Admission help!
My nephew lives in Ohio, wants to go to UM and has the scores. Tuition out of state is beyond insane. BEYOND! Anyone have any suggestions for appealing to admissions beyond being deserving? Our out of state BS tuition kills our popularity in Ohio IMO because kids here like Michigan, and want to go, but the tuition levels drive great candidates away. Situations like this are a way to catch up with gaining on our popularity in Ohio. Any advice for how he can make himself more likely to get some out of state financial support?
August 21st, 2021 at 10:09 PM ^
Best of luck. Hope he gets the financial help and gets to go to UM. If not, it isn’t the end of the world. Where he goes to school doesn’t matter in vast majority of professions. Just get a degree. That being said…I hope he gets to go to his dream school.
August 21st, 2021 at 11:22 PM ^
If he REALLY, REALLY wants to go to UM but the tuition bill is too high, your nephew could always delay a year. He would then use that time to establish MI residency. He could move to Michigan, get a job and work for a year, obtain a MI driver's license, register to vote in MI, maybe take a class or two at the local Community College (make sure UM will transfer the credits), and then apply as a Michigan resident a year down the road.
EDIT: And whatever happens, NEVER OSU! What does it profit a man to gain the whole (college football) world but lose his very soul?
August 22nd, 2021 at 9:09 AM ^
This sounds great, but I'm not so sure it's that easy. I'm sure if you google it, UM has an establish residency page that has more hoope to jump thru than "spend a year living in MI" even if you do vote and get a license.
August 23rd, 2021 at 7:12 PM ^
Maybe not a great idea. Let’s say he establishes residency in Michigan, does the voting thing and wins a good citizenship award from the county he moves to for parking between the lines of his apartment parking lot for 365 consecutive days. He then applies after a year but still ends up getting the thin letter from Michigan Admissions. That could happen.
August 22nd, 2021 at 9:47 AM ^
I don't know if it's changed, but I had a buddy at Michigan that did pretty much everything you could do to establish residency in Michigan. I think there was some little known codicil that said if it appears that you did what you did to establish residency then you can go fuck yourself
August 22nd, 2021 at 12:16 PM ^
^ This.
I am an Ann Arbor resident, born and raised. I have never lived outside of Ann Arbor, let alone the state of Michigan. I worked food service for much of my twenties before deciding that I wanted to attend college. I applied and was accepted to UM when I was 26. By that time, my parents had moved out of state but I was still living and working in AA. Because my parents no longer lived in MI, UM immediately classified me as out-of-state. I had to go through an appeal process that included a background check of all previous residences, W2s showing I was working full-time in AA, and a letter from my employer stating that I had been working in AA for years. After several months, UM finally granted me in-state status. They continued to classify me (then reclassified upon appeal) as out-of-state when I reapplied at 28 as a non-degree seeking student and 30 as a graduate student. Needless to say, UM is very stringent when it comes to establishing residency.
OP, here are UM's guidelines for establishing residency. Your nephew moving to AA/MI, working a job "normally held by a student", and attending the local community college is not going to cut it.
August 22nd, 2021 at 3:44 PM ^
As best I can recall, to be eligible for "in-state" tuition at Michigan in addition to establishing residency one has to be independent. That means off of your parent's taxes, not receiving any support from parents, etc.
August 22nd, 2021 at 4:55 PM ^
The basic principle is that if your primary reason for moving in Michigan was to attend school, then you can’t establish residency this way. I think it would be potentially challenging for a 18-year old to demonstrate that a move to Michigan was for something other than to try to attend UM more cheaply. But I don’t know. It’s easier, I think, than for a person who enrolls and then starts all these steps. Still seems like a big gamble.
August 21st, 2021 at 10:35 PM ^
I'll put in a word with Admissions for you.
Sorry, but they don't listen to me! Further, to my knowledge Michigan only provides need based aid, so unless he is a large, fast human good at the football, it's going to be very expensive to attend.
