He's all happy he's got his blackshirts back. [Patrick Barron]

Neck Sharpies: Finding Lou Holtz Comment Count

Seth September 26th, 2023 at 9:00 AM

With Michigan's non-conference schedule behind them I thought we'd look ahead to their next Big Ten opponent, and their interesting defensive system. Nebraska's new defensive coordinator Tony White runs a Rocky Long 3-3-5. We've come across this defense before—even installed a version of it 14 years ago. A different branch of it is the basis of the TCU and Ohio State defenses that felt frustrating to play against despite Michigan putting up loads of points in those games.

The Nebraska edition—the 3-3-5 stack—is about as pure of a 3-3-5 as you're going to find in today's modern, Everybody's Multiple age. And it's hard to argue with White's results with it thus far. Bill Connelly has them 28th in defensive SP+ this year, up from 61st in 2022. They're already up to 14 sacks after finishing with 21 and 20 the last two seasons, and are holding opponents to just 5.02 YPA (sacks included) passing and 3.32 YPC (sacks removed) on the ground. In their four games, the defense should have led to a victory at Minnesota, kept them in the Colorado game, and defeated a pair of G5 teams despite offensive struggles.

Where's this coming from? Everywhere.

[AFTER THE JUMP: Stack is back]

THE BRIEF HISTORY

According to Chris B. Brown of Smart Football, who wrote an article about this in our 2010 Hail to the Victors, the 3-3-5 Stack (or 30 Stack)'s origin story has two acts. That history is helpful in understanding how it works. The first was Joe Lee Dunn, who hybridized a 3-4 defense to frustrate the Run & Shoot offenses of his day at Memphis and later Mississippi State and Arkansas.

Dunn was a young DC at Memphis and was about to play USC without enough defensive linemen. The plan was actually more of a 4-3 philosophy—meaning everybody in the front has one gap to defend. But really he came to it by working backwards from his problem:

  1. Replace a defensive lineman (expensive) with a safety (cheap, readily available).
  2. Have a LB aggressively shooting the gap that the defensive lineman used to be in.
  3. Have a DB aggressively replacing the spot where the linebacker used to be.

They're the same picture.

His pressures and run fits were the same, but what he lost in size Dunn won back in the fact that his linebacker-DL could appear in any gap, and this screwed up how blockers prefer to react, messed up run angles, and took away pre-snap reads, which are quite important to gap defenses that often decide where to attack based on the defense's alignment. If you're the right guard and have a defensive tackle lined up on your right, you think to set the protection or the downblocks rightward so you can block him. If you're that same guard looking at a 3-3-5 pre-snap alignment, how are you supposed to figure out that the Spur is replacing the SAM who is coming to your right?

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Another thing it messed with, Dunn found, were the base assumptions that offenses were drilling into their quarterbacks' heads. Every play looked like a light box pre-snap, and like a weird blitz post-snap. If you were an offense that checked into run plays that attack open gaps you'd find yourself running into a hard node. If you were an offense that threw at the pressure, you'd be constantly throwing at zone defenders replacing the guy the pressure was coming from. It was doubly effective against the era's passing attacks. Run & Shoot offenses liked to use running backs as receivers to stretch coverage responsibilities. But faced with more complicated pressures, they found they needed to keep the RBs in the backfield as blocking wild cards. As offenses converted RBs to blockers, the linebackers who used to chase them into the flats could find other ways to be useful.

The second evolution was under Lou Holtz and Charlie Strong, who used it to turn around South Carolina. Holtz had a hard enough time getting Bob Davie to come run his 3-4 system at Notre Dame; when Holtz took the job in Columbia he hired former Irish DL coach Charlie Strong. They inherited a Gamecocks program that had won a single game in two seasons, and didn't have enough defensive linemen either. But what they did have was a big nose guard who could demand doubles. Strong took Davie's 3-4 philosophy, where the defensive line two-gaps their opposites to keep LBs clean to flow behind him, and incorporated it into the 3-3-5. He also added all kinds of stunts.

This amplified the number of ways the defense could attack. Offenses wouldn't know who's two-gapping or attacking any given gap. Power running teams found it especially frustrating because the gap they thought they were cracking open would often turn out to be filled with blitzballing linebackers. As Dunn developed his system he had incorporated hybrid players and different ways to take advantage of that hybridization, but philosophically he was always trying to get back to ways of running his system with lighter players. It was Strong who really leaned into a new, Stack-specific philosophy of "Anyone Could Be Anything." He would bring seven or just three, and kept meticulous notes on how defenses reacted to anything he did so he could find ways to "cheat." Dunn's defenses were always sound; Strong's defenses would leave you a badly defended gap or a cornerback in an impossible conflict in order to overload how he thought you were going to react. Good luck finding it.

