[Patrick Barron]

I Got Your Sign Comment Count

Brian October 20th, 2023 at 10:38 AM

Various thoughts on scandal-type substance du jour.

Nothing important will happen. The #1 rule of 2023 college football is "the networks are in charge." The networks would have a conniption fit if Michigan was barred from the postseason at any point, this year or next. They would savagely eliminate any athletic department that had the cojones to not play Michigan because they may or may not have their signs. Michigan is the only football program in the country to support a completely independent college football blog that isn't mostly clickbait garbage. QED.

Sturm und drang; the only meaningful impact here is that the Michigan program will be inclined to bounce any rubble they come across. Michigan's play here should be the Kansas play: cooperate. Very, very slowly.

The most likely explanation. Pete Thamel has a name: Connor Stalions, an analyst with the team. A post on our message board is unconfirmed but comes from a guy who's been around here for 13 years and sounds like a plausible explanation:

The staffer recruited a bunch of non-Michigan affiliated 3rd parties to attend games and record sidelines of future Michigan opponents. That's the so-called "vast network." Wait until the story comes out of how he recruited the "scouts." It's Bud Fox level hustle that would make Gordon Gekko smile.

Obviously he'll lose his analyst gig at Michigan and probably have a show-cause if he ever wants to get near a college AD again but he's 100% going to land a plum job doing corporate espionage work eventually.

The Michigan Difference.

I bet a dollar this is substantially correct.

[After THE JUMP: meh!]

I fundamentally don't care. This isn't baseball, where some guys banging trash can lids is a Stain Upon The Game. This is football. A few years back ESPN ran a piece on Mike Leach—then the Oklahoma offensive coordinator—planting a fake playsheet on the sideline before the 1999 edition of the Red River Shootout:

"That game might've been the most bizarre experience I ever had as a college football player," said Ahmad Brooks, a starting defensive back for the Longhorns. "I can't tell you how wrong we were in the first three or four minutes with every playcall we had. I've never seen anything like it.

"It was complete pandemonium, and it was complete confusion."

Everyone thought this was awesome, because it was. One reason that college football has not adopted NFL-style radios in the helmets is that some coaches like stealing signals:

Another concern among some SEC coaches wasn’t expressed publicly but has been suspected privately: Headsets would eliminate the ability to steal signals. The concept of stealing signals is an open secret in coaching, and some programs have elaborate operations.

I'm not about to put on a hairshirt if Michigan is the best sign-stealing team in America. Change your signs, dumbass.

I've gotten bent out of shape about a bunch of things but they're all things that make people's lives worse: Alabama massively oversigning before transfers were free; Michigan State blithely ignoring all the red flags about Auston Robertson; being forced to watch Rutgers play football. Being better at calling football plays than other teams does not rise to that level. .The Astros doing whatever they were doing is great and I hope they win the next 200 World Series. Opsec is important.

Nobody else seems to care either. JJ Watt and RG3 both said this was a nothingburger…

…as did 247's Bud Elliott:

Paul Finebaum, of all people, asserted on ESPN this morning that "If this had been someone else, this investigation probably would not have gotten to this point." The parties that do care are reporters desperate for clicks and rival fanbases who would like to cling on to a reason Michigan caved their heads in.

This is the best kind of scandal because it is deeply funny and does not matter at all. I mean:

Upon learning of the pending investigation, Michigan State initially warned the Big Ten it might consider not playing Saturday’s game out of concern for health and safety for its players, according to two sources briefed on those conversations. On Thursday morning, MSU confirmed it will play the game.

If there's a program in the M-MSU rivalry that should be concerned about the health and safety of its players because of the other team, it's not MSU.

The provenance of this and reporting on it is sketch. The first person to allude to this investigation was Ohio State insider Bill Greene of Buckeye Scoop, the site that was blackballed by OSU for paying a walk-on to give them access to internal Ohio State information. The message board rumors that started up a couple of days ago also came from OSU sources, which point's a big ol' finger at Ryan Day as the primary complainer. I do not believe the message board rumor that Ryan Day hired a private investigator to get at all this… but I kind of do.

