WTKA Roundtable 5/25/2023: Get an MBA and Walk Around Looking Cool
Things Discussed:
- Shemy: They had two months to do a cursory vetting. Harbaugh was trying to do a thing for Bo.
- Problem in coach culture that they feel the need to find everybody a job.
- Problem in Michigan's athletic department that they don't have enough attention to detail.
- The lesson isn't just check what you say in public; check some of these ideas when they're on their way into your head.
- NOTE: I erased a short bit where the panel got the Schembechler son mixed up; Matt is the one who made dubious claims re: Dr. Anderson.
- To be clear, it was hundreds of likes of racist ideas, not just one tweet (though the one tweet was very bad), and once they were public it would have been a major issue for Michigan, which is in the PR business.
- In the break Brian explains how Twitter works to Craig.
- The Big Ten's contract situation: How did Kevin Warren screw this up so badly? Guy sold the rights to a game he didn't own, and promised night games in November—what was his job other than to know these things?
- OSU is going to host a night game vs MSU on November 11 (Michigan had the IU game just as late in the year).
- MSU is going to move their last home game, vs Penn State, to Ford Field on Friday night—MSU season ticket holders must be pissed? Seth: MSU's last home game is usually empty and miserable anyways.
- November night game solution: USC and UCLA can play them at home.
- And they're paying a search firm to understand if they need to pay him a bonus for a contract he didn't complete when his contract didn't say he gets one, why, because Delany got one? Brian: Executive culture is messed up—these guys are all replacement level.
- What's the fallout? Sam/Brian think Michigan didn't have any concessions; Seth thinks MSU horse-traded their Senior Day at Ford Field and a night game at OSU in return for an easier schedule when Michigan is going to get USC. We figured that would happen anyways.
[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]
You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.
Segment two is here. You can watch the video here:
MGoBlog Roundtable https://t.co/JTiGjRqP9h
— Sam Webb (@SamWebb77) May 25, 2023
The Usual Links:
- Helpful iTunes subscribe link
- General podcast feed link
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Direct download link (right-click/save as)
- What's with the theme music?
It's a never a good sign if you're thinking about an executive and you're reminded of a scene from It's Always Sunny.
"In the break Brian explains how Twitter works to Craig."
I'm not kidding when I say that this is the content that I come to this blog for.
Do you have the time stamps for that? Would like to hear Brian's take, especially after last night's. . . festivities. Was in SF and listening to one. . . angry person's story a month ago, and really want to hear all sides.
Probably showing my age here, but you know what I don't understand?
Tumblr.
Like, I literally cannot follow anything on it. A very plausible explanation is that I'm not smart enough to understand it (or many other things in the world), but part of me believes that it's automatically incomprehensible to anyone over the age of 30.
I thought Tumblr went away when they banned nudity? Does it still exist?
on some levels. this is a great way to kill some time:
At what point in podcast does the Shemy & twitter likes discussion end? Asking for a friend who would like to skip over that.
understand it's the slow season, but the intro music really screams: don't listen to this!
28 mins
how could you not like the Michigan Replay theme?
Love the replay theme - brings back memories of Sunday mornings.
Podcast has it slowed down to half speed
This is letting Jim off way too easy. We're going to be backfilling for his mostly identifiable political tendencies forever, I suspect. I don't think we need political tests to choose sports coaches; I like him, and am gratified by his success. His views on reproductive rights, for example, are his to have, as with anyone. Moral or political purity tests, either side, are crap. But looking for moral leadership or expertise from people who are good at one thing, sports, often doesn't work out; both Jim and his boss made lousy excuses for Bo. We've had creepy stuff with guys praying, and this impinges on the program itself. Let's remain up front about these things, if possible.
EDIT: Kevin Warren is a schmo; pass it on.
creepy stuff with guys praying
Don't remember this, what's this referencing?
Postgame group prayers and the question of whether non-Christian players were comfortable with them. That's got to be kept from the locker room. Three generations of believers in the separation of church and state in my family did not go to Michigan so that we could turn into Clemson.
