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MGoPodcast 15.3: The Ledge People Comment Count

BlueBarron September 18th, 2023 at 7:00 AM

2 hour and 10 minutes

The Sponsors

Thank you to Underground Printing for making this all possible. Rishi and Ryan have been our biggest supporters from the beginning. Check out their wide selection of officially licensed Michigan fan gear at their 3 store locations in Ann Arbor or learn about their custom apparel business at undergroundshirts.com.

Our associate sponsors are: Peak Wealth Management, Matt Demorest - Realtor and Lender, Ann Arbor Elder Law, Michigan Law Grad, The Phil Klein Insurance Group, Winewood Organics, Human Element, Venue by 4M where we recorded this, and The Nose Bleeds, which is the Sklars Bros’ reboot of Cheap Seats on UFC Fight Pass.

1. Offense vs Bowling Green

Starts at 1:00

At least everyone else in the country played the same game this weekend. Allow us to talk you off the ledge! Let's talk about JJ's interceptions, the first one was probably a bad read into a zone. Take our word that this was a very visual segment. Should not be throwing to Cornelius Johnson on the 2nd interception. The third interception was maybe not a bad idea? It kind of feels like the program didn't take any of these non-conference games seriously. Run game ran a zone stretch for zero yards and then shelved it entirely. There's some concern that a lot of off-season time was wasted because a lot of transfers couldn't practice together and they're learning new material. They ditched outside zone and suddenly things looked better. Tight end blocking was pretty good. One nice thing about this game - it felt like Blake Corum is back! 

[The rest of the writeup and the player after THE JUMP]

 

2. Defense vs Bowling Green

Starts at 44:56

Connor Bazelak doesn't play, Bowling Green's 2nd string QB gets hurt, they play a 3rd-string walk-on for the second half and pretty much just mail it in. Not a whole lot to say otherwise, but they did at least try in the first half. Josh Wallace got beat on a play that should've been a touchdown. Shout out to Kris Jenkins for making the 2nd half far less annoying. We apologize for bringing up the 2005 season. 

3. Hot Takes, Game Theory, and Special Teams

Starts at 57:21

Takes hotter than the media maelstrom around Coach Prime. Please stop kicking it to the up-back, thanks. Interesting to see them go back and forth between Jake Thaw and Tyler Morris for punt returns. It feels like they didn't take these game super seriously and they used it as an opportunity to try new things, like outside zone. The discussion of the light show is pretty reflective of the overall fanbase. Stop buying Dr. Pepper to protest the abysmal number of college football commercials! Everyone switch to Phil Klein insurance because they don't advertise during football games! 

4. Around the Big Ten with Jamie Mac

Starts at 1:22:57

Rutgers - 35
Virginia Tech - 16

Rutgers has accomplished this with 46 passing yards! Virginia Tech has fallen on hard times, and Rutgers is 3-0. 

Michigan State - 7
Washington - 41

It was worse than this sounds. Washington set the record for yards against Michigan State in a game with 713. Michigan State had the opportunity to rally around their program here but they looked like they wanted to go home after the 2nd drive. Their offensive line is god awful again. 

Maryland - 42
Virginia - 14

This looked grim early when Virginia took a 14-0 lead but Maryland blew the doors open in the 2nd half. The Terps seem to have a functioning passing game. 

Penn State - 30
Illinois - 13

Penn State got most of their first half points due to Illinois throwing horrendous interceptions (Altmyer threw four!). This made it look like Penn State isn't going to be able to move the ball against Michigan much. 

Indiana - 14
Louisville - 21

Looks like Indiana has found their quarterback in Tayven Jackson (24/33, 299 yards 1TD 1INT). Indiana had a chance to tie it on the Louisville one yard line and couldn't punch it in. They've averaged 2.9 yards per rush between Louisville and Ohio State. 

Minnesota - 13
North Carolina - 31

Not sure if this changes much about what we think about Minnesota. Maybe their identity should be run-first but their offensive line is really struggling. PJ Fleck put in a true freshman at guard. Defense gave up 414 passing yards but did get two interceptions.

