The 2-QB package is probably not going away
From what I've seen, every fan and media member thinks putting both Shea and McCaffrey on the field at the same time is dumb. Unfortunately, none of us get a vote. Signs point toward this happening again.
Tuesday, he [McCaffrey] said that the idea for the two-quarterback package came mostly from offensive coordinator Josh Gattis. “He had seen and done some of it in the past," McCaffrey said, "and it’d been effective for him, so figured we could try here.” For now, it would appear likely that Michigan hasn't shown the entirety of the package.
As we all know, Locksley called all the plays at Alabama while Gattis just played tiddlywinks in the coaches box. However, in between shooting winks in the pot, Gattis probably looked up and saw Tua and Hurts together on the field:
The one-two punch of Hurts and Tagovailoa has also been rather forceful. Against Arkansas, the package netted 16 yards per play. A week later, it pushed Alabama into the red zone before setting up a field goal to extend the Tide’s lead over Missouri. And in the win over Oklahoma, it helped finish off the Crimson Tide’s third scoring drive.
I think Gattis is not done with this obsession.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:03 AM ^
The 2-QB package looked like crap the few times it was rolled out during the opener. We all agree on that
However, I am going to guess that Gattis and Harbaugh know a bit more about football than most of us, and have the added advantage of actually observing practice. Does that make them infallible? No, but if they see potential in using the 2-QB thing, I am curious to see how it develops. If it is still a tire fire after a few tries, then I suspect that it will be scrapped.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:06 AM ^
These packages are white whales. Coaches can't stop drooling over them but have no idea what to do with it. Any success that has come out of them could have been easily accomplished with talented WRs or RBs and would also have the added element of actual surprise if they end up throwing the ball. I'm waiting for one of these so-called "creative" plays to actually be creative.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:37 AM ^
A few years ago ULM used a 2QB system where both lines up in shotgun near each other. Niether was an amazing QB, but both could run and throw decently - and their offense was able to move the ball forward relatively well. This could work at the upper D1 level if the talent is there and the system is well executed (of course, the same thing can be said for almost any offensive sytem I suppose).
September 4th, 2019 at 1:46 PM ^
(A) The "they're better coaches" thing.
(B) Our confusion will decrease as reps increase, but there will be less of a decrease in the confusion of opponents who have only seen it on film but not on the field at game speed.
(C) The sheer number of possibilities increases the likelihood that we can use this a few times for a misdirection that nets a big score (or big play that leads to one) in a big came.
I'm ok with toying around. Just enjoying watching us do things that have plausible explanations. Something that has not always been the case with our offense the last couple years.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:37 AM ^
But didn't you just post above that the 2 QB system actually worked at Alabama? Isn't that an example of "one of these so-called "creative" plays to actually be creative"?
As an aside, the amount of hand wringing over our new OC experimenting with some different packages in the home opener against lower level competition is mind boggling to me.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:38 AM ^
Not to be that guy, but the correct term is "Mind Bottling", I saw it in a movie, so...
/s just in case
September 4th, 2019 at 11:01 AM ^
The 2-QB package at Bama netted positive yardage. So did many of their other plays. Jalen Hurts is faster than McCaffrey. Bama ran jet sweeps, option, simple WR route, etc. Nothing creative.
September 4th, 2019 at 12:42 PM ^
Thank you for correctly calling it a 2-QB package.
A 2-QB system is another thing entirely, like what we saw Henson's freshman year.
September 4th, 2019 at 12:54 PM ^
Sophomore year.
September 6th, 2019 at 4:21 AM ^
How do you justify it working at other places better than standard packages?
You just have a take and it's an easy one to have. There are 3 examples of in this thread alone including one of the OCs former team and you still want to act as if you're smarter than the coach.
I'm not a believer either but I'm not going to sit her and act like the coaches are just infatuated with something that worked on NCAA 2006 and want to try it in a real game.