Wow, the pregame prayer at the goal posts with about 98% of the team must drive you absolutely bat guano crazy.
No, I'm a pretty rational being. But I'm against it. And think it's probably illegal. If Carl Cohen, founder of the ACLU who taught the brilliant Logic and Language course at Michigan for decades were still around, I'm sure he'd take up the cudgels.
We're very clear at this stage, XM, from what side of the political tracks you hail; that you would elliptically go to bat for the likes of Schemmy. . . no surprise atall. Btw, guano capitalism is one of the highlight lectures in my North American environmental history course, in case you ever want to sit in.
It’s not illegal, keep up on your US Supreme Court law. That Washington State high school football coach’s case was right on point.
you seem extremely upset and it is very apparent in your strident, hyper-defensive posts here. That would include you lumping me in with some other person or thing I don’t have a clue about. Try to have some self-control and , failing that, maybe get some emotional help.
and living on a working organic farm like we do, we have mountains of guano. Let me know if you need more.
EDIT/Link to case here for anyone interested: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/21-418_i425.pdf
This current Supreme Court is a shit show and it is unsurprising that they would try to erode the establishment clause BUT this actually does not make on field prayers legal. It allows prayer by coaches in private/isolation.
read the decision. it hits on the free-exercise and free-speech clauses, too, and those are just as significant. it was mostly a 6-3 decision. also, the praying was in the middle of the field. and very importantly (at least to me), non-compulsory.
the michigan players gather at the north goal posts every home game and pray. guessing they do something similar on the road. i think someone a few months ago also posted an article about a michigan player of the jewish faith who didn't kneel and pray, but was very supportive of his teammates prayers.
I was only pointing out the case does not protect team prayers. It protects an individual coaches right to pray. I am surprised they went with free speech since limiting a location (football field) is not considered a limit on speech.
Also, I am not sure why you mention 6-3 as if it is relevant. If you follow the Supreme Court you would know it has been stacked with 6 conservative judges so this was a party line vote.
For Michigan specifically, if those players are gathering of their own volition and are not being led by employees there shouldn't be an issue. Although, I do think we need to be careful about using "so and so is Ok with it" as a defense since there are many situations where people will simply not speak up to avoid backlash, et cetera.
Didn't you hear? They are forced at gun point to kneel and pray whether they want to or not.
There it is. Like clockwork .Disparage the Supreme Court because you don't like the decisions upheld per the the Constitution. Justice Thomas must drive you batty.
Yeah, if only it was liberal, than it would be great. lol.
No, Melanin Deficit, I'm just making my points. "You seem extremely upset" is just projection; we know your trajectory at mgoblog. And anyone who defends the current Supreme Court. . . has made plain his politics.
If you're producing bird or bat poop through organic means, you really are magic; you should patent your procedures.
hey, i found the racist. fwiw, i'm betting there's a lot more melanin in my house than in yours.
it was a 6-3 decision on the coach case. today's striking down of the EPA overreach was 9-0. you going to complain about that one, too?
and we got birds, hundreds of birds. and we got cattle. and sheep. a number of mgobloggers have been here to see them. so yeah, we got lots of guano. my friends from downstate bring their pick-up trucks to the farm and i will dump a front-end loader or two of it for them to use in their gardens. it is natural magic.
cheers.
We know your story, guy, and the deceit that accompanies your name. BTW--you might be interested--I conducted a nationwide study of Black farmer attitudes to organic gardening for the USDA (was co-PI). Conclusion: It was a white farmer luxury that most small Black farmers could not afford. The pursuit of food sovereignty, the ability to access land and grow for their communities, was a bigger priority.
I happen to have a mixed race adopted child myself, and have noted your efforts here. I have seen how it's possible to do so and remain profoundly racist, to visit quite a lot of garbage on one's children. There's a reason why the Black Psychologist's Association opposes the adoption of Black children by white parents.