My own view on this is that an undergrad education at Michigan is not that different from any other large university. Students get out what they put in, and the name on the diploma is less important. Not unimportant, but less important.
August 21st, 2021 at 10:53 PM ^
I agree that what the student puts in is important.
I'd add that it means classes AND things outside class. Friends, clubs, hobbies, engaging people different than yourself, watching sports you don't normally see, spending an idle afternoon touring the stacks in the library (like browsing the internet but slower and, despite the absence of clickbait, often more interesting).
August 21st, 2021 at 10:59 PM ^
I still like to wander through the library occasionally on my free time. Just love the smell of the books.
August 22nd, 2021 at 2:11 PM ^
Always said that easily half of what I learned in Ann Arbor was outside the classroom.
August 21st, 2021 at 10:43 PM ^
He should go to OSU. Maybe not quite as good a school but a helluva lot cheaper and with a much better football team to pass the time.
August 22nd, 2021 at 1:02 PM ^
You a very bad man.
August 22nd, 2021 at 4:23 PM ^
Miami (NNTM) or Ohio Univ are good options and he doesn’t have to go to OSU
August 21st, 2021 at 11:10 PM ^
How about finding a cheaper school?
Before Clint Eastwood started talking to empty barstools in front of empty heads, he made a movie in which the title character said something to the effect of "We all get what we deserve"
August 22nd, 2021 at 12:34 PM ^
So the real message to the OP and his kid is, "Do you feel lucky, punk?"
August 21st, 2021 at 11:14 PM ^
Look into an ROTC scholarship.
August 21st, 2021 at 11:41 PM ^
Yep... go space force and it will be just like a 9-5 job except not having to worry about what to wear when one wakes up in the morning.
August 21st, 2021 at 11:19 PM ^
Do you live in Michigan? You might be able to swing something where he can put down your address as his home address, although it's probably a longshot.
Otherwise I think it's not Admissions you're looking for, but the Office of Financial Aid.
August 21st, 2021 at 11:39 PM ^
Anyone have any suggestions for appealing to admissions beyond being deserving?
You'll have to engage the regents and/or legislature.
August 22nd, 2021 at 12:06 AM ^
Back 15 years or so ago I knew a couple students from Ohio that got some kind of out-of-state scholarship that essentially covered the difference between in-state and out-of-state tuition (i.e. with the scholarship they only paid what essentially amounted to in-state tuition). Pretty sure it was merit (not need) based, since I can't see how they would have qualified for need-based financial aid. Not sure if U of M still offers that or not, but it may be an option to look into.
August 22nd, 2021 at 12:16 AM ^
Once Ohio residents start paying taxes in Michigan, I'll start carrying about the out-of-state tuition they have to pay.
August 22nd, 2021 at 12:49 AM ^
State funds used to be about 80% of the operating budget and now they are about 13% with tuition and fees picking up the slack. They are carrying more of the load whether you are carrying or not.
August 22nd, 2021 at 3:48 PM ^
While a lot of that difference has been made up by increasing the endowment, some comes from the premium paid by out-of-state and out-of-country students.
August 22nd, 2021 at 9:13 AM ^
those $8.16 of your state taxes that get portioned off to the University of Michigan budget as appropriated by the State is really hitting you that hard eh?
August 22nd, 2021 at 1:38 PM ^
It's laughable to consider Michigan a "state" school or to argue how your tax dollars offset what you would otherwise pay. When state funds only cover about 5% of the University's budget, you have to appreciate how much of the load is being borne by the Out-Of-State (OOS), and the International student body (which has taken a hit during Covid). The in-state student body has a lot to be thankful for, not least of which is the OSS and International contingencies that disproportionately support the quality of the institution. The bill currently stands at $60K/year for non-residents (not including room + board) with residents paying $20K. This type of differential does not seem justified, nor does the notion of "state" school when the State of Michigan is not supporting the differential in tuition rates.
August 22nd, 2021 at 2:15 PM ^
The only way Michigan can get away with such low in-state tuition rates is precisely because of those high out-of-state rates. And the only way that works is because a Michigan degree is in such high demand from out-of-state and international students.
