OT: Cleveland Indians to retire Chief Wahoo logo
It was just announced that Cleveland will be retiring the Chief Wahoo logo starting in 2019. Always an interesting topic of debate, especially with Dan Snyder seeming so unwilling to bend on a mascot/name that seems even more offensive than Cleveland's.
Since they're a division rival of Detroit's, we see them quite a bit each season, and it defintely seems that they've already been de-emphasizing Chief Wahoo in recent years, with the block 'C' logo becoming more prominent on their caps and uniforms.
Thought this might be of interest to some of the baseball fans on the board.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/29/sports/baseball/cleveland-indians-chief-wahoo-logo.html
January 29th, 2018 at 2:52 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 2:56 PM ^
Tail wags the dog these days, my friend.
January 29th, 2018 at 2:57 PM ^
So let's take that number at face value for a minute, and ignore all other arguments for getting rid of Chief Wahoo.
You're saying that this team has a mascot that is such an offensive caricature that one out of eight people thinks is offensive... and that's a good thing? Why not have a team name that zero out of eight people think is offensive, like every other team in baseball?
January 29th, 2018 at 6:09 PM ^
February 5th, 2018 at 2:57 PM ^
I mean, I'm offended on behalf of two different colors of sock.
January 29th, 2018 at 2:39 PM ^
probably should stop calling themselves "Indians" as well*
January 29th, 2018 at 2:52 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 2:42 PM ^
It will definitely help alleviate the suffering and abject poverty found on many Indian Reservations.
January 29th, 2018 at 2:55 PM ^
...using Chief Wahoo is not a particuarly big deal. But getting rid of him is not a particularly big deal either.
January 29th, 2018 at 3:18 PM ^
or we could just keep trivializing them by using their heritage as a mascot. particularly with a big red face and an insentitive franchise name.
January 29th, 2018 at 6:14 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 6:32 PM ^
You know, it's not an either/or thing. It's not like society is capable of only one good deed, and dropping this awful racist mascot uses it up.
January 29th, 2018 at 7:01 PM ^
So while you may think this is offensive, most native Americans don’t. And by removing it you’re not solving real issues in the Native American community, just satiating your feelings. Therefore, this is classic virtual signaling.
January 29th, 2018 at 2:43 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 3:43 PM ^
Society today - I can't handle that everyone gets offended by the things I say! It makes me feel small and powerless! Keep things the way they've always been!
January 29th, 2018 at 2:43 PM ^
Seems as though FSU has the endorsement of the Seminole Indian Tribe...This is so weird...you can offend someone no matter what you do.
January 29th, 2018 at 2:47 PM ^
Good point, Cleveland should just ask for support from the ... uh ... Indian tribe? The Tribe, maybe? I'm not sure actually.
January 29th, 2018 at 2:50 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 2:47 PM ^
I don't care either way about the Indians logo and team name. And I am constantly surprised by the number of teams/schools in the Chicago area with native american related names.
1. I would hope that if the Cleveland MLB team changes names, it is something far more creative than EMU Eagles or St. John Red Storm. Two of the the worst team names ever. Eagles, Falcons, Tigers and the like are way too common for team names. The obvious choice for Eastern should have been the Emus.
2. Clearly the most offensive logo is ND's leprechaun and Fighting Irish mascot, yet it is WIDELY embraced by the Irish community in the U.S. and abroad. So to make blanket statements about how one group believes about a particular topic is painting with too broad a brush.
January 29th, 2018 at 2:48 PM ^
It's a more crude depiction than Disney's Peter Pan lol. The Washington Redskins and Chicago Blackhawks don't even compare.
January 29th, 2018 at 2:54 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 3:29 PM ^
Well I was talking about logos, but you have a point.
January 29th, 2018 at 2:58 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 3:01 PM ^
I'm just mad the Washington Bullets had to change their name. Talk about a mascot representative of America and the team's local surroundings.
January 29th, 2018 at 3:09 PM ^
Still, the funniest joke I've ever heard about that name change came from Tony Kornheiser. Paraphrasing: "So, the Washington Bullets are changing their team name so as not be associated with crime. They will now just be called The Bullets."
January 29th, 2018 at 3:21 PM ^
I must have missed this one back when Kornheiser said this. Got a laugh out of me.
January 29th, 2018 at 3:04 PM ^
As a person of Irish descent, I'm outraged by the Boston Celtics' tonedeaf stance towards the misappropriation of my cultural heritage. They refuse to pronounce "Celtic" properly, and their logo clearly lampoons individuals of Irish descent. My Uncle Sean Seamus Patrick O'Flannagan looks a little like that, but he's the only one. Do they even know what the Blarney Stone is? They don't serve haggis at the TD Garden, and the beers.. Heineken? Dos Equis? Sierra Nevada? H'ain't they ever heard o' Kilkenny, or Beamish? Or at least a Mickey's Big Mouth fer cryin' out loud?
