Athletic Ranks the 40 College Football Hires in the Big Ten since 1999
Thought this could lead to some interesting debate on a quiet board day.
The top 10 is:
1. Meyer
2. Tressel
3. Dantonio
4. Ferentz
5. Fitzgerald
6. Franklin
7. Chryst
8. Day
9. Bielema
10. Harbaugh
Hard to argue with that unfortunately, even though the top 3 are for rivals. Has Chryst actually won anything though? He hasn't won the conference. I think he's only won their weak division once or twice? I think NW has won it more since he's been there.
Edit: Chryst has won 3 division titles in his 6 years there. Still don't see that as all that impressive in the West when you took over a program that has been the same program for 30 years now and your toughest competition is NW.
In addition to the 3 B1G West division titles you mentioned, Wisconsin under Chryst is 5-1 in Bowl Games with a 2-1 record in NY6 Bowl Games; so he has "actually won something". One could make the argument that he has produced better results than both Franklin (#6 on the list) and Fitzgerald (#5 on the list).
Edit: Also, at this point in time, is the B1G West division really all that much weaker than the East division? With Penn State and Michigan being just good enough to downright bad the past two or three seasons and the emergence of Northwestern and Minnesota as better programs, I think the parity between the divisions is greatly increased.
April 11th, 2021 at 11:05 AM ^
Chryst is underrated - underappreciated
April 11th, 2021 at 12:50 PM ^
Since 2008, UM is 5-18 against OSU & PSU.
Since 2008, UW is 2-15 against OSU & PSU.
Since 2011, UM is 5-12 against OSU & PSU.
Since 2011, UW is 1-12 against OSU & PSU.
Since 2015, UM is 3-8 against OSU & PSU.
Since 2015, UW is 0-6 against OSU & PSU.
Any & all of UW’s success the past however many number of years is 1,000% attributable to being in the West.
Michigan and Penn state have consistently been better than pretty much anyone in the west outside of Wisconsin and we also have OSU in our division. The answer is obviously that winning in the East is much, much tougher as top-to-bottom we are better. MSU was consistently better than anyone in the west up until 2 years ago, so taking a 3 year sample size is just silly. Everyone thought Minnesota was going to run over us because they had a good year in Fleck’s 1st year and then we curb stomped them with a horrible team. NW had a B10 record of 1-8 two seasons ago.
With Penn State and Michigan being just good enough to downright bad the past two or three seasons and the emergence of Northwestern and Minnesota as better programs, I think the parity between the divisions is greatly increased.
Do you honestly think Northwestern and Minnesota would be contending for East Division titles?
Minnesota had one good year and it came from having an incredibly easy schedule
April 11th, 2021 at 11:46 PM ^
They also choked bigger than any choke job anyone has ever choked away. They quite literally only had to not lose 2 out of their last 3 games and that is exactly what they did. They had Wisconsin at home to clinch the division and they lost by 3 scores. Now imagine if they had to do that every year against OSU
I'd personally argue for Tressel at #1.
OSU had 3 Top 10 teams in the 1995-1998 era, but they also had 5 4+ loss teams in the 11 years prior. They weren't yet "THE Ohio State University Buckeyes, the B1G's dominant team."
Until, for better or worse, Tressel got them there.
Tressel certainly elevated the program, but Meyer was 57-5 in Big Ten games in his 7 years there (including the conference title games). That record is absolutely mind-boggling.
I think the Top 3 are right with Fitz being a very close 4th for me behind Dantonio.
1. Meyer
2. Tressel
3. Day
4. Dantonio
5. Ferentz
6. Fitzgerald
7. Chryst
8. Franklin
9. Bielema
10. Harbaugh/Allen
Honorable mention: Kevin Wilson and we’ll see what happens with Fleck over the next 5 years. Depending on what happens with IU and Michigan over the next 3 years you could have Allen or Harbaugh at 10.
Day is probably overrated on your list. Yes, he’s winning but all he’s really done up to this point is continue what Urban has built, and he’s had Urban working in the shadows up until this point in his head coaching career too.