This is also extremely funny, especially because I've got the odd Buckeye fan in my twitter mentions making ominous references to how this all started in 2021. DO YOU REMEMBER THE 2021 GAME? Michigan passed four times in the second half. OSU couldn't move the ball because Aidan Hutchinson was beating the ass of whoever he lined up over. Signals intelligence did not matter. 2021 may have been the game least likely to be affected by playcalls in the history of the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry. Call whatever you want, Ryan. It doesn't matter because Aidan Hutchinson is going to be beating CJ Stroud to death with the dismembered arm of the left tackle.

Then we have the Ominous Quotes. I'm not sure why Pete Thamel printed this unsupported accusation, but he did:

The allegations have rattled coaches and administrators around the Big Ten.

"This is worse than both the Astros and the Patriots -- it's both use of technology for a competitive advantage and there's allegations that they are filming prior games, not just in-game," a Big Ten source said. "If it was just an in-game situation, that's different. Going and filming somewhere you're not supposed to be. It's illegal. It's too much of an advantage."

"Rattled." FOH. Thamel goes on to detail Stalion's LinkedIn page, because that's a thing you do when you have a thoroughly sourced article. Brendan Quinn also has a dubious quote:

One source who was briefed on the allegation said Michigan is being accused of using a “vast network” to steal opposing teams’ signs.

We are legion.

Comments

stephenrjking

October 20th, 2023 at 11:22 AM ^

Actually I do seriously wonder about how deliberate Schiano was in the Rutgers game this year. Basically there was almost no data in the first half and Michigan frankly didn’t play that well and Schiano was very free with the “something’s not right” comment anyway.

Given his close ties to OSU and the general assumption that he’s one of the ones making a complaint, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he and Day traded notes. Perhaps he even deliberately kept his signals unchanged to try to demonstrate what was going on (what was the play the conference showed MSU that showed Michigan knew what was coming, anyway?)

None of this is unethical (certainly not worse than the alleged sign stealing) but it is funny and it does tell us the type of people complaining. 

bronxblue

October 20th, 2023 at 11:25 AM ^

There has been some reporting around this and Schiano's complaints were about the officiating.  Also, he doesn't seem like a guy who'd carry water for OSU and Day after they basically let him go following the 2018 season.  

I'm starting to believe it was mostly Ryan Day complaining from last year along with Bert.  Both seem the right level of petty.

DelhiWolverine

October 20th, 2023 at 11:56 AM ^

Sam Webb shared in an article today that he backchannelled this because he wondered the same thing, but info came back that suggests this was not Schiano. He mentioned that Day chose not to retain Schiano when he took over as HC and that there is likely some bad blood there and therefore no love/cooperation between him and Day.

M-Dog

October 20th, 2023 at 11:29 AM ^

I absolutely believe that Ryan Day paid a private investigator.  His job is ultimately on the line.  The "born on third base" comment really stings him, because he knows it's true.  He desperately needs to prove that he belongs, or at least come up with an excuse about why he's failed.  This is existential to him. 

jimmyjoeharbaugh

October 20th, 2023 at 11:01 AM ^

yeah i agree that this is all stupid but also it sounds like there's enough smoke that they actually did Directly Break The Rules No Matter How Stupid The Rules Are

that stinks because the ncaa will try to inflict pain on UM, and the other Rule is that The Head Coach Is Supposed To Be Aware of stuff so he will get in trouble too

guessing this also puts the contract extension on the backburner for a minute, which may be ryan day's ultimate plan, dropping this on the ncaa right when the contract was getting done, as a ploy to run jim out of town from frustration

IndyBlue

October 20th, 2023 at 4:51 PM ^

Does the new contract really matter though? If it was already signed, then this comes out and UM gets hit with penalties, the university would be able to fire Harbaugh for cause anyway and not pay him. That would, IMO, look worse for UM (signing a new long-term deal then immediately having to fire the coach ala Tuck Comin').

AFWolverine

October 20th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^

Just keep winning and the reporters will have to change their “intel.” Nothing cures rumors better than winning. Look at the Astros continued success despite getting caught. Great teams keep winning.

CTSgoblue

October 20th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^

I'm not sure I want to cooperate with how the NCAA has proven that it has a leak problem a mile wide...

