2000 northwestern
2009
greg robinson disease
jourdan lewis
jabrill peppers
this week's obsession
duncan robinson
james whitley
i blame everything on whitley
jabrill peppers hovers

This Week’s Obsession: Back FROM the Future Comment Count

Seth

The Question:

Taking an old question in reverse: Choose one current Michigan player whom you'd like to take back in time and have him play for a former team?

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The Responses:

David: I think I would put Zach Werenski onto the 2010-11 Michigan Hockey team. 

After Brandon Burlon's injury before the tournament run, freshman Kevin Clare was pushed into Michigan's 3rd defensive pairing...which ended up turning into playing mostly just five defensemen.   After the Tiny Jesus show against North Dakota in the National Semifinal -where Hunwick made a whopping 40 saves- Michigan was just gassed going into the Title Game.  It showed as M took twice as many penalties as Duluth did.  Hunwick played amazing again, but the team was chasing play most of the time.  If you put another NHL first round defenseman on that team and Clare isn't forced into action that might have been a little above his head -or if thy could have rotated through 6 blue-liners more confidently (Clare did have 2 of M's penalties)- Michigan might have been able to stay out of the box more and conserved energy, etc, etc.  Not to mention adding Werenski's offensive prowess...he already has 4-8-12 in half a year, this year.  Would it be a slam dunk?  I don't know...but I would take another shot at that game if I could get it...

Option #2 (if its allowed): Trading Senior LeVert for Freshman LeVert in 2012-13.

Option #3: Adding Peppers/Lewis to the '06 football team...but would either of them (or anyone, for that matter) keep their feet on that hideous Columbus sod??

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[After THE JUMP: we debate which team would most benefit from #HoverPeppers]

Seth: I'm taking Lewis and I'm putting him on the 2000 team. I thought about '99 because if you give them someone to match up with Plaxico Burress and not let [edited] Kurt Kittner get just enough that team is in the national championship vs Florida State. But Tom Brady's Orange Bowl season is worth preserving.

The next year however could have been a national championship team too. We lost to UCLA when Henson was hurt, let Drew Brees come back, and of course couldn't stop Northwestern's spread. Among my friends the former two of those losses solidified our opinion that Whitley was at fault.

image

This was 3rd and 5. Whitley overran, slid right by, and M gave up a TD.

In the last, Michigan actually got a few stops when they went to a three-man front and ran something very close to Bo's old 5-2. However, as we learned since, Carr and his staff didn't want to stick with that alignment because it was putting too much pressure on one cornerback in particular (not Todd Howard, who had a great game).

Trade Jourdan Lewis for James Whitley, and Michigan wins two and perhaps all three of those games, makes some of the others not even close,  and then we get to see what that OL, Terrell, Walker, A-Train, and Drew can do against Oklahoma.

 12866798825_1c722bbaad_k
Like this except taller. [Proto Robinson photo by Eric Upchurch]

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Brian: I kind of want to put Duncan Robinson on the national title game team, just to see what happens.  Does Kenpom's computer explode? Do people playing the "not just a shooter" drinking game die en masse? Does Michigan shoot 50% from three for an entire year?

Ace: Damn, you beat me to that pick. I blame Kareem Walker.

Brian: You did not attack this TWO with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind and have only yourself to blame.

Ace: Fair. Skipped my glass of whole milk this morning.

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Adam: Breaking Kenpom's computer has high entertainment value, but I'd take Jarrod Wilson and put him on the 2009 team. Mike Williams struggled in a way few have during Michigan's late-season slide; he posted negative total UFR numbers against six teams that season, including -6 vs. Iowa, -12 vs. Illinois, -4 vs. Penn State, and -2 in that miserable loss to Purdue.  This wouldn't mitigate the garbage tornado of non-football issues swirling outside Schembechler Hall, but having a wonderfully boring free safety would have definitely gotten Michigan the win they needed for bowl eligibility, and possibly one or two more. I'm pretty sure a few extra wins in '09 drastically alters what happened from 2010-2014.

Seth: Until GERG makes him a Spur. I mean he had boring safety Thomas Gordon on that team.

David: But as a true freshman

Adam: I'm trying to fix things, man. I thought we got to slot guys in where we wanted. I don't want to leave Wilson's fate up to the guy who watched Cissoko get burned over and over and over and was like "meh, he'll be fine."

Ace: The bigger question is: why, exactly, are we trying to salvage the 2009 team?

Seth: That’s easy:  Brandon Graham. If Michigan ever gave that guy like 1.2 seconds of coverage to get to the quarterback instead of 0.2...

Ace: No one man has all that power.

David: There is a great video of him rushing the court and jumping around after we beat Duke in 2008

Ace: …maybe they go 7-5?

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​(still Ace): Anyway, my choice is to take Jabrill Peppers and deploy him as a spread-killer in 2007, which I seem to remember being foiled by the spread but for some reason my brain is blocking out any further details.

BiSB: Jabrill against Troy Smith would have been nice.

Ace: Who? (But, yeah, at the very least that should prevent The Horror.)

David: Would any defender have been able to keep their feet on that grass?

