ACC Conference Expansion - markets / viewership - potential candidates
The status of the ACC as a conference is an ongoing topic of conversation. Recent articles indicated that SMU might be an ACC candidate. And, of course, the future of Stanford and Cal remain unknown.
This article caught my eye - primarily because it contained data on viewership for ACC football. To no one's surprise, Clemson and FSU lead the ACC. What is interesting is - how the remainder of the ACC football teams rank when compared to the four remaining Pac-12 teams (Stanford, Cal, WSU, and OSU) - as well as certain G5 teams that might be interested in the ACC, or vice-versa.
There was no significant reference to the GoR, but the viewership numbers are interesting. Specifically, Stanford and Cal draw greater viewership than most of the current ACC teams.
https://rubbingtherock.com/2023/08/08/clemson-football-acc-expansion-candidates-based-viewership/
August 9th, 2023 at 10:58 AM ^
The Atlantic Coast Conference is mulling over adding four schools that border the pacific ocean.
If that doesnt define just how fucking off the rails crazy college football conference expansion has become I dont kinow what will.
Seriously. What's the point of conferences anymore?
August 9th, 2023 at 11:11 AM ^
They might need to change the name of the league to the Athletic Coasts Conference. I might need to workshop that a bit...
August 9th, 2023 at 12:39 PM ^
American Coasts Conference
August 9th, 2023 at 12:47 PM ^
from sea to shining sea conference
The name comes complete with the new conference anthem
Atlanto-Pacifico coastal conference. Or how about Atlanto-Pacifico-gulfofmexico coastal conference just to make it even stupider?
Arbitrary Coasts Conference.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:11 AM ^
Seriously. What's the point of conferences anymore?
My thoughts exactly. It's almost as if it might make more sense for all the commissioners and/or NCAA to get together and look big picture at what they want the landscape to look like and what makes sense for the long term health of their member schools. Instead of everyone panicking and making short-sighted moves based on revenue and not thinking about their student athletes.
Crazy thought, huh?
August 9th, 2023 at 11:49 AM ^
All these guys will be dead before they fully get to see the building they set on fire burn to the ground completely. They'll be lying in their mahogany caskets as the remnants of college football drift away into the atmosphere.
Jim Delaney's epitaph will read: James E. Delany 1948- "Comedian. Masturbator. Destroyer of College Football"
So as far as the world of college football believes, Jim Delaney is (also) the destroyer of worlds. Great...
August 9th, 2023 at 11:13 AM ^
I'm an old school - get off my lawn - guy.
The genie's out of the bottle - and, despite my wishes and hopes for "traditional conference" structures - ten teams in the Big Ten, the "old" ACC, the Big East, etc. - it's not going to happen.
As others noted in different threads - it's all about money. My question is - what's enough? Will there ever be "enough"? It does appear the answer is - no - and, conferences will continue to dilute the experience with more commercial breaks - and anything to add a dollar to the bottom line.
If I had a wish - the conferences would "go back to what they were" around 1990. Use the major bowl structures for the first round of the playoffs - so, every year - the Pac and B1G would meet in the Rose Bowl, the SEC champ would play in the Sugar Bowl, the Big 8 champ in the Orange or Fiesta, etc.
Who am I kidding. It's a wish - a dream - and, nothing close to the reality we live in.
Trying to relive youth is the folly of the old.
(Spoken through experience, mind you...)
August 9th, 2023 at 11:46 AM ^
This kind of merger became inevitable when The Alliance was announced, which was itself a reaction to Texas/OU moving to the SEC. Just be happy the B1G gets to be selective rather than tacking on all of the ACC and Pac-12.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:46 AM ^
Not exactly a new idea but I think Chip Kelly got it about right the other day:
August 9th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^
Football should be treated separately than other sports - that I agree with - but I still want Michigan to be in a conference. Making everyone independent means the national title is the only thing out there.
or it would make rivalry games matter even more
August 9th, 2023 at 12:22 PM ^
Not that it would ever happen due to divisions I'm guessing but if Cal and Stanford played each other for the conference title of the Atlantic Coast Conference, heads would roll.