"When you can ensure confidentiality of all matters and avoid making one-sided public statements about investigations, then we will cooperate."

MH20

October 20th, 2023 at 11:06 AM ^

Brendan Quinn has really gone downhill. He doesn't even write about football (almost entirely golf and boring, fluffy CBB pieces), but decides to pen that garbage. He worships Izzo and refuses to ask anything about the many scandals under Tiny Tom's reign.

bassclefstef

October 20th, 2023 at 11:06 AM ^

Where I get hung up on this whole thing is that I think a couple things can all be true at the same time- this Station guy getting some buddies to go watch a game for him sounds totally plausible, and I'm with Brian in that I just absolutely don't care, and I'm assuming that this sort of thing happens all the time. On the other hand, the thing that I'm concerned about is that the NCAA is going to totally roast us for this, because of course they're going to roast us for this.

stephenrjking

October 20th, 2023 at 11:06 AM ^

There’s a guy who got invited to go to the OSU-PSU game that posted a thread this week, and I’m going to alter my initial response with this addendum: 

He should go with a maize-and-blue T-shirt that says “I’m just here for the signs.”

It’s unclear to me how big of a deal this actually is and how much it has actually helped Michigan. In a world where Cam Newton was clearly recruited to Auburn through means that blatantly violated NCAA regs but hand-waved into a national title, where Bama players have been posting pics of themselves with nice cars from the same Dodge dealership years before NIL was legal, and where sign-stealing is a regular practice throughout the sport, it sure does seem like the public issue is more that it’s Michigan and Harbaugh than that it’s actually something unique.

Unlike others I’m no longer consumed with the idea of Michigan as a moral paragon, so perhaps it comes easier to me. Michigan worked hard to play by the rules for decades, lost ground to schools that did not work that way, and got mocked for it; now that they’re taking every inch of ground they can they’re winning and people are upset.

Oh well. I wish this weren’t a thing, but it is. There is only one option for the team:

Win.

If they were going to have trouble getting hyped for a game against Ryan cry-to-mommy-every-Day before because they’ve thumped him twice, well, maybe this will get the team excited. 

Win with cruelty. 

bronxblue

October 20th, 2023 at 11:22 AM ^

Absolutely.  It's always funny to me that for years people like Steven Godfrey would make fun of UM's holier-than-thou trappings and point out that UM was lagging behind everyone because they were dinosaurs.  And then UM started to actually play in that grey area where everyone else had long since blasted thru toward even more explicit "here's a bag of cash so come to my school" and "I don't care if you beat your wife because you can recruit" and suddenly they're the worst type of cheaters in the world and look at how holier than thou they used to be.

Michigan evolved, and they did so pretty well, to a degree that a bunch of programs that had already done so got scared because UM was doing it better than them.  That's what seems to bug them the most - Michigan was a sleeping giant and now they're awake and this fully operational battle station is blowing up planets with ease.  They're now a lot closer to what Georgia is, what Alabama was, and what OSU likes to think they are, and that's shook some people.

I fully expect UM to stumble at some point this year, maybe resulting in a loss or maybe just a closer-than-expected win, and these same goobers will come out to complain.  But none of it matters anymore.  Go for 2, sweep the leg, everything.

M-Dog

October 20th, 2023 at 11:40 AM ^

I always wondered what Georgia would look like if they started playing by the same rules as the rest of the SEC, post Mark Richt.  Now we know, and it is fearsome.

Teams like Ohio State are scared to death about what Michigan will look like if they start playing by OSU's rules.    

CompleteLunacy

October 20th, 2023 at 11:42 AM ^

It's the inevitable transition to being the bad guy.

When you win for the first time in forever, other people like it and give you pats on the back. See: Lions, Detroit. 

When you keep on winning after that, then people start to look at you negatively. You get shit like this and so many jump into full-blown Charlie Day conspiracy "well THIS clearly explains EVERYTHING NOW!!!" I have to laugh reading reddit comments about how this is why we beat OSU's ass two years in a row, and why we didn't beat TCU last year (because failing on two goal-to-go situations and throwing two pick 6's is related to not sign stealing...somehow...and it's not like we had a month to prepare for TCU or anything...)