As other teams adapted Strong's concepts they found different ways they could exploit this. For example Jeff Casteel, then Rich Rodriguez's DC at West Virginia, was the first to realize he could use a quicker, tiny MLB and have him line up further from the line of scrimmage. If it won't trigger you, here's a video by Casteel that explains how they ran it against different fronts.

Meanwhile Dunn had passed along his system to his former New Mexico DBs coach Rocky Long, who installed the system at Oregon State and UCLA in the 1990s before becoming New Mexico's HC himself for most of the aughts.

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If Dunn is the 3-3-5's inventor and Strong was the guy who made it commercially viable, Long was the guy running the R&D lab for the next two decades at UNM and as Brady Hoke's DC then replacement at San Diego State. Long adjusted the system to RPOs by having the MLB drop back even further—almost a third safety—which he called The Aztec(<—Ian Boyd's must-read article on this from 2017). This was initially a way to play a Dantonio Quarters defense without putting his safeties in can't-win run/pass conflicts, but it adapted well to the 1-high looks that most 3-3-5 practitioners prefer.

With Long for all these stops were his lieutenants Danny Gonzalez and Tony White, until Gonzalez took the DC job at Arizona State under Herm Edwards and brought White with him. White became ASU's DC in 2019 then got the same job at Syracuse. When White went to Nebraska, his old mentor Rocky Long replaced him at Cuse.

PHILOSOPHY: BE HARD TO READ INSTEAD OF HARD TO MOVE

Here's Dunn describing the defense (via Jack Harris of Sundevil Source)

"We had undersized defensive linemen, so we converted our speed into the strength of our defense and pretty much our gameplan was to fire in all directions and then let nothing over the top in Cover 3. … People think of it as a defense to defend the spread attacks, but in reality it was a defense to attack pro-style offenses with undersized defensive players."

The thought process here is if Power run schemes are particularly lethal because they take advantage of the offense's advantages in strength and size, smaller defenses can make up the difference by using their speed to close down open space when it appears. DTs who can get blown off the ball by double-teams are more likely to be slanting away from those doubles (see the DE on the bottom hash in the gif above from Boyd's article), or else a linebacker buddy is about to show up next to them to make those singles, adding his movement towards the line of scrimmage to the force equation.

One of the reasons it's so effective is the blocking against this defense is so different than what linemen are used to. Those guys are used to seeing anyone on the line of scrimmage as an immediate threat, and anyone backed off as a problem to be dealt with as he comes. As a result the offense often expends too much effort moving out the few DL and are out of resources when the guys off the line suddenly engage.

Having watched Michigan run Duo for two years you see the nose getting comboed around and think the defense is in trouble as soon as the MLB picks a gap. The MLB has a gap, however. He's already heading towards it. The WLB isn't because he's got to watch the backside, but he's also unblocked so he has the leisure to wait out the handoff then clean up.

But it's the constant guesswork of who's going to appear where that really replaces raw physicality as the determiner of play results. Here's an example from the Colorado game where Nebraska put three down linemen on the line of scrimmage then saw their nose blown way off the ball by a double. Your brain interprets that as a play that should get 6-7 yards. It gets only a couple.

Why? I mean, they RPO'd the LB on the bottom, so there are just five guys for five blockers and a running back.

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Except the DE on the top isn't coming where he's expected to be. By diving inside the B gap he's got the left tackle all discombobulated. The WLB is probably intending to scrape around the back of there, but because the LG is focused on him he's not turning around to stop the DE from getting into the backfield.

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A moment later the double on the nose has blown that guy well out of the gap. But the MLB behind him is playing off of the nose's result. The NG doesn't have to hold up—just slide over a bit and keep the RG occupied while the MLB slips down into the run gap.

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Even with the other DE (on the bottom) getting well kicked out and the nose now firmly inside the hash mark, the MLB has a pretty clear path to come down and thwack the RG and force this back to where the backside DE is coming through.

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The RPO'd guy is never relevant. The nose and the bottom DE getting moved out by their blocks are never relevant. What's relevant is nobody blocked the DE on the top, and there's no way to escape him because the MLB could come down. The WLB is now on the top of the formation, protecting the backside edge from a bounce.