August 22nd, 2021 at 2:04 PM ^
An out-of-state applicant can get aid based on need or merit (or both). But the requirements are pretty strict and codified. In other words, the out-of-stater in question needs to be especially qualified or of very limited means. The school will prioritize in-state "need" students for obvious reasons; it has less incentive to give need-based scholarships to out-of-state applicants because a) it's a state school and b) it gets rich by soaking out-of-staters.
August 22nd, 2021 at 7:34 AM ^
Local alumni clubs often offer some (not a lot) scholarship help to admitted students. There are several clubs in Ohio. You might check out what your area club has to offer.
August 22nd, 2021 at 7:42 AM ^
Depending upon what your nephew wants to study, I would think twice before getting student loans to pay for out of state tuition. He will become shackled to that loan payment and it will put him in some financial jeopardy if he doesn't get a very high paying job after school.
I agree with Hotel Putingrad that your nephew's best bet is OSU. It's not Michigan, but it's still very good academically. If he has his heart set on going out of state, consider schools like Arizona State that will offer scholarships to bring out of state tuition down to in-state values. That's what my son did and it made his choice to go out of state financially viable.
Incidentally, I'm a hiring manager at my company and I also mentor U-M students as they think about their career paths. Personally, I could not care less where a candidate went to college. I look at the following hiring criteria, more or less in this order:
1. Experience - both internships and projects completed; what they were asked to achieve/solve, what they did to achieve the outcome, the results, and lessons learned.
2. Skills - not what they have done, but what CAN they do?
3. GPA - not just the raw number, but also a crisp explanation if they're below a benchmark like 3.0; I was not exactly a model student myself, but I learned my lessons and improved over time. Most hiring managers who are worth working for will appreciate a candidate who got things turned around, took challenging classes from the start rather than pad a GPA with basket weaving and The History of Crayola, or who was working at least part time to pay for school and had less time for study.
4. Honors and awards
August 22nd, 2021 at 1:08 PM ^
My daughter did the same. Got a great scholarship at ASU. I've been pretty impressed by the school. It's improved so much in the last 15 years. The kids in the honors college are Michigan level academically.
I agree. Your internships and major might be more important than the school name on the diploma.
August 22nd, 2021 at 8:16 AM ^
In the fall of 2020, about 22% of the out-of-state applicants were accepted by U of M. There were more than 50,000 out-of-state applicants. Of those out-of-state applicants accepted, 28% enrolled compared to 70% of the in-state students accepted. Michigan's out-of-state tuition is competitive with many peer schools and there are many more qualified applicants than U of M might accommodate.
The New York Times reported in a study of 27 highly selective public colleges that U of M ranked #1 in percentage of students (9.3%) from families in the top 1% of income and about 50% of students were from families in the top 10% of income. Financial aid is available for students on a need basis. About 40% of undergraduates receive some grant aid and 20% of students overall and 27% of in-state students pay no tuition. There may be some financial pain to attend Michigan for many and there likely will be less expensive alternatives particularly for out-of-state students, but there is no compelling reason for U of M to reduce out-of-state tuition.
If there was a loophole for out-of-state students to reduce tuition at Michigan that was published on an open forum, one might expect out-of-state applications to rise and the percentage accepted to fall. It is also likely administration at Michigan would promptly close the loophole to maintain funding. U of M does not make it easy for a non-resident to qualify for in-state tuition. Attending a community college in Michigan for a year or two does not appear to change residency status for purposes of admission.
August 22nd, 2021 at 8:22 AM ^
He isn’t getting financial support from Michigan unless he’s also getting into Yale/Stanford. His best bet is local and National money. There are thousands of scholarships to apply to.
Also as others have said, he’s better off going to psu over taking on a hundred thousand in debt to go to Michigan. But if he is willing to work he can probably find the money, just going to involve writing a lot of essays for scholarships
August 22nd, 2021 at 8:25 AM ^
I might add, if his ultimate goal is to attend grad school, do undergrad instate then apply to UM.