I need to see more of Day before I put him that high. OSU could have hired just about anybody to do what Day has done, so it’s not all that impressive when compared to the jobs some of the other coaches have had to do. Still a really good coach (unfortunately) but I can’t put him top 3 yet.
Two years in he hasn't lost a regular season or conference title game. Small sample size but so far he's elevated OSU beyond where Meyer left it. OSU is basically untouchable by anybody that's not a top 5 team right now.
Well it’s a little less than 2 years with the missed CoVid games, and again, he’s had Urban working in the shadows behind him. He’s been a major part of that program the past two years.
Day is doing what he’s doing with Urban’s recruits, Urban working behind the scenes, and a transfer QB. He inherited a program that hadn’t finished ranked lower than 6th since 2013, and hasn’t had more than 2 losses since 2011. He’s not doing anything Urban hasn’t done there, and he’s not doing anything 95% of college coaches wouldn’t be doing with the same situation.
I’m not saying he’s not a good coach or won’t eventually be higher on that list. But I need more than a year and a half of status quo OSU before I rank the guy above coaches like Dantonio and Fitzgerald that had built their programs from the ground up and turned them into competitive teams, and even dominant teams in some years for Dantonio. Taking MSU and winning multiple big ten titles and going to the CFP after the JLSmith years is much more impressive than anything Day has done in a year and a half.
He’s a good coach but #3 at this stage is simply too high.
I agree that it's too early to grade Day, especially comparing to Tressel and Meyer. However, this misconception that Meyer was "working behind the scenes" is hilarious. The dude ran Fox Big Noon Kickoff, which is a full time job in itself. Did he and Day communicate? Yes, I am positive that they stayed in touch. But to make it seem like Meyer was running the show while Day got the title on game days is inaccurate. Meyer spent very minimal time on campus once he took the job with Fox.
I think it's tough to evaluate Day so far. He inherited an absolutely loaded roster (even by OSU standards) including a stud QB transfer. Then, while he's avoided the kind of midseason brain farts that Meyer's teams would have, he lost a very winnable game to Clemson in '19 and then got trucked by Bama in '20. I feel like Meyer may have done better in the postseason those years.
Exactly. There’s just not enough data there for Day to put him ahead of proven program builders from “lesser” schools.
If he can continue to do it with his own recruits and with Urban completely out of the picture, I can see it. But right now is just too early
No doubt he inherited a loaded roster. However, Fields came because of Day and that happened after Urban stepped down. Day has also managed to somehow recruit better than Meyer so far. There is still a chance he is Larry Coker.
To ponder: Switch the result of a single game (the only time Franklin has beaten OSU). How does that affect this list? Switch the result of one referee's decision (the infamous spot in 2016). Same question.
April 10th, 2021 at 10:45 PM ^
Maybe I’m lying to myself, but I believe if the spot would’ve been marked short, Harbaugh is on a different trajectory. They would’ve won the conference and been a playoff team. Recruiting probably improves and Harbaugh becomes the Michigan football savior that we all expected him to be. Instead he’s sitting on a seat that’s already warm with a rebuilding year coming this season.
April 10th, 2021 at 11:41 PM ^
We still signed a top five recruiting class after that 2016 season. What would prevent the future player mismanagement and transfers from happening just from that game?
There's been a lot said about "the spot." and different trajectory in all that. Let's first remember that it never should have come to that as the offensive mismanagement and game calls have been overlooked to blame it on the refs or Urban Meyer voodoo or whatever else.
More importantly, after a rougher 2017 season, Michigan opened 2018 with a loss to ND. They proceeded to win 10 games in a row, dominating most of them to position themselves with a chance to win the East, the B1G, and go to the CFP. They were favored at Ohio State (a team that needed OT the week before to beat a 5-7 Maryland team and had looked mediocre most of the season--they were 10-1 and ranked #10). We all know the rest.
"The spot" didn't change any trajectory. The QB problems were still going to be there in 2017 and 2018 was a great season until it fell off a cliff at the end. That's the most important game played in Harbaugh's tenure thus far.