Nebraska - 35
Northern Illinois - 11

Nebraska's QB, Heinrch Haarberg, threw 24 times for 158 but also ran 21(!) times. Heinrich wasn't even on the travel roster last year. Nebraska's 3-3-5 will be interesting when they play Michigan because Michigan's answer to that is supposed to be outside zone and Michigan's scrapping it. Nebraska's still trying to get the Scott Frost out (they ran their first offensive play with 10 players) but they've still got some good players. 

Purdue - 20
Syracuse - 35

Purdue let Syracuse's QB go Denard on them. Purdue's defense is still a project and the offense is still very Purdue.

Wisconsin - 35
Georgia Southern - 14

Georgia Southern's quarterback turned it over six times! They actually outgained Wisconsin. Tanner Mordecai had a stretch where he completed one pass on ten attempts and then he turned it back on near the end of the 3rd quarter. Not sure what's going to happen in Wisconsin vs Purdue next week.

Iowa - 41
Western Michigan - 10

Cade McNamara was 9/19 for 103 yards, 2 TDs and 2 INTs, look what they've done to my boy. Iowa offense is in mid-season form. Iowa's starting tight end might be done for the season, so it's time for Erick All to step up. 

Northwestern - 14
Duke - 38

Ohio State - 63
Western Kentucky - 10

MUSIC:

  • “Quarry”— Wednesday
  • “Les Fleurs”— Minnie Riperton
  • “When the Morning Comes”—  Kalapana
  • “Across 110th Street”
THE USUAL LINKS:

It's a wet puddle that dried out, it's probably got some detritus in there. Like some smudge. 

Comments

maquih

September 18th, 2023 at 8:04 AM ^

I turned on the iowa game for a second, saw the oline fall over with Cade running for his life and turned that shit off lmao was just too painful to watch.

Joined: 11/04/2010

MGoPoints: 1780

VintageRandy

September 18th, 2023 at 9:17 AM ^

I think I might agree with Seth on the second interception. On rewatch it looked like CJ didn’t cut his route on time and if he had it would’ve been a TD. Agreed that it’s still the wrong read since Wilson is open on the right hash for a clear TD, but I’m more forgiving of JJ on that one. IIRC after that pick they showed JJ looking frustrated to Bellamy on the sideline like “hey tell CJ he messed up that route!”

Joined: 04/04/2019

MGoPoints: 7209

bronxblue

September 18th, 2023 at 9:27 AM ^

Maybe, but he still threw the ball short which allowed the trailing corner to get ahead of Johnson.  Maybe he didn't run the route fully right but there were still guys open that were better options.  Honestly, I'd have preferred he try to throw the ball deeper if he's trying to get it to Johnson, as that's a jump ball situation for a guy who is taller and jumps higher than the defender.

It was just a bad throw either way.  The third pick I'm more whatever as he was sorta throwing it away, sorta trying to throw it to only where his receiver could get it.  And given the game context he might have thought it wasn't a big danger either way.

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 171756

goblu330

September 18th, 2023 at 10:56 AM ^

I think that more than any particular play or any particular turnover, the larger issue is that Michigan’s offense just seems like a grab bag right now.  There is no theme.  I literally rolled my eyes at the flea flicker.  Yeah….. there is that play.  But, why?  There is no consistent offense that can be executed there without doing that?  Or there is, but hey we’re having fun here!?!

I just think through three cupcake games you need to have established what your offense is going to feel like from down to down and they haven’t at all.  I think JJs picks in this game were largely related to rhythm.  There is not a whole lot of rhyme or reason right now and he was just not comfortable.

Joined: 01/07/2022

MGoPoints: 32123

bronxblue

September 18th, 2023 at 11:03 AM ^

I thought the first two games had an offensive philosophy; they knew the opponents were going to try to stop the run so it went far more pass-heavy, especially early on, and they worked down the field.  They were also conspicuously trying to run outside zone, which probably isn't a good use of your available talent but was a coherent approach.

And on the first drive they ran the ball up the middle with Corum, then on an end-around with Edwards, and then on a read with McCarthy.  That's a coherent offensive approach.