BiSB: Jabrill hovers.

Ace:

20942063249_b0c9f98242_k

BisB: True, but '07 was destined to be meh. He could've made the difference in '06.

Ace: Very true. Answer amended to 2006. Hopefully he decides to come back to school in 2007.

Seth: Nah, they win the National Championship in '06, Carr retires as planned, everyone heads to the NFL, Michigan hires the best available option which is probably that dour guy at Cincinnati whose name is apparently as hard to spell as Cincinnati, and that guy gets buried under the negative press of transfers and misbehaving players and a B.S. practice time scandal that wasn't really his fault. Marv Dantonio washes out at Michigan in 2009 and is remembered as football's Ellerbe.

Ace: *D'Antoni

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Adam: Transitioning from Bizarro World but sticking with the topic of 2009, I want to fix that team because if that season goes differently I think Rodriguez's tenure does as well (assuming he gets rid of GERG), and I just want to see the offense that S&P and FEI loved so much with a pretty good defense. Long story short I'm re-reading Three and Out and I'm mad and what better place to be mad than the Internet. Then again, this Harbaugh thing does seem to be working out pretty well.

Comments

Tacopants

December 17th, 2015 at 4:22 PM ^

You'd think that Les Miles would have been the slam dunk hire. And if you're not stingy (apparently in 2006 this meant $200K/year) on hiring his coordinators maybe both his OC (Jimbo Fisher) and DC (Bo Pelini) make the move to Ann Arbor as well.

Typing that out just made me sad.

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Toasted Yosties

December 17th, 2015 at 4:54 PM ^

been a destiny changer for Michigan. I see things the way you do. The momentum that Bo started back in '69 was still alive in '06. If Miles took over after Carr steps down, we'd likely still be riding that wave. Thankfully, Harbaugh is starting his own momentum that, I pray, will carry for decades.

Why is transition so hard in college football?  I feel like Texas is going through with Strong what we went through with Rodriguez and Hoke. They had a nice transition plan in the works with Muschamp, but he got antsy after a season or two as coach-in-waiting. In hindsight it's easy to say that it would have been good for Brown, and Carr, to step down a year earlier than they did, but no one is going to force them to, or else face the wrath of fans (see LSU and Miles this year). Have any teams successfully pulled off a transition from a tenured legendary coach to a coach-in-waiting?

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enlightenedbum

December 17th, 2015 at 5:52 PM ^

OSU got wrecked because their LT got utterly destroyed all day.  We had Jake Long.  And USC beat us because they decided to never run and took advantage of our thin secondary.  Florida was OK in the air, but did not have the talent USC had.  Both Big Ten teams have better chances if those matchups are flipped, I think.

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AeonBlue

December 18th, 2015 at 10:10 AM ^

I would argue Michigan's gameplan in that Cap 1 bowl against Florida was altered because Carr knew his replacement and ran as close to a spread as he knew how (more 3-4 wide sets than previously seen). Michigan won that game in large part because Florida was completely unprepared for what Michigan showed them. Henne attempted 39 passes for 373 yards, both season highs.

I'm not sure Michigan has that same gameplan in the 2007 NC game so I don't think the transitive property applies here.

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Lumpers

December 18th, 2015 at 3:30 AM ^

THink about Carr's last bowl game in the Citrus Bowl....i was there and saw how the FLA fans said we had no chance, ESPN fan poll had "90%" of America picking FLA to beat us in the citrus bowl...and then we proceeded to kick their ass....if not for Hart's 3 fumbles in the red zone this was a 60+ to 30 ass kicking vs a 2 score win for Michigan. 

Each game is unto itself and there is no transitive theory in CFB.  This would explain why M could kick the living shit out of every team in 1986 and lose to Ricky Foggie and Minnesota on Senior day....everyone said M had no chance against Mr righteous, Mr perfect heisman winner and we ran his ass all day and he cracked....M got healthy and with a killer LT, Henne back, Hart back, Mario and Arrington, we took it to 'em...

If we beat OSU in the Cesspool in '06, i truly believe the National Championship game comes down to the wire, no matter who we played....

 

 

 

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Reader71

December 17th, 2015 at 5:22 PM ^

If Carr wins and retires, what changes? He still had a voice in the hiring process, and he used it to say, basically, "Anyone but Miles." If he actually retired after another championship, he may have had more power and used it to say, "Mike DeBord." I think it likely that DeBord would have given us 5-6 underwhelming years. Probably no 5 win seasons, but probably no nice 2011, either. He's fired and Harbaugh is in here anyways.

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Reader71

December 17th, 2015 at 5:29 PM ^

I actually think you still end up with Hoke. The hire was roundly praised by old lettermen, and we don't really know how comfortable Hackett would have been hiring an outsider. Thankfully, he didn't have to. What's interesting is considering how Hoke's tenure would have gone with Hackett, who said himself that he would have liked to help Hoke along the way. Funny thing is either way, I think we end up with Harbaugh sooner or later, which is a wonderful part of having had such a great coach play for us.