April 11th, 2021 at 11:36 AM ^
Good words, DoubleB. The Spot is a Red Herring, we gave the game away plenty of times before that with the play calling and worst of all right before The Spot IIRC we had them dead to rights way behind the LOS but could not tackle them for a huge loss, which would have put them in a position to have to try a long FG to tie it up.
Everyone that makes a big deal out of Franklin’s “lucky” win against OSU fails to recall they lost to OSU the next two years by a combined two points.
If anything I’d say it was bad luck they were an aggregate +2 in points against OSU over a 3 year stretch and went 1-2 in those games. What’s Penn State’s trajectory if they win 2 or all of those games?
Top 5 B1G coach hires
- Danny Hope
- Mike Debord
- Scott Frosts moms pancakes
- Mork Dan7onios stealing 5 million dollars from that trash athletic dept and then running away
- Rich Rod
- Tom Izzos dirty diaper
- Brady Hoke
- Evan the guy who cleans coolers in Columbus
- What are we talking about
- RIP DMX
It’s nice to see JH in a top 10 list.
April 10th, 2021 at 10:59 PM ^
He's definitely made top-10 most overrated.
Harbaugh in the top ten is debatable - especially considering his inability to deliver stability and his largely downward trajectory since OSU in 2016, with 2020 being a total shitshow of shitshows.
Bill O’Brien could be there for his very solid two year stint under pretty rough conditions.
Jerry Kill could be there for at least righting the ship at Minnesota and setting a good foundation for what they have done since.
PJ Fleck would have been on this list had last year not happened. Even so, he gave Minnesota their best season in forever.
Greg Schiano would certainly count if you include all Rutgers seasons prior to the Big Ten. Hate on him all you want, but he truly rebuilt their program into respectability and might do it again.
Tom Allen could be on this list when you consider he is finding success at Indiana.
April 10th, 2021 at 10:26 PM ^
I'm really annoyed with the Tom Allen / PJ Fleck admiration over Harbaugh. Yes, Tom had a good year and yes, Fleck had a good year prior, but if you take the collective body of work compared to what Harbaugh has done, I would still take Harbaugh...
The problem is Ohio State. Even when we have decent to good years, OSU just shuts it down. The blow from losing to OSU has unfortunately lingered to the bowl games. Shit, this site alone doesn't even analyze the OSU games they are so bad.
Sprinkle in a loss here and there to MSU and everyone is sour in the face.
April 10th, 2021 at 10:43 PM ^
The problem isn’t Ohio state. Michigan will be lucky to ever win again at the level OSU is on. I don’t even give a shit about that game every year because that’s an auto loss. Harbaugh was brought in to at least compete against them, but he’s failed at that largely.
Now, though, Harbaugh can’t even compete with Wisconsin, Indiana is arguably better, and MSU just won with a 1st year coach and a talent depleted roster. Penn State is probably in a better position now as well. Because the floor is higher at other programs, Harbaugh’s decent to good years you mention are becoming more scarce as well.
And if Harbaugh can’t get his players up for a bowl game 4-5 weeks after OSU, that’s even more indicative of his failure.
Harbaugh isn’t “just not an elite coach,” he’s not even a good coach anymore. He’s a replacement level coach on a downswing and hopefully he’s gone after what will probably be another mediocre season.
Shit. Now I’m sad for this program. Screw football. We’re a softball school now.
April 10th, 2021 at 11:36 PM ^
People act like Harbaugh's teams with OSU have been the 90s Florida State teams where they lost to Miami every year but won every other game...I don't get it.
We have lost the last two games to Wisconsin 35-14 and 49-11, my god.
April 10th, 2021 at 11:44 PM ^
Well, you all act as if Hoke, RR, and Carr were leagues better. And to my point, it's not as if Fleck and Allen are burning it up in the big.
You proved my point. It is always about OSU. Harbaugh loses to Indiana once and now Allen is a god to you...
April 11th, 2021 at 12:07 AM ^
Carr was much better than Harbaugh . It’s not even close. He may have been bested by Tressel, but those games were all close. Carr won 5 Big Ten championships in 13 years and a National Title as well. Carr’s worst team went 7-5. Harbaugh can still turn it around, but it’s looking dim.