August 22nd, 2021 at 9:04 AM ^
chewieblue: How old is your nephew? Senior? Already accepted? That would be helpful information here.
I agree that out-of-state tuition is beyond insane ... for out-of-state kids without rich parents. If you have rich parents, why not? It's a Public Ivy and a great place to do undergrad if you can't get into an actual Ivy.
If you don't have rich parents, paying out-of-state tuition or private-school tuition for anything less than an Ivy is beyond beyond insane. You're shooting yourself and probably your parents in the foot. Don't do it! It's even worse at the K-12 level.
It's not BS tuition, by the way. If you're Michigan, why not charge what the market will bear? They get plenty of great candidates -- including hundreds from Ohio -- at the current price. They're very popular as-is. That's part of the story.
I'm with the others who suggested OSU. Yes, it's the evil football empire and all that, but it's a good, full-service school. You could way worse. Miami U. is another good in-state choice.
August 22nd, 2021 at 11:35 AM ^
Miami of Ohio is a very good school, and would be my in-state recommendation since I can't bring myself to say "go to OSU"...
August 22nd, 2021 at 12:03 PM ^
I was going to add that. While it is hard for an 18 year old to know exactly what they want to do (I would guess around 1/3 of the students that were in my roommates Inteflex class are not Doctors), I would recommend Miami (or some of the other state schools) over OSU for some programs. (Miami might be better for Journalism, Cincinnati is better for pre-med, OU is better for film/tv).
While it hurts me to say it though, if he is undecided, OSU is probably the best bet overall. Apart from football (and sports in general which are admittedly huge) Columbus is a fun town with lots going on.
August 22nd, 2021 at 2:40 PM ^
That Inteflex class had some pretty good attrition. Maybe why it doesn't exist anymore.
August 22nd, 2021 at 9:07 AM ^
Join the club. We have jackets.
EDIT: In all seriousness dude - even if he got in (and make no mistake, *if* he has the "scores" it'll be a 50-50 prop. at best) you'll have to show need. Other than that, go for s'ships thru local Alum Assoc and other organizations. If he wants it bad enough he'' apply for ~20 s'ships and hope for ~ $500-$1000 on average from each.
August 22nd, 2021 at 9:35 AM ^
The East Coast kids seem to have no problem with out of state tuition. Has your nephew considered being wealthy?
August 22nd, 2021 at 9:39 AM ^
My son went to UM from out of state. When he graduated I got a 50K a year raise. (Glass half full).
For aero he looked elsewhere as our in-state options weren't near as good. The best programs were Cal Tech, MIT, Stanford and Michigan was the school with the best shot. Not a sniff from Cal Tech and Stanford and wait list at MIT. (all of those options would have been as much or more than MICH)
I agree with others though that for most fields of undergraduate study, get a more affordable degree and excel. Unless mom and dad can swing it--don't be shackled with over $200K in debt for a job that pays substantially less.
My second son went in state and I think I love him just a little bit more for it.
August 22nd, 2021 at 9:45 AM ^
I would agree with others - the absolute easiest thing for him to do would likely be to go to Ohio State, which is still a pretty good academic institution, and of course, he would be under no obligation to cheer for the Buckeyes (I know Michigan grads whose athletic loyalties are decidedly not in Ann Arbor, so it happens). If it came to this, establishing Michigan residency, I would think, is not too difficult if you have family here already (and if they are in Metro Detroit, particularly the western reaches or right in Washtenaw County, that's even better for support probably), but as someone said, the University does have some requirements regarding this as well.
August 22nd, 2021 at 11:59 AM ^
I graduated from high school in PA but burned out on living there, so I moved to Texas for undergrad. To get in-state tuition at Texas, you have to 1) live in the state, 2) have a license, and 3) maintain a job for 1 year.