Joined: 08/30/2009

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ST3

December 17th, 2015 at 7:21 PM ^

The 2010 defense gave up 458 points. All six losses were by double digits. I don't think replacing Obi Ezeh with Desmond Morgan or Cam Gordon (-11.5 in the MSU UFR) with Jabrill Peppers makes a difference. If I can make both changes, maybe they win another game or two and RRod saves his job for another season. Then would he get credit for the 11-2 2011 season, or would the team finish 8-5 that year because they didn't have Brady's golden poo to save them?

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schreibee

December 17th, 2015 at 4:56 PM ^

And Rocky Harvey had about 200 yds rushing vs '99 Illini too - and don't forget we lost to Staee in a shootout as well. That D was not a NC D, much as I loved Sr Tom Brady!

Is the working theory here that no matter what year we transport Jabrill to he fixes everything?

How did he not make more of a difference vs osu this year then?

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Wall

December 17th, 2015 at 4:40 PM ^

Yea no telling where this team goes if we grab a more por-style oriented coach after lloyd. Were there other replacements that could have been promoted within?  I was only 15 at the time so I don't really remember who else was on the staff with Lloyd.

Joined: 09/08/2014

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alum96

December 17th, 2015 at 4:52 PM ^

Mike Debord - so no. :)

Ace wrote a great piece on Carr's lack of coaching tree last summer.  A good coach for us but that was not a strong suit.   Harbaugh is the antithesis.

It was a weird search in 07 - rich rod sort of came out of nowhere after Miles fiasco, Schiano stuff, and Kelly was too inexperienced and "all about Brian Kelly".  I guess in retrospect Kelly with Mallett would have been solid but Kelly just didnt seem like a guy to gel with UM admin.  That was basically your realistic group of guys.  Tedford was apparently a "big name" back thhen too but I dont remember him being heavy in the mix?

http://www.maizenbrew.com/2007/12/10/01934/153

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WWTSD

December 18th, 2015 at 10:33 AM ^

He's won 3 national titles total.  You wouldnt take a national title and 49-4?

I get all the talk.  His Florida teams were a bunch of criminals...........Maybe so, but that seems to have continued after he left too, if you look at some of the arrest records.  Maybe it's a Florida thing more than a Meyer thing.

I'm guessing he might not have learned his work/life balance at that point so that might have been an issue still.

However, I know for a fact you'd love him if he was your coach.  That's kind of how sports works.  Especialy when said coach is 49-4 with an NC in 4 years.  Hell the other 3 years he was a bowl ban (Stupid Gene Smith move who should have self imposed the year before) and 2 games away from NC's or playoff berths the other 3 years.

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gbdub

December 17th, 2015 at 10:12 PM ^

I don't know, Brian Kelly was basically a less experienced, more abrasive RR. Bad cultural fit, new offense. Probably would have worked out better, but not great, and hard to predict before hand.

More interesting is the hypothetical where Lloyd retires in '06 and we grab Dantonio. He couldn't play the underdog schtick, but otherwise could have been a good fit.


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drjaws

December 17th, 2015 at 9:08 PM ^

I'd put Woodson on the 2006 team. I think taking away the pass game completely with Leon Hall, and Woodson also on offense with Breaston, Manningham, Tabb and Arrington would have changed the OSU game and made Harvin a non-issue. M wins natty.

OSU had 316 yards and 4 TD in the game.



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wolfman81

December 17th, 2015 at 11:34 PM ^

...and my take:

that whole debacle was 90% on Martin + Carr + Mary Sue, and only 10% on RR.  GUYS IT'S CALLED MENTORING.  New Assistant Professors get 100x the amount of mentoring that RR got.

#fact

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MGoPoints: 2078

Seth

December 18th, 2015 at 8:05 AM ^

Head footbal coach isn't a professorship though.

Rich Rod:

  • Hired Shafer, who clashed with Gibson, and then RR supported Gibson over the man he put in charge of the defense
  • Hired GERG and told him to run a 3-3-5
  • Left Michigan zero OL in two classes.

He gets a fair share. Much more than 10%

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georgetm2000

December 18th, 2015 at 7:58 AM ^

What I remember most about 2006 is that I wanted mostly for Carr to replace Herrman and DeBord as coordinators. I didn't want anything drastic like a coaching change. I am not sure if Carr's loyalty prevented him from doing that but those guys were horrible in my opinion. DeBord I believe had just come back from a winless season at CMU (I think). The other thing I remember about that year is that for the bowl game (and maybe this was a rumor) but that DeBord consulted an NFL coordinator and had a whole mess of new offensive wrinkles and plays. Florida wasn't ready for it b/c UM had never run that before. It might be interesting to see a UFR on that game and to compare it to what UM typically did that season.

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Needs

December 18th, 2015 at 10:58 AM ^

Carr had already replaced Herrman with English between the 2005 and 2006 seasons. It was a wild soap opera. English briefly took a job coaching the Bears secondary before Carr lured him back by offering him the DC job (and helping Herrman find an NFL landing spot).

If it happened now, it would have broken the Michigan interwebs.

A journey back to the haloscan days when the headlines were in unreadable highlighter yellow...

http://mgoblog.blogspot.com/2006/02/ron-english-may-possibly-be-defensi…

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