It's fine. Let them think that this is the entire reason Michigan has been winning. No, it's not our roster of countless future NFL players, or the schemes that defenses can't defend without devoting extra resources/energy in which case Michigan runs some counter concept...nope, it's clearly the CHEATING that led to CJ being open by a country mile at OSU. Right. It's a HEALTH AND SAFETY issue to MSU (for...reasons), one year after they literally had a dozen players assault two of ours for no reason.

Michigan might be morally grey in a way that it wasn't before Harbaugh, but the people complaining have absolutely no room to talk. Even if this allegation is 100% true...so what? Sign stealing isn't illegal, which is a fact that I think half of those dunking on michigan now don't understand. And the supposed allegation (if true) violates a rule that, frankly, is grossly outdated in the era of NIL and legalized pay-to-play. For something that any opponent should be able to adjust to by, you know, changing signs. I'm all ears if it turns out this "vast network" was more nefarious sounding than what has been reported so far (i.e., if it was spying on practices, that sort of shit). But right now, it just feels like the people who normally hate Michigan are  trying to take us down in the PR world. In a way it's flattering, because it means they know we are that good now, and they don't think they can beat us on the field. 

Michigan is full on Villain Mode now. Good, don't even care. They have a reason to bond together more than even before with Burgergate. Even better. 

 

dragonchild

October 20th, 2023 at 11:51 AM ^

It's fine. Let them think that this is the entire reason Michigan has been winning.

This makes it sound like the "they" is MSU and OSU fans.  Whatever.  Michigan could be part of the Holy frickin' Trinity and they'd see devils in shadows.  They're too far gone to reason with.

But saying it here is problematic because the "they" are in charge of college football.

It's annoying if your neighbor is a prejudiced, paranoid idiot who's absolutely convinced (based on nothing) you're a criminal.  It's kinda different if the prejudiced, paranoid idiot is a cop at your door.  He may not have any evidence so it probably won't go anywhere, but he can still make your life very miserable.

CompleteLunacy

October 20th, 2023 at 12:43 PM ^

Oh no doubt you're correct. 

But in this case,  the "cops" are a tarnished organization that has almost no credibility at this point. Even guys like Paul Finebaum realize this, and as much as he wants to go after Michigan because of his Harbaugh hate-boner, he can't even relaly do it in this case. The optics are just as bad for the NCAA as they are for Michigan, if not worse.

OF course, that means Michigan is getting dragged in the muck. And that is most definitely making Michigan's life miserable. I don't know why so many love to hate Michigan - it's definitely not just OSU and MSU people. Feels like the moment Michigan gets good in anything it's time to bring them down by any means necessary. Obviously I'm a bit biased in that view lol. 

crg

October 20th, 2023 at 11:30 AM ^

I am still 100% for Michigan playing by "the rules" and if a staffer did actually arrange for some guys to obtain non-permitted footage it should be punished accordingly (meaning slap on the wrist - this is not major violations worthy level stuff here).

That said - update your damned rules to the 21st century please.  There are tens of thousands of people in the stands (at least) at every major game with phones in their hands capable of better imaging than almost any network broadcast equipment back in the 1990s.  If teams have signs/signals that are so easily compromised that is their own fault.  Maybe instead of paying their coaches millions they should invest more in the program security.

M-Dog

October 20th, 2023 at 11:44 AM ^

There are two types of NCAA rules: 

1) The ones that they (and everybody else) really care about, and will enforce universally and consistently.

2) A thousand little petty and archaic rules that nobody cares about, and will change in a few years anyway when the creaky organization gets around to it.

Category 2) should not, and is not, taken seriously by anybody. 

stephenrjking

October 20th, 2023 at 11:51 AM ^

Respectfully disagree with this.

The NCAA’s enforcement power has always been terrible. They cannot subpoena. Nobody is legally required to talk to them.

Weve seen many, many examples of “important” rules being flouted, and “minor” rules getting enforced.

