Past 2 SEASONS of B1G Conference: Michigan's Opponents Penalized Only Twice for Offensive Holding
This is a crazy update from Maizen's thread (here) now that we're at the end of the season.
The latest version of the report (linked here) is from a 247 article, with original info coming from Toronto Sun columnist John Kyrk.
I mean, yikes. This should at least raise some eyebrows.
Edit: Title was worded improperly. Please see the comments below for more information.
November 28th, 2017 at 3:15 AM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 4:32 AM ^
Judging by Brian's response in his game recap, I'd guess that Maizen was one of the dudes who decided to have a go at O'Korn.
November 28th, 2017 at 6:48 AM ^
He got the banhammer a few days before the game. Not sure what specifically pushed the mods over the edge.
November 28th, 2017 at 7:29 AM ^
I was on another site (maybe reddit), and someone brought up Maizen pretty much unprompted. That's some next-level stuff.
On the other hand, I've known some folks in my personal life who are grappling with depression, and I can't help but see parallels between their behavior and Maizen's posts. These folks weren't just negative about stuff, they were inconsolable and obdurate in their negativity.
November 28th, 2017 at 7:39 AM ^
For using the word "obdurate" on a sports blog. Signs of intelligent life here. My day has gotten off to a good start.
November 28th, 2017 at 7:51 AM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 12:53 PM ^
Obdurate ain't that obscure. It pops up in the Gilbert & Sullivan song "Titwilliow" in the Mikado, which is still a rather popular show (at least in my house). In fact, there is a great take somewhere on the interwebs of Groucho Marx performing the song on TV in the '60s and stopping to ask the audience if anyone knows what obdurate means. So if Groucho wants you to know, are you really gonna argue?
November 28th, 2017 at 3:05 PM ^
Use over time for the word "obdurate":
It's on the upswing!
November 28th, 2017 at 8:14 AM ^
Then again, I'm an engineer so.......
November 28th, 2017 at 9:08 AM ^
Had the same reaction. +1
November 28th, 2017 at 9:17 AM ^
Read thousands of books, never seen it before either. But I am an engineer also.
November 28th, 2017 at 4:27 PM ^
from us engineers.
Some day, maybe someone will put all these words into a book and then everyone will have access to them.
November 28th, 2017 at 3:31 PM ^
If I'm remembering properly, I first learnt it while studying for some or another standardized test. Glad you enjoyed it!
November 28th, 2017 at 7:57 PM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 8:26 AM ^
I was at the HomeSure Lending tailgate and I overheard I guy say "I wonder if Maizen is here"; the guy sure is living in infamy.
November 28th, 2017 at 8:45 AM ^
Are you diagnosing someone without meeting them or knowing them? Seems like next-level stuff too but not in a good way.
November 28th, 2017 at 3:29 PM ^
I think by noting that I observed parallels in friends (instead of discussing symptoms seen in my patients or identified in the literature), I've pretty well distanced myself from any claims to be a mental health professional or otherwise capable of making a diagnosis.
What I'm saying is that it's easy to be annoyed, but maybe there's room for compassion. Sometimes people say things that don't make sense, and sometimes that's a signal about an underlying problem.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:34 AM ^
The banning of Maizen was done by Seth, as he admits in the Mod Sticky. Essentially, it was the cumulative effect of his posts ultimately turning into cesspools and his unfortunate reaction to being questioned or challenged that brought him down. He was kind of invited to try again under another name and with a nicer tone.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:58 AM ^
he also brought the knowledge. I hope he remains a regular. In comparison to many of the crudely negative and anodyne posts here these days. . .
Neurosis is character--Sigmund Freud
November 28th, 2017 at 9:50 AM ^
He kept referring to the bottom half of Michigan's recruiting class as garbage. With him it was cumulative though, so the final fuck off was probably easy for the mods.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:08 AM ^
Maizen is Bizzaro WD
November 28th, 2017 at 12:54 PM ^
split personalities
November 28th, 2017 at 3:15 AM ^
You almost lost me at Maizen, but dang those stats are compelling in the 247 article... sad.
One takeaway is that our D is even more freaking beastly than previously acknowledged.
November 28th, 2017 at 5:28 AM ^
Honestly, I think a bunch of his stuff is excessively negative, but he was the first one to pick up on this (maybe along with a tweet from Brian) back in October.
November 28th, 2017 at 6:45 AM ^
Pretty sure he stole it from the Wolverine Podcast actually. He wasn't big on citing his sources.
November 28th, 2017 at 3:16 AM ^
without getting caught. Apparently he has people study the refs to try to figure out the trends in how things are being called. Is this a thing? Is Michigan doing it? If no, why the fuck not? Shit, I'd do it for the DBs, WRs, and RBs too.
November 28th, 2017 at 4:13 AM ^
The typical response is, well we just need to beat teams bad enough that those calls don't matter. Sure, that works against Rutgers, but the odds of blowing out osu aren't very good. Those games will be close and the refs will make a difference.
November 28th, 2017 at 7:21 AM ^
No one is Ohio is so clever as to figure out how to hold wihtout being called for it.