As for the linebackers hanging back, well, the OL are free to release on them, but fair warning: they're quick as cats, and as hard to corral in space. The advantage gained by having those LBs way off the line of scrimmage is they delay decisions. They're harder to pass against, but also harder to read for optioning purposes. Here the 3-3-5 swallows a zone read that's supposed to put the offense +1 in the box because Shedeur Sanders can't figure out if he's reading the WLB or the WDE.

The other thing about this defense is it's deceptively aggressive. They *look* passive because they're hanging off the line of scrimmage, dropping eight, etc. That's mostly a lie. Nebraska will stack the line of scrimmage and play Cover 1 or Cover 0 often. They will also threaten blitz then use their defensive backs to aggressively attack your quick outlets. Colorado got caught in an RPO here because they were certain this Spur is going to going attack off the edge, leaving the WR room underneath a CB who's got to stay high.

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Then everybody but three rushers drops back, which hard enough to throw into. But the real problem for Colorado here is the cornerback isn't bailing deep like he should if it's Cover 3.

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And since this was an RPO, the blockers are in no position to deal with the DE on the top, who gets a free sack on a three-man pass rush.

Disguising coverages isn't the main reason this works. The Spur wasn't deep enough to pick it off until late in the progression. The problem Sanders ID'd was the cornerback didn't even drop to the sticks and then started driving, so any throw completed is going to be immediately swallowed for no gain. The CB can play that aggressively despite help from the Spur down in the flat because he knows this play isn't going to last long. They know they have the QB thinking about quick pressure and finding the hole in the defense, not dropping back and surveying.

I figure you've got a good enough memory of the Fiesta Bowl that I don't need to show you how aggressively TCU was flinging linebackers into gaps despite showing a passive 3-3-5 front before the snap. Here's a pleasant memory that makes the point. Note that the safeties are also stepping down to provide a second wave, essentially playing linebacker. The safety's tackle attempt on Edwards here was at about the 28 yard line; had he connected it's a 3-yard gain.

HOW DO YOU BEAT THIS STUFF?

The 3-3-5 is designed to force offenses into low-success-rate football. Offenses predicated on moving the ball consistently find this infuriating because it forces them to go hunting for big plays. The tendency—and I fear this is what Harbaugh wants to do—is to get "Big", bringing in more linemen, tight ends, and fullbacks to increase the gaps the offense can threaten. The thinking goes if you complicate everything for the defense they're going to have to either commit more linebackers and safeties to gaps they're not big/practiced enough to fill.

The problem with that approach is it just gets the 3-3-5 to act even weirder. They thrive on hybrid players flying to the ball, so if you allow them to add more guys to the box you increase the ways they can confound you. If an opponent is determined to play rock-paper-scissors, you have to do so as well.

The trick, if you ask me, to beating these defenses is to punish their aggression with big plays. Remember this DE who slid inside the left tackle?

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Well if they want to spill while the help is engaged inside, run out the backside,

…or just run it outside (though Nebraska isn't TCU in this regard; they stopped a 4th & 3 jet sweep in this game).

If they're showing blitz then bringing three, protect, read, and wait for one of their hybrids to lose one of your specialists.

If they're hammering down on quick throws like this CB…

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Put the quick throw downfield.

Colorado had a tunnel screen that should have been a touchdown when it caught Nebraska blitzing…

And Michigan put one of these on tape against Rutgers despite not running one since 2015 according to our charting. That's a weird thing to prepare for Rutgers, which plays a lot more man defense than Michigan's other opponents in September. But if you think back to 2016, Luke Fickell's response to Don Brown's five-man pressures was to run tunnel screens from all kinds of looks, forcing the defense to leave guys in the middle of the field they'd rather be blitzing.

It's a fair bet that Nebraska's new defense is preparing to frustrate the hell out of Michigan at home. Most likely they're burning all kinds of practice time right now on ways to confound the Wolverines' multi-TE sets. Hopefully Michigan is practicing ways to maximize the damage when they win their guessing and execution games. Given Nebraska's offense is leagues behind their defensive renaissance, one good half should do it.

Comments

yossarians tree

September 26th, 2023 at 9:22 AM ^

This was the game I've been circling as a trap since I saw the schedule. Lincoln will be at a fever pitch for this one. I might watch on record after I know the outcome. And yes, I am a coward.

yossarians tree

September 26th, 2023 at 9:49 AM ^

First time I did this was actually the '21 OSU game. I was so nervous that I declined all watch party invites and stayed home and cleaned my basement starting at noon. It wasn't until I got a text from a friend saying "Hell yes!" at about 3:15 that I figured it was safe to check the score. This game at Nebraska I'm more worried about my frustration and blood pressure because I think it's going to be a tough slog figuring out that defense for a bit.