Since I wanted to save money, I decided that I could attend Austin Community College for a year and get the most basic classes out of the way (checked if UT would accept them and they did). Meanwhile, I got a TX drivers license and had a job at a local Best Buy. Then I transferred into Texas when my time came. Saved a ton of money and was no worse off for sacrificing 1 year of big time school to go to a community college.
I’m not sure what Michigan’s policy on something similar would be if he went to a community college in Michigan that has a program with The University of Michigan to accept credits, or if he could attended UM-Flint or something. There may be a situation similar to mine that he could take advantage of, but I didn’t look to hard. Below is for the local community college in Ann Arbor:
https://www.wccnet.edu/learn/transfer-wcc-credits/umich-transfer.php
Otherwise, go to another school. If he is in Ohio, what about Miami, Cincy, Ohio U etc.? All fine schools. At the end of the day, it’s just a piece of paper in undergrad to 90% of hiring managers. The internships and more in the field during those years are what really help you get the job.
The goal should just be to graduate with a degree in a field they like - and that will probably change. I know for me personally, I started in architecture/engineering for 2 years and ended up finishing with a business degree, and then getting a masters in a specialty somewhere else.
If the grades are good enough, go to UM for grad school.
August 22nd, 2021 at 1:01 PM ^
Good luck. We were in the same position in 2020. I'm an alum, daughter accepted, lack of financial aid was ridiculous. I do ok, but don't want to spend 1/3 of my gross income on U of M. (One of the financial aid counselors told me it was cheaper for her sister to attend Yale than U of M in state)
Daughter accepted a full tuition ride at ASU Honors and hasn't looked back. She's very happy. There are lots of schools besides Michigan where you can have a great college experience.
Your nephew can try, but chances for substantial OOS aid aren't good unless they're hurting financially.
Has he looked at Miami of Ohio? They have lots of great offers for high achieving students.
August 22nd, 2021 at 2:14 PM ^
I agree it's not worth draining a family's savings just to go to 1 desired school. I know how much this sort of thing means to some kids -- it was M or bust for me -- but one thing this country has in abundance is good colleges. I know a lot of teens today who literally can't sleep bc they're so worried about getting into certain top schools. That's really ridiculous in the grand scheme of things.
If you get into Harvard or Stanford, great, go for it. But if you end up "settling" for Arizona or Florida or Wayne State, you're still fine. A kid who finishes a the top of the class at the schools will be equally as desirable as a kid who's in the middle-of-the-pack at an Ivy. It's what you do with the school, not the school's name, that matters most. And, in most cases, where you went to college matters less and less with each job you get. Once you've been in the workforce for a few years, people rarely care where you went to college.
August 22nd, 2021 at 4:32 PM ^
Sorry, but I don’t think this is how the world works. There is a near-zero chance that someone who graduates near the top of their class at Wayne State is getting offered better career opportunities than someone who graduates in the middle of the pack at Harvard, either right after graduation or several years out. Lament it all you want, but it’s not reality.
August 22nd, 2021 at 5:07 PM ^
Like he said though, at the next level no one cares. Once you have an MD, let's say, no one cares if your undergrad was Harvard or Wayne State. Once you're in residency, no one cares whether you went to med school at Wayne State or Michigan, etc.
I don't know how that works in non medical fields
August 22nd, 2021 at 10:58 PM ^
I work at a large company that prioritizes recruits that excel wherever they are. Maybe Harvard is a bad example in that it and few others have an advantage. But a kid who finishes in to top of class at Wayne compared to a middle of the road kid from Michigan — we’d err toward the kid from Wayne, for a number of reasons. Only one of the two is exceptional.
August 22nd, 2021 at 1:23 PM ^
Honestly, as others have said, just go to whatever local college makes sense and then if he still wants to go to UM do so as a graduate student. It's sort of why schools tend to have discounted tuition for in-state kids; they want to encourage young people to stick around and support the community versus kids who come from out of the state and may just leave afterwards. It's not always fair but unless he can establish residency requirements that's probably his best bet. Good luck.