November 28th, 2017 at 9:40 AM ^
and making more plays ensures tha. But the contention that you should suck it up and play on without complaint when calls are not made or go against you, particularly in The Game, is just plain galling.
But when there is a discernible pattern and evidence on film of discrepancies in both the nature of certain penalties called and the nature of them, the league needs to explain itself.
One year of one-sided officiating was bad enough, two years of inconsistent calls in The Game represents more than the work product of more than one crew, it's a pattern, especially when you consider the numbers.
Officiating is about angles, standards and consistency in rules enforcement. Players and coaches can accept any officiating so long as they know what is allowed and what isn't. Holding is always a judgment call, whether on offense or deffense based on whether player control is being managed after engagement and leverage has been defeated and holding occurs to prevent unencumbered movement.
Clearly, holding could be called on offensive linemen all game long. And so an egregious standard is typically set. And that standard is usually one where the defender is pulled down, hooked or grabbed and the play is so obvious that even first-time fans can pinpoint it. I mean that is what has essentially become the apparent standard for the Big Ten in making this call.
NFL officials have no qualms making this call. I watched the Carolina-Jet game on Sunday just to see what constitutes offensive holding at the pro level, and based on the flags thrown on both teams in that game alone (each team was called for holding at least once), the standard applied was simply losing engagement with the defender and seeking to prevent his movement toward playing action.
These weren't overt. And the flags thrown were for far less consquential illegal control than the Buckeyes managed in trying to block Maurice Hurst at times on Saturday. On the play where Haskins got a first down on a run insiide the Michigan five, Hurst got a hand on Haskins while a Buckeye blocker had two hands on him from behind. Now that is the essece of holding, seeking to prevent unencumbered movement. And the result of the play was huge.
There is a reason holding gets called on big plays either from scrambles or deep throws, and that's because they take longer to develop and there is a longer period of sustained engagement between blocker and defender in the backfield. And yet, in none of these plays on Saturday was holding ever called even though there is plenty of evidence on film to show this occurring.
And given the standard set Saturday for holding calls was advantage-disadvantage bsased on leverage, the league in my opinion cannot adequately explain why one thing was called and others let go. And if you can't explain it, you can't call it, whcih is apparently the new standard for the Big Ten, especially in The Game.
November 28th, 2017 at 10:22 AM ^
OSU gets flagged more than us in other games. That in itself tells the whole story. I remember them having nine penalty's at the half of the Iowa game and thinking they had one the whole game last year. I think it is obvious and that there is a directive issued for the game.
Also no holding calls against our d-line is flat out impossible. I think Warde Manuel better start addressing these issues with delaney. I am pretty sure Michigan can cause some major waves. Maybe we should become an independent and get our own network. Wonder how much revenue Michigan brings into the Big Ten. I would think the team who brings in the most money would benefit from some calls.
I personally like the direct approach and would like to see the officials get flat out beat down, but they say I have violent tendencies. LOL.
November 28th, 2017 at 10:25 AM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 12:06 PM ^
"Also no holding calls against our d-line is flat out impossible."
Not really. Even really good D-lines get almost no holding calls.
For the season:
Michigan opponents have been called for holding 8 times.
0.66 per game.
Ohio State opponents have been called for holding 9 times.
0.75 per game.
Alabama opponents have been called for holding 3 times.
0.25 per game
November 28th, 2017 at 7:06 PM ^
November 29th, 2017 at 4:12 PM ^
Michigan had 9 accepted holding calls against them on offense this season.
0.75 per game.
November 28th, 2017 at 3:24 AM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 4:07 AM ^
Honenstly fuck Delaney. He has been out to get us ever since the Bo days. When Bo called him out he just doubled down.
If you don't like the rules, change the game. Join the SEC. As if they wouldn't be dying to have Michigan. Conspire with Texas to make it a package deal: Texas joins the West and Michigan joins the East to form the first SUPERCONFERENCE with 16 teams. Keep the OSU game as an OOC end of season matchup like Florida-FSU.
Yes, travel would be hard, but I prefer that to getting screwed by the d-bags that run the Big Ten year in and year out.
/s (but only slightly...)
November 28th, 2017 at 4:32 AM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 8:58 AM ^
Leaving the Big Ten would be stupid and it will never happen. Leaving the conference because of the refs would be an all-time embarrassment as any national respect would be lost and deservedly so.
We're never going independent. Jesus Christ, if this isn't the most Michigan comment ever I don't know what is. When you would rather avoid playing rabid, idiot fanbases than just beat them and play for championships, you've gone full soft cult and jumped the shark.
Man up and win anyway. People are seriously upvoting whiny "we should leave the Big Ten because we don't get calls" comments? What the fuck? Have some self-respect.
November 28th, 2017 at 9:42 AM ^
Some would define "having some self-respect" as standing up for yourself and not letting someone continuously take advantage of you. Unless you're watching different games than the rest of us, the last two OSU games have been an embarrassment from an officiating standpoint. Man up and win anyway?? Sure.
I'm not saying we should absolutely leave the B1G, but your response is just as much of an overreaction in the opposite direction of the ones you are chastising.