Guano's the stuff that comes from the birds.
you are clearly a miserable, unhappy, racist. i'm saying that not to pick on you, but to hope that you recognize that and take steps (more steps?) to get past that. i have to imagine your list of grievances and causes is substantial and your emotional upset about them is likewise tremendous. good luck.
Saying the decision on the Clean Water Act was 9-0 either means you don't actually know what the decision was or you are being quite disingenuous. While it was 9-0 on the specific wetlands being discussed, the limitations to the definition of covered wetlands was 5-4 with Kavanaugh writing the dissent joined by the 3 liberals. And the 5 who made the change argued that 'adjacent wetlands' was too vague a term and they effectively rewrote the legislation to say only wetlands with a continuous surface connection are covered.
As Kavanaugh writes "But again the Court is imposing a restriction nowhere to be found in the text."
For all the carping about judicial activism from the right, it is consistently the right that uses the Courts to rewrite legislation they don't like.
So yes, everyone should be complaining about this decision.
Kavanaugh starts on page 68 and Kagan has some choice words for this starting on page 62.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/21-454_4g15.pdf
"So I’ll conclude, sadly, by repeating what I wrote last year, with the replacement of only a single word. “[T]he Court substitutes its own ideas about policymaking for Congress’s. The Court will not allow the Clean [Water] Act to work as Congress instructed. The Court, rather than Congress, will decide how much regulation is too much.” Id., at ___ (slip op., at 32). Because that is not how I think our Government should work—more, because it is not how the Constitution thinks our Government should work—I respectfully concur in the judgment only." - Kagan, Sotomayor and Jackson
I agree. I am a believer -- in both senses. I have deeply held religious beliefs while simultaneously embracing a deeply held belief that church and state should remain forever separate.
The University of Michigan football team is now considered "state"? I mean I'd vote for them in a second but I never really knew others saw them as a governmental body. Seriously though, why does this bother you?
Unless one of the players complain that lack of participation in their prayer group results in some form of retaliation by coaches or even other players (like they do at Clemson), I'm at a loss to see where this is a problem.
Of course they are part of the state. That's why we can FOIA them and know what Jim Harbaugh's salary is.
I thought the "University of Michigan" part was a clue. Silly me!
/S
that's probably not happening.
you're talking about athletes who have been soaking into some form of "coach [insert name here] is your daddy when daddy ain't here" for most of their lives...and they know that the coach can cut playing time if he thinks they're not "all in," whatever form that takes.
expecting them to speak up against the religious leanings / exhortations of said coach just isn't likely. better to put up and shut up.
That's the thing. If you're not a member of the U.S.A.'s dominant religion you might have a different belief system. You'd be taking some risk by openly putting yourself in opposition to the coach, even if it's not strictly sports-related.
I don't know the details of UM's ritual. If it's a "Let's have a moment of silence in the manner to which we're accustomed" kind of thing, then it's in a category separate from, well, Dabo.
Put yourself in someone else’s shoes and it’s not that hard. Just an ounce of imagination as to why that would make someone comfortable. I believe you can do it.
I don't care about post-game, or pre-game, group prayers. That guy in Oregon (I think) a few years back, though, was pseudo-demanding that his players join him. That's where I draw the line. You don't get to demand that I - or anyone else - join you in prayer just so they get playing time.
I know the Bible (and the Koran, for that matter) tell you to proselytize, so go ahead and ask if I want to join you. If I say no, you've still done your job - now go away. We can both smile with the query.
Didn't supreme count just rule postgame prayer constitutional under the 1st Amendment? Not sure what kind of prayer they say in the Michigan locker room, but prayers don't have to be offensive to other religions or the atheists. My wife and I are non-religious and we raised our kids the same way. They went to christian schools and never complained being uncomfortable in such situations.
Respectfully, your anecdotal take cannot serve for everyone, right? That's one of the logical fallacies that Cohen addressed first :). (See comment above.)