In closing, all of this causes me to abuse my liver at an even more furious rate than I ordinarily would. My Gaelic blood cries out within me for redress of the wrong perpetrated upon Celts, and therefore upon all humankind, by the Boston Celtics.
January 29th, 2018 at 3:18 PM ^
I read your entire post as though you were speaking directly to me in an Irish accent---slur and all.
January 29th, 2018 at 3:29 PM ^
I'm Polish. How the fuck do you think I feel?
January 29th, 2018 at 3:57 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 4:17 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 4:33 PM ^
I've never seen a better cartoon version of my father (100% Polish), and you're damn right I'd be offended if this was the logo for a baseball team named the Poles.
January 29th, 2018 at 7:24 PM ^
like you can't wait for the first warm summer evening of the year so you can finally get some use out of that screen door you put on the submarine.
January 29th, 2018 at 3:08 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 3:19 PM ^
Right, it's just like how most people handle things in this country: Do I like said thing (yes) or (no)? If (yes), good. If (no), thing must be invalid. Proceed with life having solved cognitive dissonance in a way that requires no further consideration.
January 29th, 2018 at 3:41 PM ^
Counterpoint: You're feeling unsafe because people want to take away your precious sports team logo. Some might say that makes you a "snowflake."
I don't actually give a shit about your decision to wear the logo. Doesn't offend me personally, although it seems perfectly reasonable to consider the impact it may have on others. What bothers me is that your argument is equally obtuse as those screaming "NO" from their PC high horse. And those people do exist. But the fact is it's the team's choice and it sounds like they've thought a lot harder about the pros and cons than you have.
January 29th, 2018 at 4:04 PM ^
perfect counterpoint.
it seems to me most people who use the term snowflakes are themselves the snowflakes.
January 29th, 2018 at 7:23 PM ^
and I'll co-sign the comment.
January 29th, 2018 at 3:45 PM ^
That's the beauty of this country - you can walk around with an offensive team logo and nothing will likely happen to you AND people who are directly affected and (rightfully, in their eyes) offended by it also get a small bit of support thrown their way.
I assume you are talking about Henry Ford, since he was a known anti-semite and, I guess, a bigot (though he had a weird legacy because much of his economic growth came from welcoming African Americans from the South to his factories). If you are referring to Gerald Ford, my understanding was he had a pretty progressive view on race relations even though his administration stumbled at times (he appointed the first African-American Secretary of Transportation but then didn't handle integrated busing well). In fact, he threatened to quit the Michigan team if his teammates were not allowed to play due to segregation. Not that you seem to care much about any of that, but figured it would be of value to someone.
January 29th, 2018 at 3:54 PM ^
I was also confused about the Ford bit. Pretty sure people in SE Michigan (ahem Lions fans) do nothing but shit on the Fords. He was a known anti-semite though, and not sure why that would be worth bringing up by OP.
January 29th, 2018 at 4:30 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 9:27 PM ^
The Indians logo has 100% been a big deal well before they made the WS. Of course, you didn't even believe people were offended by it despite multiple examples to the contrary, so I'm starting to wonder how in-tune you are to the actual controversy.
I'd also like to know how the last name of a person (to "your people", which I'd like to know in more detail) is the same as a racist caricature of a people, but you seemed to be on a roll. Again, you seem really bothered that your team has to change its racist logo to something less so (and in now way else have to change) because other people are bothered by it. That's your right, but looks like you're going to be on the losing end of that argument.
January 29th, 2018 at 4:37 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 4:53 PM ^
Person #1: "Hey, you want to go protest this thing?"
Person #2: "Yeah, totally! Where at?"
Person #1: "Cleveland, OH"
Person #2:
January 29th, 2018 at 9:42 PM ^
For the past 20 years, a group of Native Americans and other activists have been rallying for the name and logo of the team to change. Sundance, one of the demonstrators out today said, "They're making a whole bunch of money off of that symbol and that team name & we feel exploited."
Just...stop. I get it. You are an Indians' fan. You don't care if people dislike your mascot. But put some effort into your wrong beliefs at the bare minimum.
January 29th, 2018 at 3:09 PM ^
Perfect for Cleveland
January 29th, 2018 at 3:23 PM ^
That hat!!
January 29th, 2018 at 3:22 PM ^
Good. It needed to be removed, and even though it took longer than it should have at least the right move was made.