April 11th, 2021 at 11:16 AM ^
To be fair, when looking at Carr’s big ten titles, only one of those came in a season where Michigan lost less than 3 games. In Carr’s era, going 9-3 still had you right in the mix for a conference title. That’s obviously not the case anymore.
It’s hard to compare the two eras because they ARE vastly different and the college football landscape has changed so much.
April 11th, 2021 at 11:36 AM ^
Carr's teams may have lost three games a lot but most of times that third game was a bowl game or non conference game, neither of those would prevent winning the Big Ten today.
1997: 12-0, 8-0 Big Ten
1998: 10-3, 7-1 Big Ten
2000: 9-3, 6-2 Big Ten (wouldnt happen today, fair enough)
2003: 10-3, 7-1 Big Ten
2004: 10-3, 7-1 Big Ten
And Harbaugh has a season with a single conference loss that didn’t result in a B1G title. Harbaugh has also had to play an additional conference game each year that Carr didn’t have to.
You’re turning this into a defense of Harbaugh when all I’m really saying is that Carr isn’t nearly as good as people seem to remember. You can take a look at his yearly records and see they’re eerily similar to Harbaugh. But one guy is praised for winning the B1G when it was easier to win while Harbaugh is criticized as some bad coach.
The fact that you could be a 3 loss team (whether those 3 losses occurred in bowls or non-con is pretty irrelevant. 2 of Harbaugh’s 3 loss seasons included a bowl loss) and win conference titles is simply not realistic. Simply looking at it from a program quality standpoint, not just a conference record standpoint.
Carr's teams may have had similar records, but look again at their records against the top ten, 19-8 vs 2-12. Carr's teams would lose an inexplicable game here and there but they played their best football in the biggest games, Harbaugh's teams are the opposite. Lloyd was 9-2 vs Penn State and 7-2 vs Wisconsin.
Again, you’re comparing different eras. During Carr’s era, Penn State was consistently a 3-4 loss team. Only 2 years with less than 3 losses. They even went through a 5 year stretch where they were .500 or worse 4 of those years. Not the same Penn State we see today.
Carr era Wisconsin isn’t Wisconsin of today either. Excluding the CoVid shortened year, Wisconsin has failed to reach 10 wins just once since Harbaugh arrived. During Carr’s time, they had quite a few 4+ loss seasons and some losing seasons as well. Let’s not act like Carr went 7-2 against the types of Wisconsin teams Harbaugh has faced. They’re a better program than they were then, similar to how Ohio State is on a different level than they were back then. You can talk about his wins over OSU all you want, but it’s not like Harbaugh has had the opportunity to go against 7-5/8-4 OSU squads like some of our highly regarded predecessors.
Personally, a loss is a loss. Carr isn’t a better coach for performing better against top 10 teams but having some duds against lesser competition. He still lost. Do you feel better losing to Purdue than you do losing to Wisconsin? Did losing to Penn State hurt more than losing to Appalachian State? Not really sure your argument there. If anything, losing to better teams is a feather in Harbaugh’s cap, not Carr’s.
Carr was able to get a few titles when the top of the B1G was weaker than it is now. Teams like OSU, Wisconsin and Penn State were a step below where they are now. But all in all, Carr and Harbaugh are the same. Just one coach is seemingly loathed by a vocal portion of the fan base while the other is celebrated.
April 11th, 2021 at 11:46 PM ^
"A loss is a loss"? That is not and never will be true and is exactly why Harbaugh isn't on better terms with the fanbase. Does a win against Rutgers do the same for you as a win against OSU or Wisconsin?
1. You're wrong that Wisconsin back then wasn't Wisconsin of now. They won the Big Ten in 1993, 1998, and 1999. Michigan gave Wisconsin their only loss of the season in 1998 and 2006 and only one of two in 1999.
2. Penn State may have been a step below, but Michigan gave them their only loss of the season in 2005. They also went into Happy Valley in 1997 and 1999 and won both times as an underdog.
3. Moeller beat a 9-0-1 OSU team and Carr beat 11-0, 10-0, 9-1 Cooper teams and a 10-1 Tressel team. Cooper was a lousy ass gameday coach but you're undervaluing how talented those OSU teams were. Carr was also a better gameday coach than Harbaugh as well as a better recruiter.