It did not. It simply stated that a coach praying by themselves after a game is constitutional.
https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-coach-prayer-2981a8073ea82a1a688c367270c941aa
he had students joining him. and if you read what justice Sotomayor wrote, the sticky point of the case was about the students.
He did have students joining him but the school made him stop and he complied. He then would go to center field after the game to pray in "private" but not with students, which is what the court protected. It was a limited the decision but could set dangerous precedent. Here is a different AP article if you'd like more info.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-supreme-court-coach-prayer-schools-602630743738
Let's look at an excerpt from the official guideline from the current administration on this issue.
"Although a government may not promote or favor religion or coerce the consciences of students, schools also may not discriminate against private religious expression by students, teachers, or other employees."
And if you read the lines between Justices' arguments in Kennedy vs Bremerton SD, the whole point is whether his action was private or coercion.
Yes praying. So freaking creepy!!!! Lol is this Ace’s burner acct?
As they said in the podcast, this went beyond politics. Shemy was making blatantly racist, transphobic, pro-Jan 6, etc. tweets. Those things are political, they are bigoted
Clearly. Talking about everything but the fact that he's a nasty piece of work is kinda like slapping Disney for being woke when you're pissed off that they offer spousal benefits to gay partners. Every civilized person in American is okay with that, so you have to do an end-around.
How dare they pray. You don't get much "creepier" than that. lol.
Craig Ross with the “once again I’ll be in the minority here, but this is an absolute non-story”
🙄
99% chance UM plays USC the next decade more times than OSU/MSU combined.
>>> Kevin Warren
It's crazy that Shemy actually lists the Asst Dir of Football Recruiting position in his LinkedIn profile. Both as a job entry (for one month) and in his bio:
Mr. Glenn “Shemy” Schembechler serves as President of GES Advisory Company. Mr. Schembechler has spent the majority of his life and professional career in the football industry, growing up as the son of legendary coach Glenn E. “Bo” Schembechler. Overall, he has spent 20 years evaluating talent for highly successful programs:
• University of Michigan, Asst. Recruiting Coordinator
• Kansas City Chiefs, In-House Scout
• Chicago Bears, BLESTO scout
• Washington Redskins, Midwest and Northeast Area Scout
• Seattle Seahawks, Southeast Area Scout
• Las Vegas Raiders, College Scout
The University never even announced that he was hired.
I agree with Craig. Shemy is a non-story. All will be forgotten as soon as Warde hires Kanye West as his replacement.
I enjoy Craig's involvement with this site and the roundtable but save me with this "it's a non-story" and "the University of Michigan probably did nothing wrong here" rationalizations. You hired a guy for a VERY public-facing position in the recruiting service and a cursory review of his public twitter account showed a bunch of racist, xenophobic, transphobic, etc. likes. Even looking past the politics and all that, the fact they hired this guy and didn't do this level of due diligence is a black eye. Harbaugh they his political leanings, it was apparently known around the athletic department, and while that's not a crime it can absolutely limit his ability to do his job. The school should have done this type of check and they didn't, and whether or not that's standard operating procedure or not (some poster hear provided solid evidence that athletic departments don't do such a search) that doesn't mitigate the fact they screwed up.
There are a lot of coaches out there and they most of them have failsons and fuckups in their orbit who they feel some weird debt to protect, and yet you don't see them get hired, then exposed, then fired in a week. They have guardrails in place, and if Harbaugh felt some duty to Bo then hire his dipshit son for some office job, some non-public facing duty where he gets $100k to, I don't know, polish the Bo statue and talk on the phone to the over-60 set who donate money to the school. But this was a screwup by Harbaugh, by Warde and the AD's hiring process, and admitting that doesn't make you a bad fan or "in the minority". Hell, if you are hell-bent on hiring this idiot then at least have him clean out his Twitter likes beforehand; nobody was paying attention to this guy's account anyway so I doubt it would have even been a story. It's a base level of competence that wasn't meant, and that's why it became a story big enough that ESPN and the Athletic got to write articles about it and put on their front pages.
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