Maybe we should run punt block in short yardage situations.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:01 AM ^
I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now. But I gave them the benefit of the doubt on the Pepcat package all year and it went exactly nowhere. I'm hoping this isn't a repeat of that.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:28 AM ^
This is exactly where my mindset is. Similar to the white whale comment, this type of play seems to zone in coaches into keep trying something because it'll work eventually. It doesn't spectacurlarly fail, but it also isn't amazingly successful. I'm down with letting it play out, but if we go with the same tunnel vision we did with Peppers, it'll be a wasted down every time and it puts our pretty skilled backup QB in risk of injury.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:39 AM ^
My problem is that any safety or linebacker worth their salt is going to know that the first QB MUST lateral to the second QB, otherwise he cannot pass it.
Me thinks this sets up Patterson sneaking out for a long pass on the short hash.
But this all seem seems overly complex for a team that out talents 91% of the teams they face.
It’s seems to be fools gold.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:55 AM ^
And why risk a QB getting injured as a WR when we have 3 future NFL receivers to play with
September 4th, 2019 at 11:24 AM ^
Yep. DM doesn't protect himself when he runs either.
September 4th, 2019 at 11:40 PM ^
Ageed. If we're going to use a 2 QB package I would prefer to see Milton as the 2nd QB. He is as athletic as the other 2 and may be a better runner/receiver than either. It would also diminish the risk of injury to the #1 and #2 QBs and get Joe some PT, hopefully helping avoid the dreaded transfer portal eventuality.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:37 AM ^
Bingo Smith
September 4th, 2019 at 10:16 AM ^
Generous of you to give Gattis the benefit of the doubt with the Pepcat package.
September 4th, 2019 at 12:17 PM ^
Exactly right. It was a waste of a play and risked injury to your supposed star player. Peppers wasn't Woodson, so he looked mortal on every play.
And with this, why on God's green earth would you risk losing your back-up QB, especially when your starter looked less than stellar again and was injured during the game? Yes these guys know more about football but they know jack sh*t about risk.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:35 AM ^
I think that package was so poorly executed that we can't say anything about it besides... it was really really poorly executed.
Maybe it will be awesome once everyone does what they're supposed to do.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:35 AM ^
We say this every year under Harbaugh when a new gimmick package gets rolled out and nothing more ever comes of them.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:19 AM ^
The issue isn't the idea that they're trying new things. I'm good with that, fine. But the team that performed crisply in the no-huddle with very little issue regarding who goes where at most other points of the game, including the 2-minute drill, looked like it didn't know what to do at all on any of the 2-QB package plays.
The problem is that you need practice time to set those things up, and there is only so much time available. The question is, how valuable are well-executed 2-QB packages compared with just using that practice time for base stuff?
I like the idea. I think Michigan has guys that can produce some interesting looks. But if it takes too much time to develop, it might not be worth it.
We'll see.
September 4th, 2019 at 1:46 PM ^
Yeah, it was obvious presnap that the 2 QB plays hadn't been practiced much. Too much hesitation and confusion. Obviously they weren't a high priority in camp.
It makes it hard to know how effective they could be. I hope not to see them again until they've at least had time to run them properly.
September 4th, 2019 at 11:09 AM ^
Honestly, how many great inventions started with cock-ups? Pretty much all of them.
September 5th, 2019 at 6:19 AM ^
We all started from a cock up.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:05 AM ^
Hey who knows, smarter football minds than most of us have calculated and taken the history of speed in space into consideration, and expect good things. Several other plays didn’t yield great yardage on a given down. I’ m staying tuned in.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:50 AM ^
Nearly every legendary coach has found the 2 QB to be junk science.
Sans alabama, who I suspect could score with a reverse punter fumblerooskie.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:06 AM ^
Brian said it well on the podcast: if McCaffery was quick and shifty and not just straight line fast, this would make more sense. As it is, we have way better athletes who could run a jet sweep or flank out at receiver. Unless there is a double pass, which teams are obviously expecting, I’d rather just have one QB out there.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:39 AM ^
I think they are setting up a quadruple option, but just did not want to put it on film yet. The QB will make a read for the hand off to the jet sweep. In either case, there will be a QB getting the ball with a run-pass option, speed option, or some combo. It could also be that they want to put the running look on film to better sell the RPO going forward.