April 11th, 2021 at 12:39 AM ^
Carr: 19-8 against top ten teams
Harbaugh: 2-12
Yes, Carr was leagues better. Harbaugh's measuring stick was never to be better than two of Michigan's worst coaches ever.
"Lost to Indiana once". Yeah, first Michigan coach to lose to Indiana in 30 years and again you're absolving Harbaugh. Tell me again how it's "all about OSU".
No, I dont think Allen or Fleck are "gods", not once did I ever say that nor has anyone else on here. They both are building something at programs that haven't won the Big Ten in nearly 60 years, so that can't be denied.
April 11th, 2021 at 10:01 AM ^
The guys delusional. Don’t mind him.
April 12th, 2021 at 12:44 PM ^
I couldn't agree more! Carr wasn't a great coach, but he wasn't terrible against top teams, against OSU, MSU or in bowl games.
Harbaugh is great against conference bottom feeders such as: Maryland, Rutgers, Purdue, Nowrthwestern, Minnesota, Nebraska, Illinois, IU and most non-conference games. But he should do well against them. But a couple of these teams he has great records against have been very close in a lot of games; Northwestern and IU, with 2 of the IU games going to OT and of course one loss. The only teams that have truly been dominated most of the time have been Rutgers and Maryland under Harbaugh.
In 2015 is this what we expected? To be good against the bottom B1G teams, only around .500 against MSU, PSU, UW, ND and Iowa? Did we expect to be 0-5 against OSU? True, they are a rolling machine now but they hadn't yet attained that when Harbaugh arrived.
In 2021 the state of the team is that the defense will be terrible and the offense not much better with player after player hitting the transfer portal. Almost an entirely new coaching staff to go along with all that and it seems Harbaugh is in position of what most new coaches are and yet he will be in year 7, a time when about all of us expected Michigan to be a juggernaut. Instead we are a has-been, a laughingstock and a school for any sport BUT football.
I first found forums such as MGOBlog after the Appy State debacle and I was ready for a new coach and to run Carr out of town. But fast forward to 2021 and I yearn for the days of Coach Carr. What a wasted decade and likely to be 2 decades.
April 11th, 2021 at 11:18 AM ^
Yes, it is always about OSU. Always has been. Yet Harbaugh can't beat them. For all intents and purposes, Harbaugh was brought in to level the rivalry but if anything it's gotten even more lopsided. Hell, he couldn't beat a tire fire MSU team with a first year head coach. So forget about catching up with OSU. We are back at the level of being worried about MSU, and Indiana, and ...Rutgers(!).
Harbaugh has lost his touch and I don't see any indications of it coming back. But I hope it does, I really do!
April 11th, 2021 at 11:11 AM ^
...and at Wisconsin this year is likely to be just as ugly. Don't care who our starting QB is, at Camp Randall is not an easy place to play (I am sure it will be at least half full)
April 11th, 2021 at 11:47 AM ^
I just have a feeling this season will be a disaster for us. We can very realistically lose to Rutgers and Nebraska this year, everyone will be eager to kick our corpse. By the end of the season the players will be ready to bail and portal-watching. 3-9 does not sound remotely unrealistic.
I’m just hoping for either a great season or a disaster of a season. Great season is good and makes us all enjoy fall a bit more. Disaster of a season means a new coach.
Its that middle ground I’m worried about. That’s where coaches can survive too long.
April 10th, 2021 at 10:02 PM ^
I’d put Schiano at 10. He’s building a garbage RU program to decency. RR took a talented Hoke team to a talented Harbaugh team.
Interwsting question, How would this year’s M team be different with Hoke vs Harbaugh?
April 10th, 2021 at 10:54 PM ^
Vewy interwysting!
Elmer Fudd.
April 11th, 2021 at 11:23 AM ^
We'd be worse with Hoke than Harbaugh. I am not sure about a lot of things but I am pretty certain that Harbaugh is a better coach than Hoke, which isn't saying much I guess.
RR came after Hoke. Not sure how he could do what you said unless I'm missing something, which I probably am.