The bigger problem with these cupcake games is that you aren't going to try anything interesting if you don't have to but you also may want to try out some new stuff because it's low-risk.  Their offense against ECU and UNLV was quite coherent and was actually a nice departure from the usual "we'll just keep running it because we're Michigan" approach they typically used (the one bad example of this was trying to get Edwards that TD against ECU).  This was just a mediocre-to-bad game from McCarthy that made it look worse than it was.  

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 171756

rc90

September 18th, 2023 at 11:37 AM ^

JJ threw it where CJ had leverage, the inside with no safety help. It was an NFL throw, much like the ooh ahh throw against UNLV. But CJ quit the route, and let the DB drift inside of him.

Yeah, sure, I agree, throw it to Wilson there. But CJ failed him there. OTOH CJ completely saved JJ's bacon on the awful flea flicker, so I guess the results based analysis lands in the same place overall.

Joined: 02/15/2016

MGoPoints: 8513

bronxblue

September 18th, 2023 at 2:09 PM ^

I don't think Johnson quit on that route; it was a bad decision by McCarthy and it seemed a bit underthrown.  We don't have the all-22 so I'd be interested to know what he saw there but even if it was an "NFL throw" it was the way more difficult one to make and considering he had already missed a wide-open Barner on the Wilson pick I'm inclined to believe he just missed Wilson and then tried to throw the ball into a bad spot.  Same with the flea-flicker, which was a terrible read and throw by him and Johnson saved it.

Maybe he whistles it in there but it's just as likely the ball gets batted away because the throw was going to be pulling Johnson away from the endzone.  I'd have preferred if he was going to Johnson to shoot farther downfield since it didn't seem like there was any safety help. 

 

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 171756

bronxblue

September 18th, 2023 at 9:31 AM ^

It was sort of a blah game that felt off from the start since it was a night contest against a MAC team.  I think they just messed around with some of the prep for these games because they didn't really care about the opponent, and that's sort of what everyone expected. Rutgers will be the first real sign for this team.

Wallace got beat on that non-TD throw but UM also got borked on those two long receptions that felt dubious (especially the latter), so whatever in my eyes. 

 JJ just had a bad game - it happens. No need for excuses, just learn from it and move on.  He's a really good QB and he's allowed to have a couple of off throws.

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 171756

Needs

September 18th, 2023 at 11:54 AM ^

I think it's a consequence of the third straight game like this with a veteran team. It seems like they know they won't challenged by their opponents and they're playing like that. Not exactly a reason to panic, but it also might suggest issues. 

I also wonder whether taking, and playing all the transfer Olinemen will be worth it in the long-run. Last year, taking Olu made a ton of sense given the lack of any experience or much time in S&C for either Crippen or Anderson. Was it worth it this year at center or tackle, though, particularly for the players coming up through the program? I could imagine some disillusionment for players in their 3rd year in the program if their path to playing time keeps seeing transfers in, particularly when playing well in the spring (which was true of both Crippen and Anderson). Nugent, from my very amateur perspective, hasn't seemed to provide that much benefit above the replacement level I'd expect either of them to provide. And it comes at the cost of having an experienced starter next year when the rest of the interior line will be being replaced.

 

Joined: 08/05/2008

MGoPoints: 11636

Yo_Blue

September 18th, 2023 at 9:59 AM ^

I didn't see replays since I was at the game, but it looked to me like the second interception was caused by JJ either getting bumped or not able to step into the throw with a collapsing pocket. Any truth to this? There was a dearth of replays on the board when there were bad plays.

Joined: 08/24/2010

MGoPoints: 102594

dragonchild

September 18th, 2023 at 10:21 AM ^

I'm not panicking over the picks -- they'll get their heads straightened out -- but I'm a tad concerned that Harbaugh will be back, look at four turnovers (and a couple more shouldas), and shove the entire offense back into a turtle shell.

Joined: 10/13/2011

MGoPoints: 60912

AlbanyBlue

September 18th, 2023 at 11:27 AM ^

This is the only point I really made in the offensive snowflakes thread. It's a bad game, OK fine, I hope we stay the course with the balanced offense.

But with Harbaugh back, and with the defense performing as it is, and with it being Rutgers (shades of 2021), I could see going back to a fair amount of bashing against the proverbial wall. Is that OK -- as in, will it beat PSU and OSU? This year, with the tackle situation, I'm not so sure.

