Anyone Else Think the Hoke Push is a Bit Much?
I don't know about everyone else, but the whole thing (drama?) seems a bit oily, and more than a bit excessive:
Former players, and one former headcoach (psh-"Michigan Men"), coming out of the woodwork in droves to profess their man-love for BH. (Not to put too fine a point on Desmond's words, but if no one man is greater than the team, then why were all these individual, mythical "Michigan Men" placing themselves above the team with their silence, rather than their out-and-out support? Isn't that what a "team" is supposed to do? Be brothers in arms, united we stand?)
How many times does the Athletic Department need to update the FB page, and ask, gushingly, what our favorite pic/PC moment/BH hairstyle was? (Hokeamania, anyone?)
The interesting timing and placement of all the Detroit print media "bugs in ears" regarding BH's fitness to be a fine Michigan football coach, in the week prior to his actual announced hiring?
DB's mumbling about not breaking contracts with regard to the adidas contract and the players chanting "NIKE" seemed a bit contrived and more than a little BS.
And finally, unusual influx of new MGoBlog members, seemingly most with under 200 mgopoints, who are now the standard bearers for the defense of BH, his record, his opportunity, and the patience and time needed for him to do the job.
There's a real, "sell the sizzle, not the steak" odor to this whole "process" and it's one that never existed previously, to my knowledge. And I would have preferred it to stay that way.
All that said, yes, come mid-August, it will be "All in for Michigan" and I'll be there. Disappointment in all these role models and what they proclaimed will remain, but my support for my team will always be there.
And please, save the tinfoil snark. I know how this can read to the 2011 vintage Kool-Aid drinker, so save your gif's and save your Kool-Aid recipe. If needed for my maize-n-blue Jell-O shots, I'll ask.
January 14th, 2011 at 2:38 PM ^
Seriously, do you work anywhere they do any level of PR or consumer marketing? Do you realize that any strategy would incorporate any and all online channels, especially one that is this focused on the topic at hand so intensely and with so many passionate users .
Really, they would be crazy not to.
Whether you think it right or wrong, it is nothing if not smart.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:33 AM ^
I realize it's 2011 and there are more ways to get your "brand" and your "message" out there but I totally agree. The full-court press on the positive Hoke spin is amazing. And, yes, I have noticed a ton of new users, all with the pro-Hoke message. Not that there's anything wrong with that but it has been noticeable. DB's corporate background is very evident.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:06 AM ^
There is a new coach and many fans, players, and even media members are excited about that. Therefore you get a lot of talk about the new coach, and a ll the Fluff that goes along with it.
I would without question rather have excessive positive coach coverage we've had than the excessive negative coach coverage we've had in the past. (I'm blaming the media/fans there, not RR.)
January 14th, 2011 at 10:06 AM ^
Hoke is the shiny new toy
He still has the new car smell
If you can't be excited about a coach in the first week then you may never be ( I know if he wins everyone will love him, but after these past 3 years its nice to have a little positive feelings)
No one is collecting money yet for his 30 foot statue on South U., but at least you can believe him when he says he wants the team to be more physical and not get pushed around
January 14th, 2011 at 11:51 AM ^
FWIW, I hate your avatar. I was wondering what that smell was though, I thought it was fishy but I guess it's that new car smell.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:08 AM ^
Not sure how the Adidas/Nike thing fits in with your rant; that was signed in mid-2007 while LC was still the head coach.
I'm one of those excited about Hoke, but I see your point. The most interesting thing to me isn't the media thing (that's predictable), it's the players. The players' support of RR was notable by its absence, and now it's notable by its presence. Why did so few players publicly support RR? The tin-foil theory is that Carr orchestrated it, but I'm not sure that's plausible. I'd really love to know what went on there.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:14 AM ^
I dislike the silence of former players during RR tenur as well. But a fair amount of the players i've seen come out and support Hoke and say positive things about him are players that played on the team while he was here, were recurited by him, or have some type of relationship. Not all, but most.
So, in that sense, I get how you can have a lot more players talking and saying positive things this time around than when RR was here. I'm in the camp that thinks it doesn't matter and they should have supported any coach the same way no matter what. But I can see why players are more vocal, and I really think it's extremely tin-foily to believe Carr orchestrated it. Sad if anyone really does think that's the case.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:17 AM ^
I was just linking that it was former players, AND one former HC, who all were eerily silent for 3 years, and now in one week, can't shut 'em up.
Just a little too well orchestrated for my tastes, not very natural or organic.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:19 AM ^
Just seems like you're reading way to much into the situation when there are many logical explinations avaliable.