Jonesy

September 26th, 2023 at 4:42 PM ^

This is what I do except I try to take the temperature of the board to figure out if we won or not without seeing a score or knowing anything about how the game played out. I don't want anything spoiled except the fact we won, lol. I always watch the OSU game with my parents and '21 was the first time I got to talk my mom into agreeing to this approach.

lilpenny1316

September 26th, 2023 at 11:08 AM ^

I can't believe I'm saying this, but Rutgers is a better team than Nebraska. We return a veteran team that won in Columbus last year, so I think the road jitters won't really be there. 

Despite all of that, I've felt like this game is the one game that could stop us from getting to November undefeated. At some point, Nebraska is bound to have stupid luck go in their favor. I hope it's not this week. 

NeverPunt

September 26th, 2023 at 11:54 AM ^

While I appreciate Seth's breakdown as it's a thing of beauty, I'd hold off on the this defense is going to cause us nightmares concern.

Nebraska has played four opponents to date. La. Tech and NIU are 111th and 121st in SP+ - aka BAD. Minnesota and Colorado are 54th and 79th in SP+ - aka middling.  Those are their overall rankings. By far the best offensive SP+ ranking was Colorado, who on offense is checking in at 58th in the country.

Colorado, while entertaining, is not very good. 58th is still meh for an offense. Keep in mind that 66th or worse is the bottom half of the country. NIU's offense is 128th (out of 133 teams) La Tech's is 84th and Minnesota is 87th. And how did Colorado and their middling offense do? The Buffs put up 454 yards of offense en route to a 36-10 victory against this defense.

So concern? sure. But let's pump the brakes a bit. Michigan ranks #1 overall in SP+ and 13th offensively. I think we'll be fine.

dragonchild

September 26th, 2023 at 10:09 AM ^

I like Seth's style of starting by painting a flattering picture, but ultimately this feels like, Dale Gribble's not a strong guy so he resorts to pocket sand.

Yeah, if you're not ready for it you lose.  Even if you know it's coming, you're still forced to deal with it.  But when ambush and trickery are all you've got, you can't hold ground with a conventional defense because the entire reason you're resorting to ambush and trickery is you don't have the beef to fight a pitched battle.  I get that you don't want to run out 10 OL because that plays into their hands, but you can force the issue by running plays that punish shenanigans.

JHumich

September 26th, 2023 at 10:10 AM ^

I like that this gets to be a test run against "Ohio but tougher up front and less athletic in the back"

If we can get the blocking and the play calling going in the run game, the dress rehearsal will definitely translate. 

Montana41GoBlue

September 26th, 2023 at 10:17 AM ^

We managed to score on TCU (eventually) and of course Georgia throttled them too.  Plenty to learn from to be successful against NEB.  Will be interesting to see how Nugent handles this game and how he grades out. 

I expect our D to give up more than the usual 7 pts this time out, however should still be a comfortable win after all is said and done!  

My prediction:  Mich 34 - 13

PopeLando

September 26th, 2023 at 10:19 AM ^

I have a similar fear for how Michigan may be preparing for this.

When TCU rolled out their defense, it took an entire half before Michigan opened up. 

Ohio State’s “only 5 big plays!” is funny sour grapes, but it’s also got a kernel of truth: Michigan wanted to ground & pound that game. OSU’s defensive philosophy WORKED for a good long while until we started punishing it. And as soon as we could, we went back to ground & pound.

If we screen Nebraska to death out of the gate, I will have my crow with barbecue sauce and Zehnder’s chicken seasoning. But I don’t think that’ll be Harbaugh’s Plan A. Nor Plan B.

I anticipate a brutal UFR for our tackles

yossarians tree

September 26th, 2023 at 10:37 AM ^

Interesting you mentioned the tackles. There's a weekly YouTube video I like a lot with Chris Balas and Doug Skene who was an excellent OL about 20 years ago or so. Big surprise they really concentrate on the OL play and running game. It's pure Michigan football talk in that way, and also what we all obsess with on here.

Anyway, Skene's strong take is that Michigan needs to go with their best 5 and get some continuity starting NOW and that means Henderson at left tackle and Barnhart at right tackle. He likes Jones a lot too but thinks there must be something limiting him like lingering injury or something. And Harbaugh said in his press conference that Hinton is now "working through something" so I would not be at all surprised that the coaches have also come to this conclusion. Nothing like Michigan OL intrigue!