That’s because the proper understanding of two categories is this: 

1. Rules the NCAA can catch and punish you for breaking;

2. Rules the NCAA cannot prove you are breaking. 

One of the reasons a lot of the dumb rules stick around for a long time is because they give them more opportunities for the NCAA to find rules of type #1, when they want to. 

bronxblue

October 20th, 2023 at 12:22 PM ^

Yeah, the NCAA has always felt like traffic cops without radar guns and breathalyzers who give you tickets for busted tail lights and expired tags.  They can't catch the real infractions so they just try to nickle-and-dime you for the cheap stuff because it's the only stuff they can prove without any help.

J. Redux

October 20th, 2023 at 1:44 PM ^

You're the last person I would have expected to give up on the idea that Michigan should hold itself to a higher standard. :(

The remedy for "other teams cheating" is not to operate at their level -- it's to beat them without cheating and win doubly in the process.

I said it yesterday -- I'm the most "play by the rules" guy you'll find.  There is no legitimate reason for college football to exist if people will not play by the rules -- the point is supposed to be to instill leadership and a sense of fair play in students.  Michigan would not endow a chemistry department that faked its results to try to win a prestigious prize or to get more publications or whatnot.

But... even with those standards, even believing that Michigan should follow the rules because it's the right thing to do even if everyone else is cheating -- I'm having a hard time getting outraged about this.  "Stealing signs" isn't against the rules provided you don't do anything untoward to steal them.  Nobody has even accused Michigan of that.  The accusations are that they sent people not affiliated with the university to scout opponents -- basically, it sounds like this guy might have called up his Marine buddies and asked if they'd do him a favor.

Plus, as I've said before: having the opponent steal your signs, if you know about it, is an advantage.  Anyone with half a brain would tell their team to ignore the signs and run the counter to the play that was signed in.  OSU / whomever should have been able to gash Michigan repeatedly until Michigan gave up and went back to a base defense.

stephenrjking

October 20th, 2023 at 2:45 PM ^

I'm afraid that I've long since come to the conclusion that if I expect an athlete or team to match my personal standards of ethics, morals, or politics, I will invariably be left with nobody to root for. 

Even if one abandoned the idea of rooting for a specific team at all and chose to follow and root only for athletes and teams that upheld one's principles, one will find oneself disappointed eventually. I used to buy into the "moral hero" aspects of things a bit more. I would root for guys that I identified with, or that shared aspects of my faith, or that were "inspiring stories." But some of those guys turned out not to be as great as they seemed, and some of the inspiring stories turned out to be not-so-inspiring

Not following sports is a valid option for someone troubled with such qualms... but not one I am likely to pursue. I can choose to change my fandom, which is a pretty significant part of my life history and family and life-long hobby and entertainment interest, or I can grit my teeth and accept that not everybody I cheer for is going to be someone that I would necessarily consider a great personal example for me in my life. It is, it turns out, just a game.

Most Michigan fans have done this. We don't like the recent revelations of sexual abuse, but few have turned in their Michigan apparel. If you like Jim Harbaugh, unless you're in the very narrow Venn window of people who are ardent supporters of both Colin Kaepernick and Pro-Life advocacy, you like a man who has involved himself in a poltical position that you disagree with. We, as others, have cheered for players that turned out to be not-great-guys or to have doped, as well as players who are great citizens. Michigan is a family, and that comes with its lumps and challenges. Nobody knows the imperfections of a family like its own members; nobody loves those family members more, either.

I can demand perfection. Or I can love them for who they are. As I was loved unconditionally while I was yet a sinner, so must I love others. My love for my wife and for my kids is not conditioned on their perfection, and neither is that for my congregation or friends or community. Michigan is "just" Michigan, but it's where I grew up, it is the place that my parents met and the place that bequeathed upon each of them post-graduate degrees and a network to which I owe an incalculable material debt of gratitude, and it is the place that has gone from the exotic dream of a boy entranced with winged helmets and names like Jamie Morris and Jim Harbaugh to that of a middle-aged man who marks the years and the seasons of life with memories of time shared with his late father, his wife, his young kids, and his friends cheering on those same colors, singing the same song together. 

It's not perfect. It never will be. But we love it all the same. 

J. Redux

October 21st, 2023 at 2:44 AM ^

Fair enough (and your piece from 2013 was quite eloquent).  Perfection is obviously an impossible standard, but you can love unconditionally while still attempting to uphold a standard of morality.  (And I doubt any of us truly love Michigan unconditionally in the same way we love our families :).