Just my two cents :)
January 14th, 2011 at 10:27 AM ^
but isn't that what the internets and the off-season are for?
January 14th, 2011 at 10:25 AM ^
Don't you think it makes sense to get these former players involved once a new coach is hired? We are hoping to start a new era here in Michigan football so to have all the support is a benefit to the program. I don't think it was DB's fault that RR didn't have the support of the former players, but it was Bill Martin's. He was the one who made the hire and he should have brought everyone on board much better than he did. It was too late for Brandon to be able to circle the wagons because alot of the damage had already been done and there was really no changing the opinions of former players and coaches unless we miraculously won the Big Ten or beat Ohio State this year. IMO.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:33 AM ^
and I'd considered that a little venom needed to be aimed at Bill Martin for some of the spinning we're seeing today, that could have been oh-so-useful back three years ago.
Thanks for the positive inputs!
January 14th, 2011 at 10:17 AM ^
Really? Is it really a mystery? A guy who none of them knew is hired basically as a repudiation of the carr/bo tradition, promptly fires everyone on staff - you know, the coaches that they played for - brings a bunch of baggage, makes some pretty monumental changes, and then goes 3-9. And you wonder why he got less support than a guy who they knew, liked, and played for who promised to undo some of those changes and bring a lot of things back to the way they knew them?
Sounds like a conspiracy for sure.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:08 AM ^
Would your rather be going through Freep jihad the sequel? It's a long time until meaningful football is played again. Enjoy the peace. It's been a long time coming.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:09 AM ^
This whole process was an unmitigated disaster and DB is doing damage control now. He is trying to brainwash the fanbase into believing that BH was the man from the beginning and he is way more qualified than any of us know.
The condescending nature of DB is really starting to get on my nerves a bit. The way he always feels th eneed to point out that "I have far more information and knowledge to base my decisions on than you little people" is growing old.
He probably did have a little more information re: RR and the program when he was making tha decision (I don't think it was a great deal more, but probably more). But seriously, how much more information did he have on BH, JH, LM, JG, GP etc when it came to the coaching search and subsequent hire? Not very much if any.
I said long ago when so many posters on this blog were drooling over DB and singing about all the faith and love they had for the guy that he hadn't done anything to that point to base an opinion. Well he has now and IMHE I am not overly excited about the prospect of DB being the AD at The University of Michigan.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:17 AM ^
"But seriously, how much more information did he have on BH, JH, LM, JG, GP etc when it came to the coaching search and subsequent hire? Not very much if any."
You're kidding me right? You really think the AD, someone who has access to actually talk and interview these people, talk and interview people who have worked with them and know them... has "Not very much if any" more information on them than us? Really?
I'm intersted to hear the logic behind that one to be honest.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:57 AM ^
Listen, we even know what kind of toilet JH has at his home in Stanford so I stand by what I said. What do you think the AD has that is RELEVANT to a coaching hire that the public doesn't?
With the immergence of the internet there isn't alot that the public doesn't know about public figures. Tell me what is most important when you are picking a coach? To me it would things like: past coaching history, rankings of their offenses, rankings of their defenses, how they did recruiting, how did they perform in bowl games, how did they perform against good competition etc etc etc.
If you think what of kind beverage he prefers is relevant, or what type of underwear he likes (though I would bet you could even find this out on the internet somewhere) than yeah, he might have some information that we don't, but I don't think that is all that relevant.
I am honestly curious to know what things you need to know in terms of credentials for a HC candidate that most people can't find out over the internet? This is not counting things you find out during the interview process because DB didn't interview any of these people. I want to know what you think DB knew about those candidates that excluded them from being good choices for UM that no one else could possibly know?
January 14th, 2011 at 11:40 AM ^
Am I reading this right: Web surfers have access to basically the same info as Dave Brandon, and therefore can second guess every move he makes with complete credibility?
Jesus.
January 14th, 2011 at 11:47 AM ^
I was wondering what the personal thoughts of Les Miles, Harbaugh, and other prominent football people are regarding the schemes, recruiting, startegies, etc of the leading candidates. Can you google that for me?
January 14th, 2011 at 12:44 PM ^
so tell me how you would find that out without talking to them? Because DB made his decision without doing that from what he has said. That is my point....he tried to make it seem like he had tons of information that no one else did and chastised people for questioning his process and decision, when in reality he simply eliminated many because the main criteria was that the person had to be a "michigan man".
He eliminated all other candidates (except perhaps Harbaugh who eliminated himself by taking the SF Job) without even interviewing them because he has said BH was always his number one choice. So what does he know without interviewing any of these other coaches that magically makes BH a better hire than JG, GP, DM etc etc etc?