PopeLando

September 26th, 2023 at 12:14 PM ^

It was. And it famously described Denard’s elbow injury that Hoke ignored until it became a serious problem. By the end of his Michigan career, Denard Robinson could not throw a pass.

I will forever despise Brady Hoke for how he handled injuries. And for those who say “well, Denard could have chosen to come out”, think about Hoke’s first words when discussing the Shane Morris Fiasco (paraphrasing): “Shane’s the starting QB at Michigan; if he didn’t want to be the starting QB at Michigan, he could have gone down.” Or his words to Gardner re: the foot injury: “I don’t want to know.”

I’d MUCH rather have an ambiguous “he’s working through something” which is being taken seriously vs. the VERY infantilizing “boo boo” which means “this has been ignored as long as medically possible”

COLBlue

September 26th, 2023 at 10:39 AM ^

Seth - glad you mentioned other running plays that could potentially work, because if it just meant using the pass game to beat this type of defense, Saturday's weather projection threatens to cause havoc with that (hot and very windy, with a decent chance of rain)...

Denarded

September 26th, 2023 at 11:00 AM ^

A feather in Michigan's cap is their OL is nowhere near the disaster that Colorado is 2nd-worst in the country with 23!!!! sacks given up through 4 games. Last in the country with 1.9 YPC!

Hoping that JJ gets a couple deep shots this week to start the game, then grind meat in the 2nd Half. 

blueheron

September 26th, 2023 at 11:33 AM ^

That was just one of many instances of managerial ineptitude by RichRod. All the internal resistance surely didn't help, either.

Also, triggering aside, I highly recommend watching at least two minutes of the WVU video. It features RichRod several days after his logical haircut date, mesmerizing graphics, and a frightened-looking Jeff Casteel.

Seth

September 26th, 2023 at 2:11 PM ^

So if you read the whole thing above, remember where I talked about how Jeff Casteel's contribution was to put in a 5'11/212 "linebacker" that they liked at MLB and have him dodge instead of take on blockers? And how this idea eventually morphed into the "Aztec" hybrid who aligns like he's in a Tampa 2 but still joins the box as often as not?

Well Greg Robinson went the opposite direction with his MLB. He lined him up right behind the nose, a strategy from the 3-4 Eagle defenses, with the expectation that the MLB could be the 4th DL more often. But this was so obvious to offenses that Michigan was just giving up a guy blocked two yards from the LOS with no chance to dodge it. It was, quite literally, the exact opposite of what you're supposed to do with your MLB in a 3-3-5 stack defense.

Maizinator

September 26th, 2023 at 11:16 AM ^

The clarity with which you explain these concepts is impressive as always.  You have a gift and as a fan, it is greatly appreciated.  It brings a whole new level of enjoyment to watching the game.

Hanniballs

September 26th, 2023 at 11:19 AM ^

Watching that 2017 clip gave me some serious nostalgia. I think it's the only time in my memory where on a down to down basis, I only watched the nose tackle just so I could see Hurst rip through the line on practically every snap. Just an absolute cheat code with his first step.

MGoBlue-querque

September 26th, 2023 at 11:33 AM ^

Thanks for the 3-3-5 history lesson, Seth. Living in the 505 and halfway paying attention to the Lobos has given me an affinity for Rocky Long. I had high hopes for Danny Gonzales to make UNM somewhat interesting as a program, but that hasn't materialized yet. 

brad

September 26th, 2023 at 11:44 AM ^

This was all fantastic, the lineage and history of schemes is always interesting to me.  But I have to give particular thanks for the One Good Half conclusion.  How right you are.

EGD

September 26th, 2023 at 12:13 PM ^

Would another way to punish a defense for running a 3-3-5 with undersized players be to just run the ball with IZ and OZ instead of gap schemes? As the article makes clear, it's more challenging for OL to block athletic defenders in space but at least they can't confuse your assignments so easily.

I don't imagine M was repping zone runs for fear of Nebraska but you never know what you're going to get in the post-season. 

4th phase

September 26th, 2023 at 12:42 PM ^

After the ECU game, I said that based on TCU, more teams were going to try a 3-3-5 against Michigan because of how it confuses their power running game. And how ECU was having some success with that strategy. Got negged and a bunch of people said it had nothing to do with the defense and was just about how many men were in the box. Well I feel a little vindicated by this Neck Sharpies and I'm here to gloat. 

 

Also, outside zone is a natural counter to the 3-3-5 and may be why they were working on it. You dont care as much about guessing which defender has which gap, because you are just blocking whoever shows up where you are.