WTKA Roundtable 5/27/2021: They Like Things Quiet Comment Count

Seth May 27th, 2021 at 11:31 AM

Thing discussed: The university’s report and recommendation that Fielding Yost’s name be removed from Yost Ice Arena, and the history of racism at the University of Michigan.

  • Panel: Mostly fine with renaming the building, think it’s a small gesture and the story is much larger, involving most of those in power at the University of Michigan and other institutions around the country before, during, and after Yost’s life.
  • Seth: Racism is quiet. It’s not about smoking guns and bad actors—it’s a culture that puts the feelings of racists over equality and a system of keep things “pleasant.”
  • The “Moral Map” standard versus the reality that of Michigan’s 103 building names, all but one—the William Trotter Multicultural Center—are named for white people. Trotter’s lesson: You have to agitate.
  • Craig: We should be celebrating Black athletes of Michigan's past. They were great, and ignored. 
  • Seth: 13.5% of my graduating class in 2002 was African-American; the last class was 4.4%.
  • Report issues: Didn’t talk to the experts like John Behee whose information was used. Craig: It read less like a history and more like a legal brief, and he was really bothered that it made Gerald Ford out to be a hero. Willis Ward does not support that story.
  • Seth: Michigan was different from other schools because they had protesters against sitting their Black player. Yost hired Pinkertons, who found three leaders of the protesters whom President Ruthven dismissed.
  • Brian: Doesn’t that disqualify him from having a building named for him? Seth: Sure, but it’s a small part of a much greater system that’s still in force today.
  • Sam: Highlight the student response. Highlight history. Discusses historical events of attacks on Black communities, and their resonance in events today.
  • Seth: Example of Belford Lawson Jr. (read the article here). Same movements we have today. Same reactions we have today.
  • Sam/Seth: History of Ocoee Massacre on Election Day 1920 in response to Black registration to vote, and how these stories are not told, kept quiet, specifically because they resonate with the same issues today.
  • Michigan must teach this part of their history—name of a building is such a small part.You have an opportunity here to apply some function by teaching people, and open up the conversation again to real changes. Do more than being symbolic.
  • Seth: Story doesn’t end with Yost. Crisler’s Quota system is visible in the team photos.
  • How far does it go? Seth: If we just draw the line to people who had major campus protests against them you're fine.
  • Example of resonance: Tulsa Massacre was about Black community having money. Today this happens.
  • Sam: It's not about individuals--it's about how these events resonate with what happens today.

[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]

You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.

Segment two is available here. You can also watch the video here:

THE USUAL LINKS

It wasn’t just about that racist incident; it was about what that incident represented historically.

Comments

g_dubya

May 27th, 2021 at 3:25 PM ^

That's classic!  You never looked to see if someone responded but went ahead and claimed no one did in furtherance of your disingenuous argument.  And then to claim that considering mooseman's reponse a response means I am in the Klan?!? 

Disingenuous, bad faith arguments all day long from you.  Not one bit of substance.

mooseman

May 29th, 2021 at 7:57 PM ^

The response was obviously showing my disregard for their/your position.

A legitimate protest might involve, I don't know, maybe a march with signs expressing that you disagree with the university's policies. It wouldn't be an insulting demonstration belittling 400 years of oppression that also degrades your fellow UM students.

wolverine1987

May 27th, 2021 at 2:23 PM ^

Why? We exactly should the percentage of AA graduates from M be at their population percentage? Why can't they (hypothetically) be 20% at one school and 5% at M? I think it would be nice, if the rates were higher. But unless you truly think M is discriminating against AA students, and wants the percentages to be low (which is simply ludicrous and can't even be taken as a serious argument) they are what they are. 

jbrandimore

May 27th, 2021 at 2:29 PM ^

Part of the laziness exhibited by the bureaucrats is they are too lazy to calculate a number, share how they calculated it and justify it.

Way easier to just make an automated work free/brain free system that no one is quite sure how it works or is responsible for justifying or explaining it.

wolverine1987

May 28th, 2021 at 11:43 AM ^

"Do you think perhaps there may be some historical, systemic reason the rates of AA students graduating are low?"

No. Not one single thing, not one. And Seth's example shows that--much higher rates of AA achievement 20 years ago thnn now. "Historically" yes. Since 1980? Nope, flat out nothing. As I said originally, anyone that thinks M doesn't do every possible thing they can to attract and grad more AA students is simply blind and a partisan to their bubble view. 

Gobgoblue

May 27th, 2021 at 9:40 PM ^

Take out the HBCUs and see how plausible that hypothetical there is bud. 
 

Anyway, the population percentage disparity gets trotted out because, if all things were equal, wouldn’t you expect about the same percent between college grads and population? If I were to roll a die a thousand times, wouldn’t it be strange if the number 1 only came up 4% of the time? 

Gulogulo37

May 27th, 2021 at 10:36 PM ^

That was surprising, but then I also thought it's surely not just similar demographics but fewer black people. How many more overseas students attend Michigan now compared to 25 years ago? Probably WAAAAY more. If you look solely within US citizens attending Michigan, I wonder if the percentage of black students is roughly the same as it was in Seth's time. Maybe that's something that should be changed though.

EDIT: Forgot about the affirmative action case. Also, not as many foreign students at UM as I thought. It's 15% now.

santosbfree

May 27th, 2021 at 12:31 PM ^

Seems like the last thing we need is an invited panel of all white people - people who did not experience racism on campus - talking about what we ought to do about the legacy of racists at Michigan. I certainly don't think anyone wants to hear another talking down to from Seth, the amateur moralizer of MGoBlog. Maybe the roundtable needs to take a few months off until we can get back to Brian not caring about football again.

Sambojangles

May 27th, 2021 at 7:16 PM ^

You must have not noticed that Sam Webb, the host, is Black. Also, this is one hour of the many he spends on air during the week. He has probably spoken to Yost and the accompanying issues with others while on air, but since they don't feature the mgoblog writers, they are not featured on the website.

Also, Seth got the majority of the airtime, by my count, and he's Jewish. It was particularly relevant when he brought up that the student agitators who were found to lead the movement in favor of Ward and against Yost were Jewish. Yost sent the Pinkertons to find them and Ruthven kicked them out. That's just as relevant to him as the anti-black racism on campus. 

lhglrkwg

May 27th, 2021 at 3:23 PM ^

  • Seth: 13.5% of my graduating class in 2002 was African-American; the last class was 4.4%.

 

Damn. Anyone know what's caused this generally speaking?

imafreak1

May 27th, 2021 at 3:30 PM ^

I am no expert but the timing of this Supreme Court decision is either totally coincidental or involved in the shift.

Gratz v. Bollinger, 539 U.S. 244 (2003), was a United States Supreme Court case regarding the University of Michigan undergraduate affirmative action admissions policy. In a 6–3 decision announced on June 23, 2003, Chief Justice Rehnquist, writing for the Court, ruled the University's point system's "predetermined point allocations" that awarded 20 points towards admission to underrepresented minorities "ensures that the diversity contributions of applicants cannot be individually assessed" and was therefore unconstitutional.