If DB could just give a single straight truthful answer I may change my opinion of him, but at this point, I can't believe anything the guys says.
January 14th, 2011 at 11:56 AM ^
I follow your point better, I still entirely disagree that just because we can look at a few stats and some rankings here and there we really "know" a coach more than an AD who has access to the exact same information (possibly better presented and researched, possibly not) in addition to being able to interview the coach and figure out how they can adapt to our personell, what they will bring to the team, what they were trying to do with their previous teams and what worked for them and what didn't.
But I do get your point, if one was motivated enough they could go through break down recuriting classes, team rosters, schedules to make those ranking numbers far more meaningful too and have a wealth of information at there hands for a coach.
As I just said though, i still disagree that the interview is as meaningless and trivial as you're trying to make it seem, and don't say that DB "didn't interview any of these people" because you nor I have any idea everyone he interviewed and talked to and possible pursued. I don't know why that line bugged me so much when I read it, but I can't stand when people will make assumptions and present them as facts in an argument.
At the end of the day, I truly believe that DB knows a lot more about each canidiate and what they could bring to the football team then the majority of the public (including the majority of posters on this board. The majority of which probably didn't know anything about Brady Hoke other than whatever Brian has mentioned during the coaching searches), but I do agree that with the internet and videos available that the general public can become very well educated on each canidate.
January 14th, 2011 at 12:38 PM ^
still missed my main point.
I am not going to say with any degree of certainty that DB is a truthful person. In fact, I think there is about a 50% the man is lying everytime he opens his mouth. However, if he is to be believed, he didn't interview anyone for this job other than BH. I agree 100% that the interview process can tell someone much more than anything we can learn from watching these guys coach and google stalking them, but DB didn't do that (or so he said anyway).
With that in mind then, my point was that I don't believe he had a whole lot more information than any of us did in relation to the other candidates out there. Since he didn't contact or interview anyone else for this job (which I believe was what he stated) he excluded JH, JG, LM, GP and every other coach based on information that is pretty easy for people to get access to.
Based on everything we know about those other candidates out there, it is pretty easy to see by any measure that Brady Hoke, as nice a man as he is, is not even remotely in the same category as some other coaches people were talking about. And it doesn't matter how much DB wants to believe that he is the smartest man on the planet and the fanbase are just a bunch of bumbling fools, this decision and the way he allowed this whole proces to be carried out is evidence of the reverse.
January 14th, 2011 at 12:51 PM ^
http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2011/01/david_brandon_on_wdfn…
You may have already seen that considering earlier comments. But it's pretty spot onto our discussion.
However, if he is to be believed, he didn't interview anyone for this job other than BH. I agree 100% that the interview process can tell someone much more than anything we can learn from watching these guys coach and google stalking them, but DB didn't do that (or so he said anyway).
What are you talking about? I recommend you re-watch the Press Conference and maybe re-read a few articles if you think dave brandon ever said he didn't interview anyone else for the job but BH. He said the complete opposite. If your entire point of view and frustration is with that though, I entirely understand and agree. But I simply don't know why you think he said he didn't interview anyone else when he said he did (He never mentioned anybody by name though).
January 14th, 2011 at 10:10 AM ^
If Hoke has the same record as RR after three years, the media and the former players will turn on him too, and with a vengeance.
Former RR supporters (like me) can drive themselves crazy contemplating the astounding differential in media and fan treatment between Hoke and RR, but we'd be fooling ourselves if we denied that ultimately, it all came down to wins, losses, and how competitive we were. If RR had managed somehow, some way to field a more competitive team, and gotten a couple of victories against MSU and OSU in the bargain, Brady Hoke would still be in San Diego.
January 14th, 2011 at 11:02 AM ^
I don't think losing will be happily tolerated either, but:
In an "all other things equal" sort of way, how much slack do you think Brady will get relative to RichRod?
A.) More
B.) Less
If the answer turns out to be "B" I'll eat my keyboard.
January 14th, 2011 at 11:39 AM ^
C) The same.
January 14th, 2011 at 2:51 PM ^
see the Push for details
January 14th, 2011 at 11:43 AM ^
Actually, I don't think it would ever come down solely to wins and losses. I remember being surprised at the venom from a young alum after RR's first year. If RR settled into 9-3 seasons, using smaller players in a spread option, I don't think the fan base (especially the old guard) would treat it the same as Hoke's or Carr's 9-3 seasons, with large, "tough" players in a pro-style offense. Ironically, the same is true for Les Miles at LSU -- despite his incredible success, he is not accepted by some as one of their own, and some pine for an even more elite coach.