What a tremendous scenario. I would LOVE to see that - which, would reflect on just how deep and talented the ACC really is.
It doesn't make sense unless you follow the money. (And then to most of us it still doesn't make sense).
I suggest we change the BigTen to the BigMoney conference.
Honestly, conferences don't *need* to be defined by geography (although it is a simple and effective method). There are other criteria, and the new composition of the Big Ten still shares a general set of certain traditions/values/cuture/expectations as they did on previous iterations. The same can be said of the new composition of the SEC and (to a lesser extent) the Big 12.
USC, UCLA, UW, and OU seem a tremendously better "fit" in the the Big Ten than FSU, Clemson, Miami or even Virginia/Duke/GT.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:02 AM ^
Just fold the ACC and these 4 schools into the Big10 and create 3 divisions which are the current Big10, Pac 8, and current ACC. Isn't that where we are headed?
Hard to picture schools like Washington State and Louisville, or even Clemson, in the Big 10. There does still seem to be an academic threshold, if not a geographical one.
If recent trends continue, I could picture a 32-team "AAU+Nebraska" conference -- can brand itself as "elite academics/athletics, whereas the SEC is community colleges with NFL teams" -- with eight four-team divisions:
Miami-FL
Ga Tech
UNC
Duke
Virginia
Rutgers
Maryland
Penn St
Pitt
Ohio St
Michigan
MSU
Notre Dame
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois
Northwestern
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Iowa
Nebraska
Kansas
Colorado
Utah
Washington
Oregon
Cal
Stanford
USC
UCLA
Arizona
Arizona St
OK so maybe ASU is a bridge too far, even with their recent AAU status? Go get Missouri or Tulane then...
August 9th, 2023 at 11:09 AM ^
I think that's why FSU wants out. They want a much bigger slice of the ACC pie that the ACC is refusing. Maybe the BIG will plant another Iceberg in front of the Titanic and poach FSU.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:40 AM ^
My feeling from living in Tallahassee is if the FSU admin had their first choice it would be the B1G and not entirely for financial reasons. They have really focused on academics and research the past 20 years and want to join the AAU badly.
The fanbase definitely wants the SEC, though. Understandably at that.
I think if the B1G made the offer and they knew they had a way out of the GoR they would be here immediately even over a potential SEC offer.
August 9th, 2023 at 12:19 PM ^
Yes, my wife is part of a project designed to link FSU more closely to area hospitals and help boost the u's case; there was consternation over South Florida getting invited to the AAU this spring and not FSU. I think today was a deadline for departure from the ACC, though. And examination of the Stanford and Cal cases may have complicated FSU's path further. If we don't hear anything today, there may be a hiatus.
Also, Sankey said in an interview yesterday that no offer was on the table for FSU from the ACC. People don't always tell the truth, but I found that interesting. It just may be that until some investment firm agrees on a large chunk of the profit, the financial hurdle may be too high.
And I could be wrong and wild changes come tomorrow, not necessarily for FSU.
August 9th, 2023 at 12:51 PM ^
If you think of the media entities and "what they have to gain" - by adding Clemson and/or FSU to the SEC - the answer is - "zero", and probably a loss. Why? Because ESPN has the broadcast rights to both the ACC and SEC. ESPN already has that inventory. There's no magic synergy in my eyes (from a media contract) that would justify the increase in media payout.
So, why would ESPN - who is looking for every revenue source they can - just say - "Go ahead, switch conferences - and, we'll just pay Clemson and FSU an additional $10+M per year because we're such nice guys." That, IMO, isn't going to happen.
Interesting take, an angle I had not heard offered before. You'd want to test this idea, since Clemson and FSU clearly bring more eyeballs to the SEC, but you're right--maybe only marginally more. In fact, FSU and Clemson fans are probably already watching those SEC games. But if Clemson and FSU open up the South to a widened viewership, that could imply lots more added viewers for the Big Ten, which really might only pull a handful much of the time, for the PSUs, OSUs, and Michigans. How you get to such projections without (unreliable) surveys, I don't know. But clearly, FSU and Clemson viewers carry a lot more new, regular eyeballs to the B1G than to the SEC. Really interesting, in my view.