Additionally, shelving the balanced gameplan tells JJ that the staff now doesn't trust him. He needs freedom against Rutgers. Now, if he throws two horrible INT in the first half, then maybe you re-think things. But otherwise? Stay balanced. That's a big offensive key for the season.

Joined: 09/11/2010

MGoPoints: 22043

mwolverine1

September 18th, 2023 at 11:47 AM ^

All 3 INTs illustrate why Harbaugh is so conservative in the passing game:

  1. This is a spacing concept in the red zone where spacing is tight. It requires precision placement and timing to get it right. We did neither.
  2. This is a one on one contested throw to a guy who wasn't expecting it with a throw that didn't optimize his chances. That's a catch with Nico Collins or is an incompletion with more loft.
  3. This is attempting to give your guy a chance. JJ missed the wrong way unfortunately resulting in a pick.

Joined: 11/23/2009

MGoPoints: 13592

LKLIII

September 18th, 2023 at 10:32 AM ^

Don’t think it was mentioned in the podcast, but Edwards (and to a lesser degree Corum), really seemed to struggle in pass protection/blitz pick up this game. The one big JJ sack that killed our chance to score at the end of the 1st half & also the 3rd JJ INT both seemed to be directly attributable to Edwards releasing downfield instead of picking up an obvious blitzer. 
 

I’m not an X’s & Os guy, so can somebody who is please chime in on two aspects:

1) Is this something new we’re asking him to do? If not, then is this something that’s always been an issue w Edwards? Or was this an uncharacteristically bad blitz pickup game for him?

2) I don’t know the responsibility breakdowns in this offense. Is it the RB’s direct responsibility to not only pick up the blitz, but to RECOGNIZE it ahead of time on their own too? (In which case Edwards needs to be more aware.) Or is it someone else’s job (QB, Center, etc) to call out a blitz, assign protection responsibilities, etc. pre-snap? (In which case maybe more of the issue is with either Nugent or JJ on the awareness/communication side of things.)  If it IS someone else’s job to alert the RBs about a potential blitz pre-snap so the RB isn’t caught unaware, then who is that on our team? Nugent? JJ?

 

 

Joined: 11/06/2013

MGoPoints: 8927

MGoLow

September 18th, 2023 at 11:05 AM ^

I'm also really confused about the offensive line. Is there anything from the insiders on why Jones and Henderson can't get on the field? Are they really that bad? Is Hinton just a practice superstar? I can't imagine the coaches aren't playing the dudes who are best in practice. 

Joined: 02/06/2013

MGoPoints: 2217

RobM_24

September 18th, 2023 at 12:59 PM ^

Call me crazy, but I don't mind JJ being aggressive. There's a line between aggressive and reckless, but he has to make some mistakes to learn where that line is. Doing that against Bowling Green doesn't bother me. Just like how the run game has to suffer while learning new blocking schemes, the passing game might have some ugly plays while the QB learns his limits.

Joined: 01/27/2014

MGoPoints: 63598

champswest

September 18th, 2023 at 1:13 PM ^

Small sample size, but this team does not appear to be as good as the last two years. The individual talent may be there to get us to the championship level, but it hasn’t come together yet. Especially the O line. Maybe BG is the wake-up call that was needed.

Joined: 10/04/2009

MGoPoints: 25921

jimmyshi03

September 18th, 2023 at 3:36 PM ^

I am happy we're passed the "Nugent will be like 95% of Olu" phase, but on the line, of course there's a step back. Three starters are either being replaced or being moved to new places. D line appears better, WR corps appears to be about 2021 level post-RB injury (mostly because its the same guys). Losing the Schoonmaker blanket hurts but Loveland is likely better long term. And I think this makes me appreciate Gemon Green a bit more. 

Joined: 08/22/2013

MGoPoints: 6198

Canciaro

September 18th, 2023 at 2:07 PM ^

Of course Brian and these guys would complain about the lights going on and off, typical MgoBlog. Also who cares about the photographers on the field, nobody cares about the pictures its 2023...

Joined: 10/31/2019

MGoPoints: 19