressel do then? OSU hadn't won it all since 1968 when he came in and hadnt beaten us in Ann Arbor in 14 years.
December 11th, 2018 at 5:18 PM ^
I think actually the problem these days is that the media has stolen the narrative. The questions they ask are so obviously agenda driven so they can write a predetermined storyline that the players and coaches have to answer with as vanilla a response as they can in order to not feed that narrative. This year’s team was the least PC one I can remember, and still it’s not good enough. Behind closed doors I’m sure the team understands very well the importance of the game. I couldn’t care less if they talk at all about it in public.
December 11th, 2018 at 5:29 PM ^
Just vocalizing the importance of this game isn't going to be enough here. I honestly think we don't go above and beyond to prepare for this game. Every day after practice, MSU sets aside some time to do something extra to prepare for the Michigan game. Maybe Michigan does the same but I haven't heard of it.
We need coaches to watch Ohio State film every single week during the season and the players need to do something extra during practice every day to prepare for this game. Then, maybe then, we'll have a chance at winning this game
December 11th, 2018 at 10:34 PM ^
how do you, or how does anyone, know what the coaches do to prepare or how much film they watch. Why do so many people assume they have the answer flowing from their fingers to the keyboard and that somehow the coaching staff doesn't know this magic ingredient.
Football doesn't work that way, life doesn't work that way
December 11th, 2018 at 5:36 PM ^
December 11th, 2018 at 8:48 PM ^
With the exception of Bill Davis who was hired because he was the best man at Urban’s wedding and Smith...because of the relationship with Bruce. Aside from that I’d agree completely.
December 11th, 2018 at 10:37 PM ^
I like you Hatter but I don't agree that OSU wanted it more or worked harder.
if you have some evidence from Michigan players or coaches to the contrary, that would be instructive. I just can't go along with that meme that "they wanted it more."
There are reasons for the failure and I trust the coaching staff is examining them.
December 11th, 2018 at 6:07 PM ^
Why do we need to see or hear it?
Imagine if from this years spring game on, all the football players and coaches brought up The Game. We, the fans. would love it, but then this years game still happens. We, the fans, would then say, "You talked about this game since the spring game and this is what we get?!" "Rabble, rabble rabble"
In the '90s, did Michigan do or say anything different in the press?
December 11th, 2018 at 6:19 PM ^
Players get up from momentum. We run into a stacked box over & over. That doesn't build momentum.
We don't play a D that creates turnovers - ie. zone mixed in or try to punch the ball out of a runners hands. No momentum there either.
We let a guy shoot the A gap & block & punt & house it. Momentum killer obv.
Players see us huddling in 4th Qtr down multiple scores. They know that isn't a recipe for a comeback.
We take Peters out when he just threw a nice TD pass. Players knew the coaches quit at that point. No reason for them to even try with 7 min to go or whatever.
December 11th, 2018 at 6:25 PM ^
We outcoached them the previous two years but in one we had a broken Speight (who wasn't that good to begin with) and OSU refs. Last year we had the worst qb in the history of d1 football and the worst ol in the history of Mich football.
This year I think we got lulled to sleep by OSU playng like shit against everyone so we didn't make any defensive changes and we got exposed by an NFL QB throwing to NFL receivers while our two NFL DEs were so injured they were complete non-factors.
The intensity is fine, the coaches are fine, beating one of the most successful college coaches ever is hard, lucky us he was at our rival with better recruits.
December 11th, 2018 at 6:58 PM ^
In the first 4 years I feel confident Harbaugh has passed MSU. I think we are on a future 3 or 4-1 ratio against them. I honestly thank itll be another 2-3 years before we are equal to OSU. OSU is Bama light and we are basically Les Miles' LSU. That can change but its going to take some superior recruiting. This isn't Tressel's OSU where he would play down to lesser competition. I saw that Saban had 2 ten+ win seasons his first decade coaching. Lets keep that in mind as Harbaugh keeps growing and UM football along with it. We need some superior recruiting classes where we are neck and neck with OSU in the top 3-4.
December 11th, 2018 at 7:02 PM ^
I agree wholeheartedly. 0-10 and then beating OSU is a good season. Going 10-1 and losing to OSU feels no different than going any other record, just look at 90% of fans reaction after The Game.
December 11th, 2018 at 10:39 PM ^
Totally irrational reaction.
Let me try and explain.
See, if we go 0 and 10.... then no way do we....
ah forget it if that's what you believe I'm wasting my time
December 11th, 2018 at 7:06 PM ^
While we have closed the gap in talent since Harbaugh has got here, we still are behind osu.
osu had a great game plan (make our slower guys cover their fast guys) and they executed it to perfection.
Putting talent level and coaching aside. I do believe Harbaugh needs to publicly act like he gives a shit.
December 11th, 2018 at 7:08 PM ^
There is plenty of emphasis. To say otherwise is crazy. We had an opportunity to win the game two of the last 3 years. And this year we had the talent to win. But crappy playcalling, JOK and the refs. Call it excuses or whatever. None of it matters. We just have to win the freaking game. 2019 will be the year!!! (unless it isn't).
GO BLUE!!
December 11th, 2018 at 8:43 PM ^
Well lets just hope it's a close game/win and not a blow out embarrassment to a team that barely beat Maryland the week before.
December 11th, 2018 at 7:10 PM ^
Before posting a dumbass post like this again ask yourself if you think there will be another coach that will take this game more seriously.
The guy who grew up on the sidelines of the 10 year war, who came back to be an All American and play QB for Bo Schembechler in the rivalry and is known for being an over competitive lunatic in every aspect of his life is the guy not giving it enough attention?
While you get upset sitting in your living room think about what he has probably done over the course of his life in this rivalry and you think it's smart to question his commitment?
You may disagree with his methods but don't disagree with the commitment.
It's ridiculous.