As for the future, as long as we are "competitive" with MSU and OSU, I don't see Michigan willing to take chances to bring in new ideas or men who would "need a map of the campus" to get to the next level. I hope I'm wrong, but my guess is that we'll go back to being embarrassed on the national stage when we play teams like Alabama, USC (Rose Bowls), and Oregon. Michigan State this year is a good exemplar of what we're aiming for. (And yes, I realize that RR's team here, after three years, obviously couldn't compete with the Alabamas of the world as well, and also got blown out in some Big Ten games. We will never know whether we could have ultimately put together a team akin to the '07 WVU team that walloped Oklahoma.)
January 14th, 2011 at 12:18 PM ^
Are talking score or what? 14-3 seems like a fairly close game at times, but the 2007 OSU game certainly wasn't competitive.
I also think being "competitive" is useless when you still fucking lose every time.
I second blueheron's point. I can say with confidence that a number of M "fans" hated RR from the time he stepped on campus either due to his accent, his offense, or his lack of direct connection to Michigan.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:12 AM ^
...Something that didn't fully happen in the RR tenure. I've made it known that I dislike the hire and have doubts about the future of the program but I'll fully support Hoke in his attempts to prove me wrong, and I welcome him doing so.
Is it a little forced perhaps? Yes, but who cares? The fanbase needs to unite and its doing its best to do so. Dave Brandon remains dead to me.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:23 AM ^
We need to work on not prefacing "I'll fully support Hoke" with "I dislike the hire." Not picking on wlubd, because it is done a lot, but it is not support if you pronounce your dislike in hte same breath.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:58 AM ^
So I should just erase my entire opinion on the matter and blindly support whoever? Not going to happen.
Like I said, I will fully support because like it or not he is the coach and ultimately I want to see this team win, and in order for it to win, Hoke needs to succeed.
But I'm not going to pretend that I'm overjoyed and that Hoke is SUPER AWESOME AND GOING TO BRING US DOZENS OF CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!!!1!!!!!!. I hope that's true but I'm tempering my expectations until I actually see what happens on the field.
But skepticism does not equal a lack of support. That's the same mentality that some people had in assuming those that wanted RR gone were haters. I loved the guy and felt that he needed to go, not because of anything on the field, but because of how the process went down.
January 14th, 2011 at 11:36 AM ^
I would disagree. I hate seeing all of the prefacing done all the time, but supporting Hoke and being against the hire are two different things.
I did not like the way DB conducted himself in the last six weeks, I think he got "left at the altar" and conducted a "national search" of three candidates, while being a total dick to RR and his staff.
I also recognize that Brady Hoke did nothing more than take an open job, his dream job, and I further recognize that he will work his ass off to make M a winner.
Just because you're not behind the hire doesn't mean you can't then be behind Hoke.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:18 AM ^
Yes, the pushback has been a bit much, as though all the support the AD withheld from RR is now pouring out for Brady Hoke. Man, if they had this good of a marketing plan for their head coach I would have loved to see them implement it, oh, I don't know, maybe a year ago?
Either way, try not to think about it. Just close your nose and drink the Kool Aid, because continuing to be skeptical won't do any good, so might as well enjoy it until football season.
I do find it funny that most of the board was "Oh no, not HOKE!" until he was hired, and now it is "Hoke was the best choice, this is awesome!" I think part of that is that once the guy is hired, you have two choices- do a 180 and accept it or continue to stew. Stewing makes you look unpatriotic (i.e. not supporting your university), so just roll with it. It's not worth the hastle.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:22 AM ^
I'll get there. I just don't like the slurping I'm being accused of above, being suggested as my next best course of action today for the big guy.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:35 AM ^
I take some issue here -- the Michigan athletic department supported RR -- most notably with a vigorous defense of him to the NCAA. If you want to say the extended 'Michigan family' didn't support RR, I'd agree completely.
January 14th, 2011 at 12:04 PM ^
Pretty sure the root of the issue was a guy in the AD that never responded to e-mails regarding CARA forms, leading to FreeP hitjob and the NCAA investigation.
January 14th, 2011 at 2:56 PM ^
Defending RR in the NCAA investigation is part and parcel of defending the university.
That is a far cry from creating and implementing a PR strategy to improve his image and the perception of him by fans, which certainly never occurred in any form for RR.