November 28th, 2017 at 10:00 AM ^
No. Not really. It's the realistic take. Michigan is not leaving the Big Ten and won't and this wouldn't even be a topic of discussion if we had any Big Ten titles recently. Everyone here knows that. It makes no sense to be an independent. It makes no sense to be in the SEC or any other conference when the Big Ten revolves so heavily around Michigan and Ohio State for football. If there is a problem (and we know there is) then make a public campaign against Delaney or some other such move but you don't quit and leave the conference.
So no, it's not an overreaction at all. It's pointing out how fucking soft people are getting when they are resorting to "let's quit the conference becauze we don't like how games are being officiated."
We lost 4 games this year. None of them were lost because of the lack of holding calls. We still had chances to win. Leaving the conference/taking our ball and going home is not a real solution.
November 28th, 2017 at 12:35 PM ^
"Man up and win anyway!" is not the same as a campaign against Delaney, so you changed your argument. Regardless, after reading some of your other posts it seems we are mostly on the same page.
November 28th, 2017 at 8:45 PM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 10:47 AM ^
It's all about honesty and fair play. The kids are really the one's getting fucked over. I see you don't care about fair play and probably never played in any type of sport. The refs are not put in there to change the fuckin outcome of the game. Of course with billions of dollars riding on these games ther is no way this shit is deliberate.
People outside of the Michigan fan base are seeing it. That my man is a national embarassment. There are people all over the media commenting on it. It is hard enough to win these games but when the other team is getting a handicap it becomes somewhat unfair don't you think my man.
OSU had nine penaltys at the half against Iowa and one the whole game last year. It makes a huge difference but hey man up and win anyway's. How about fuck you the game should be officiated fairly...........EVERY GAME.
Oh Ya we don't have to leave, we just have to mention it. Money talks and when the rich are getting fucked over it would be stupid to do nothing. Of course we are not leaving, but I will never understand why anyone in a position of power would ever relinquish it. This country figured it out and maybe Michigan will also.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:26 AM ^
Whoa. Easy there. Pretty sure we're still on the same side. I'm actually mad about the officiating too. I just know we aren't leaving the conference and any talk of that is futile and dumb.
As for me playing a sport. I actually played football, basketball, baseball and ran track (baseball and track in the same season) in high school. Was an all-state pitcher in baseball and an honorable mention all-state football player, all-conference in basketball. I also medaled at state in track in the 100m and 400m relay. So yeah, didn't play any sport, hahahaha. Would tell you what I did after high school but I'm not giving up my identity.
That being said, I don't think playing the sport is relevant in this discussion but whatever.
I AGREE. Let me restate, I AGREE. We need better and fair officiating. But bitching about it all the time isn't changing anything and MIchigan leaving the Big Ten is and will be a non-starter.
November 28th, 2017 at 8:11 PM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 7:23 AM ^
God Bless him, tweeted out that Michigan has not been getting a fair shake and that the officiating during the Game was an embarrassment.
November 28th, 2017 at 8:31 AM ^
while I don't think this merits threatening to leave the conference, I do believe it's Warde Manual's job to put together a thoughtful, comprehensive study replete with statistics of UM and other conference foes and make a presentation to the B1G office. This is not just a whining fan base. It's systemic tipping of the scales in the opposition's favor and I believe it is being done consciously.
November 28th, 2017 at 3:59 AM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 4:49 AM ^
Not at all this is far from crazy talk. All our other programs could stay in the B1G if they chose to do so. Just move our football program I mean ND does the exact same thing. I don't think it's a secret that our football team in the most popular team within Michigan Athletics.
Crazy to me is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. It would be 1 thing if we get hosed once every 4 or 5 games. This is happening literally almost every game and especially happening in every big game we are playing in. Crazy to me would be to have a program with the allure of Michigan Football and simply let a biased conference taint multiple seasons in a row. I mean people’s livelihoods depend on their performance when they are coaches. For instance if you worked or was subcontracted under a company and they constantly gave you the shit end of the stick wouldn’t look to seek employment elsewhere? This is not about quitting or complaining it’s just simple math. The odds are stacked against us and those odds seem to get steeper with every season.
Harbaugh pissed some people off within CFB I think that much is obvious. I mean the shit he did the past 3 years literally changed CFB in a lot of ways. He literally took advantage of every loophole he could find and made the NCAA and SEC coaches get off their ass and do something about it. I mean whatever he did was good enough to piss off Saban and almost instantly after he complained rules started to change and new rules installed. The system is not fair and that’s ok, but constantly cheating to make a team lose Is wrong! I mean we obviously didn’t need any help with losing this season we shot ourselves in the foot over and over and it seemed every time shit started clicking some zebra was throwing flags left and right.
Lastly, should we have to play flawlessly game in and game out to overcome bs calls made by officials more than likely on purpose? Fair play goes a long ways and you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to realize something is not right. Those statistics alone are enough. Then set down and watch the last 2 seasons of Michigan Football and eventually your left with WTF is going on thought. Michigan Football is not defined by the B1G Conference, it’s defined by how many games it wins! If we are constantly always fighting a uphill battle and we make a few mistakes here and there how in the hell do we ever expect to seriously compete for a conference championship or a national championship?