I know there was a discussion a few days ago about FSU seeking a private equity solution for their buyout, and it something that would seem like it could make sense in the long term. As long as it was structured in a way where the gains from a larger TV deal outstripped their losses, why not? Especially considering that I feel like FSU has academic reasons for wanting to join the B1G as well.
Part of this is me just trying to speak it into existence, watching UM at Doak would be incredible.
I want no part of FSU, Miami, Orange Bowl, Citrus Bowl, Gator Bowl or anything else even remotely connected to Florida given the current political climate there. Until that changes, they're off the table.
To you maybe, but the fans wants and needs are pretty much the last thing being taken into account on conference realignment.
Truth hurts?
August 10th, 2023 at 8:40 PM ^
The truth that you don't want those teams in the B1G? Not, probably, your most sophisticated take.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:10 AM ^
I really want the Big 10 to add Stanford and Cal. I know it doesn't make sense on a dollars and cents level but they are both great universities with great sports that aren't football. It would make travel a lot easier for all the student athletes. I know these TV deals are the primary component in these decisions but I'm hoping dollars aren't the only thing that matter at the end of the day.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:15 AM ^
Unfortunately, dollars are the only thing that matters to the Big10 schools right now. As much as we want to blame "the conference" none of this would be happening without the backing of the schools in the Big10, including Michigan.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:17 AM ^
It certainly would make it much more difficult to win a Big10 championship in a lot of sports.
August 9th, 2023 at 12:43 PM ^
Is that a good thing?
August 9th, 2023 at 12:59 PM ^
That's what I keep thinking.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:24 AM ^
I agree. There might as well be a true Western division so that teams from current Pac 12 schools can mostly stay out West and teams from current Big Ten schools can largely stay where they are.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:33 AM ^
"but I'm hoping dollars aren't the only thing that matter at the end of the day."
Man, that ship has sailed. That horse has left the barn. That toothpaste is out of the tube. We are in pure cynical cash grab territory, and have been for several years now.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:47 AM ^
Adding those two potentailly makes 2 divisions of 10
USC/UCLA/UW/UO/Stan/Cal/Neb/Iowa/Minn/Wisc
M/OSU/MSU/PSU/Ill/NW/Pur/IN/Rut/Maryland
Still not sure Stan and Cal are worth the payout
August 9th, 2023 at 11:18 AM ^
If we're only focused on TV viewers at this point, the ACC should add Taylor Swift. A single one of her concerts will wildly exceed an entire season of Cal football when it comes to viewership.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:49 AM ^
Incredible idea. Cal football or a non-FSU/Clemson ACC game could be the opening act each Saturday in the fall for a stadium sized Taylor Swift concert main event afterwards. Gold, pure gold.
They'd have to add Beyonce to balance it out. Swift v. Beyonce would be a great matchup too.
Why am I getting "Lingerie Football League" vibes out of the above posts?
Could happen. For example, Taylor Swift is almost identical to Napoleon Dynamite, and in his family there is an aspiring cage fighter and a guy who can throw the football a quarter mile. So, the athletics are there, in the genes.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:19 AM ^
UNC, NC State, Virginia, Duke, Wake, VT, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse.
I swear that these are all the same team, every single year. They go 7-5 every year and wind up in the Charlotte Bowl.
Obviously the above is an exaggeration, but it’s not much of one. The ACC isn’t a terrible conference, but they desperately need some teams beyond the Top 2 to distinguish themselves.
The ACC better not dissolve before my dream of an all-4-4 ACC Coastal comes true.
(We've gotten to at least one late-November with that still in play...)
August 10th, 2023 at 12:47 PM ^
I'm sure someone on the East Coast is saying the same thing about Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, and Purdue. But I get what you mean.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:20 AM ^
Idc about this. Where is our camp updates from our “insiders”!!! We have gotten not one nugget and it’s been a week and a half! Come on people
August 9th, 2023 at 11:36 AM ^
GB comin
August 9th, 2023 at 12:11 PM ^
wtf rotfl lmao omg fr fr