In fact, the absence of it speaks volumes and overly terse Brandon quotes to the effect of 'RR is Michigan's coach' are more like a vote of no confidence than any kind of endorsement.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:20 AM ^
People just get excited about change. It's a shiny new coach with a shiny new philosophy who happens to have ties to the program. Alot of players and fans are getting behind this so quickly because this is the time to do it. This support, regardless of it's origin, is a nice change from the last three years. Now, once games are actually played or if Hoke makes one "non-michigan" man move (which he will make, it's inevitable, he's human) then we will see if the support is still here. FWIW this hire has grown on me more every day.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:24 AM ^
you must be a Hoke - third cousin on the fathers side?
January 14th, 2011 at 10:29 AM ^
I've actually been a reader for a long time. i just don't comment often. i was a huge RR supporter and at first i hated this hire, but I realized i was being unfair to Hoke considering we don't know what he is capable of yet.
Love your signature, by the way
January 14th, 2011 at 11:11 AM ^
"Points?...Points?...We're talkin' 'bout points! Not the game, but points!"
January 14th, 2011 at 10:20 AM ^
And finally, unusual influx of new MGoBlog members, seemingly most with under 200 mgopoints
No offense, but I have no idea who you are.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:22 AM ^
I'm Larry. Damn glad to meet ya.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:49 AM ^
Well hi there Larry.
I think your larger point is understandable, but only if you were to maybe have taken a break from the blog immediately after the hire. Over the last few days, people have embraced the hire because of (a) positive news (Denard and Fred staying, recruits being retained), (b) Hoke's presser and attitude, and (c) general optimism (Borges is going to run Denard still, but also pass = Michael Vick, our defense has to be better, Hoke loves Michigan).
The AD has to put the full court press on the PR front to sell the hire. Par for the course I think.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:53 AM ^
I DID stay away for a few days after RR got whacked. Didn't stray too far these past couple days, so yeah, I guess it's showing, huh?
Your comment about the Hoke presser is kinda funny, local Detroit/Windsor radio, the "sports jock" called the press conference a happy event for every "Michigan slap-dick." Then actually did his own impersonation, basically just using the mgoboard post for the over/under words/names/phrases to be heard.
January 14th, 2011 at 11:06 AM ^
Yeah, I mean, it was, but that was probably exactly Brandon's plan. I wonder how much Hoke was coached (if at all). If he wasn't, it's actually more impressive that he had that much energy and enthusiasm/ability to connect with the fanbase.
I really liked Rich as a person and coach, but I wish Martin had made him go through a week-long workshop on public speaking and media interaction for leaders. These days, you have to be able to talk to the media and hundreds of thousands of fans.
Unless you're Schnelly.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:52 AM ^
i understand the feeling. You can look back at my posts and see that I am not, in fact, a Hoke troll
January 14th, 2011 at 10:21 AM ^
Could this be a product of DB learning from Bill Martin's experience that you really have to sell the new coach in a way that takes advantage of the 24/7 news cycle, rather than being victimized by said short attention span reporting? DB seems a whole lot more media-aware - old and new media - than his predecessor.
Although I share the OP's discomfort with the over-the-top coverage and opinion-shaping, I admire DB for doing everything he can to make sure this new hire starts with as positive an image as possible.
January 14th, 2011 at 10:24 AM ^
I too was wondering this morning about related issues raised by the OP. Now, I'd be surprised if all these new MGoBlog members are actually planted by the AD, but, I also wouldn't rule out the possibility. DB is all about marketing. I'm surpised he hasn't replaced "The Team, The Team, The Team" with "The Brand, The Brand, The Brand." And his branding is BO-BALLMICHIGANHISTORYANDTRADITIONCARRIEDNOWBYBRADY.
The things that got me wondering are: (1) the FB Hokemania sunshine blown up my patootie; (2) DB's happy happy tweets on "what a perfect day" it is; (3) DB's incessant referrence to "The Team" x3; (4) referring to BH simply as "Brady" to reignite what we all loved in calling our coach simply Bo.
Yes, its easy to call this all conspiracy theory, because it is. I am not saying that I 100% believe this to be the case. But I certainly do suspect that DB has laid out a full scale marketing campaign plan to convince us all that it's "morning in Ann Arbor" again, and not only that, but it's a good "Bo Morning" and a good "Lloyd Morning." Well, now its a good Brady Morning.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if DB is using all means at his disposal to create an environment of that subconsciously tells us we're back in the good ol' glory days again.
I believe DB was once quoted saying: "I don't talk about the past; I create the future." Well, I am certainly open to the possibility that he is creating the future in our minds (and it being a case of "back to the future).
So let me conclude again by saying I don't necessarily believe this is all happening. But I don't discount the idea much either.