September 4th, 2019 at 11:06 AM ^
i agree with joey. i think the game planning for ohio has started, and this is part of it. it is a 'dead leg' to get the bad guys to spend time on it and think they have it figured out. and then we throw the triple-lindy at them on 11/30.
or its really bad play calling and wasted plays....
September 4th, 2019 at 9:38 AM ^
The threat of pass is what theoretically buys back the drop in athleticism from the 2nd QB vs a WR. It can keep LBs from crashing the LOS and DBs stay in coverage a beat or two longer instead of coming up in run support.
I do agree they need to tailor it more to McCaffery's top end speed and not so much asking him to juke a guy in the backfield.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:42 AM ^
Completely agree that McCaffrey's long speed is what we want to exploit... a fake end around that turns into a wheel route up the sidelines, or sends him up the seem... could be glorious!
September 4th, 2019 at 10:20 AM ^
The end around would be a great read for him when combined with a TE pulling around on an arc block look but releasing downfield (kinda like his rushing TD). If the safety takes the TE in coverage turn the corner and run, if the safety comes up to stop the run, lob it over his head.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:52 AM ^
This! Dylan can run but he isn’t Hurts with the football in his hands.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:15 AM ^
Nothing in what you've provided indicates one way or the other whether our offense will have 2 QBs on the field at the same time going forward. You're speculating based on.... well, nothing really.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:22 AM ^
Please note that OPs account is 2 weeks old.
September 4th, 2019 at 11:18 AM ^
Your account is five years old! Zing! (I don't get it.)
September 4th, 2019 at 6:13 PM ^
You get it.
September 4th, 2019 at 6:38 PM ^
September 4th, 2019 at 8:25 AM ^
I wouldn't say I'm of a fan of the 2-QB Package at all, but I definitely believe it could be effective. I'm sure Gattis and Harbaugh have more up their sleeves with it, and Patterson and McCaffrey are dangerous enough to do damage in multiple different ways.
Personally I'd just rather see McCaffrey get a little more action as the lone QB on the field.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:30 AM ^
After watching Hurts run last weekend, I can see how Alabama was successful with the 2-QB package. I don't think Dylan has the same "wiggle" as Jalen.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:58 AM ^
Dylan can run...but Hurts is built like Eddie George! He can run around and through people if needed. So the 2 QB look at Bama presented different challenges for defenses.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:33 AM ^
I like the idea of having two QBs on the field in general - just not the way it was done last week (lining up as WR).
September 4th, 2019 at 8:34 AM ^
Hard to call this his "obsession" seeing as we have only seen Gattis call plays in 1 game for us...but it never fails.. unsatisfied MI fans create their own narratives to fit things they don't like about the program.
If the 2 QB system is going to stick around I hope we can use if effectively rather than being the obvious gimmick play like we have seen with McDoom jet sweeps, and the whole Pepcat package.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:35 AM ^
"Shown the entirety of the package" made me giggle.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:14 AM ^
It was just the tip.
September 4th, 2019 at 11:14 AM ^
I just wish they could have more than one ball.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:36 AM ^
My 2 cents based on nothing at all:
- This is part of a package, and there are a lot of things that can be done with two mobile QBs on the field at the same time. There are numerous plays in the package.
- 1st game of the season they introduced the package, but only with the most vanilla and basic plays. They are playing "rock".
- Gattis and Harbaugh believe that the other plays in the package (scissors and paper) will be more successful, but they aren't breaking them out until an opponent with a pulse.
- They have sunk costs already and don't want to waste those.
- This reminds me of the wildcat formations with Peppers. I hope it's more successful or we cut our losses earlier.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:46 AM ^
“They have sunk costs and don’t want to waste those”
if this is true, then Harbaugh has a serious misunderstanding of the term sunk costs.
Also, jalen hurts is 10x the rb of either McCaffrey or Patterson, which I think is part why a package like that would be more effective there, not because we just haven’t thrown out scissors to the Ds paper
September 4th, 2019 at 9:27 AM ^
I am not sure about that really. McCaffrey is not a running back in "stature" but that kid has wheels. Hits the edge about as fast as anybody since #16.