I grew up without the direct connections to Michigan that you had; my family settled down in Oakland County when I was four.  We didn't have a college football rooting interest; I picked it up from the neighborhood and from school.  Similar to what you were saying, Michigan had the helmets, and Anthony Carter was followed by Jim Harbaugh and Jamie Morris, and Bo preached integrity and old-fashioned midwestern values in a time when that didn't necessarily carry the same connotations it did today.

I chose to go out of state for college, to a school with D-III athletics and thus no need to change my affiliation.  But I also stayed a Michigan fan because I gravitated toward the ideals that Michigan professed to have, going all the way back to Fielding Yost; a man, incidentally, who definitively failed to live up to those same ideals.  The ideals that Bo Schembechler embodied -- until we found out that he, too, turned out to be less than we'd made him out to be.

But we do not lower the bar and ask less of ourselves because Bo failed.  There is still something to be said for doing the right thing because it is the right thing -- to use the words of another imperfect man, we do these things not because they are easy but because they are hard.  If we lower our standards to achieve victory, we cheapen the very thing that we attempt to attain.

It goes back to my fundamental question: why should the University of Michigan sponsor an intercollegiate athletics department?  With the corollary being, why should I invest my time, energy, and money into cheering for their success?  If the football team is nothing but a fundraising arm of the university, I'm a fool for investing emotion in it.  There is a community feeling from attending a game and singing the same song as everyone else, but I could just as easily find that at a bar with an 80's cover band.

For me, the answer to why Michigan sponsors athletics is that athletics is supposed to impart the sense of fair play that we so desperately need from our leaders.  It is supposed to include a code of sportsmanship that embodies those same midwestern values that I felt were important and that I wanted to live my own life by.  (And have I succeeded? -- like anyone, not as well as I would have liked, but each day I try to be better than I was the day before).  Athletics are supposed to be burnish the character or our young men and women and prepare them for a life spent in pursuit of something worthwhile.

Instead, what I see is athletics devolving into the same sort of arena as our statesmanship has, where we demonize and dehumanize our opponents, and where ethics are seen as a quaint relic of a bygone era.  And it saddens me, but, to borrow an example from the other side of the political aisle from JFK, I will stand athwart history yelling Stop.

I do not expect perfection.  But I do expect Michigan athletics to strive for greatness, and that includes facing up to their mistakes.  Now, in this particular case, I think the mistakes are much less less than the popular press would have you believe, and I don't think we need to self-flagellate.  But I am not going to stop believing that Michigan can be something better than it is.

I'll close with an anecdote from last week's game.  I was sitting in amongst the players' families, next to an adorable boy of about 8 or 9 years old.  Toward the start of the fourth quarter, I mentioned in passing how I didn't think Mr. Brightside was an appropriate song for a family audience, but I sung it anyway.  With the clarity and innocence of a child, the young man asked me why I sang it if I thought it was inappropriate.  I responded that it was because everyone else was doing it, and then I realized immediately what I had said.  I tried to follow up with a "don't do something just because everyone else is doing it," but I knew I had already lost.  But, with his question, he reminded me to do better.  Sometimes it feels like Michigan could use a kid like him.

Brhino

October 20th, 2023 at 11:09 AM ^

The funniest thing about all the Sparty hand-wringing is that all the people saying Harbaugh is some kind of terrible monster and won't you please think of the children are the same people begging Urban Meyer to come coach them.  They even acknowledge that Meyer's a scumbag, and say that they don't care because he wins football games.

Ryno2317

October 20th, 2023 at 11:14 AM ^

Saw Paul Finebaum this morning.  If he is saying it’s not a big deal, it won’t be a big deal.  He is the mouthpiece of the SEC and he basically said everyone does this and the investigation only exists because they are pissed at Harbaugh turning his nose up to them. 

bronxblue

October 20th, 2023 at 11:16 AM ^

Also, this "article" by Ross Dellenger and accompanying images is unintentionally the perfect distillation of this entire story, which is a combination of internal inconsistencies, pettiness, bullshit, and lazy reporting by legacy media desperate to get eyeballs and lacking editors who'd normally throw their bodies in front of these awful takes.

https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1715379526727770156