Terrance Williams Appreciation
Obviously the entire mbb season and program are a total shit show, but I wanted to put a little appreciation out there for TWill. He's been put into a lot of positions that he shouldn't have been in due to the overall poor roster construction of the team and seems like a good dude who is legitimately trying. He continued to go hard tonight while everything collapsed. Sucks that it came to this, but I'll remember him fondly when this all mercifully ends.
January 30th, 2024 at 11:36 PM ^
Appreciate the players. The state of the basketball team falls on Warde and Juwan mostly.
January 30th, 2024 at 11:48 PM ^
I've seen some people post that he (Coach Juwan) will get another year.. But personally, I cannot see why or how. It's going to remain a very.. not good.. bad season. But I support the team and I feel bad for the players. Hopefully the ship will be righted sometime soon.
January 30th, 2024 at 11:53 PM ^
If Juwan wasn't who he is I would have wanted him fired last year. While it's starting to look like his departure is inevitable, part of me doesn't want it to happen just because of everything he has meant to the program and the hard work he put in to get to this place.
I'm fine with him not being another Harbaugh, but it'll be really disappointing if he becomes our Scott Frost.
January 31st, 2024 at 12:18 AM ^
I think Juwan could've built a strong program with loads of talent coming through the door -- just not at Michigan. He's had more talent rejected by admissions than we have on our current roster.
January 31st, 2024 at 7:54 AM ^
I've thought the same. Recruiting is his strong suit compared to everything else. He should have a team like LSU had when we beat them in the tourney. Get 5 stars and roll the ball out and don't emphasize defense or rebounding and just let them play.
January 31st, 2024 at 10:05 AM ^
He's had more talent rejected by admissions than we have on our current roster.
He's had two players rejected, in two years. Neither should have been a surprise given our admissions stance (that undergraduate players need to complete a majority of their credits here). It was a mistake to target them in the first place, and worse, we had no Plan B when they didn't get in.
Our struggles go beyond this. His roster management in general has been poor (why so few guards on the roster?) and the team is utterly atrocious defensively, despite having decent experience and athleticism.
He might be better off in the NBA, where he would just coach and wouldn't have to assemble a roster. Also, NBA players don't need as much fundamental development. In hindsight, hiring a coach with no college experience at all was probably a bad idea.
January 31st, 2024 at 10:35 AM ^
If our coach wasn't named Juwan Howard, but was just some guy who hadn't been a legendary player, would you really be carrying this much water for him?
Admissions rejected one guy (Caleb Love) last offseason. They also let three other transfers in. They didn't make Juwan leave multiple roster spots open. It's also not their fault this team can't defend a closed door.
With Franz Wagner on the team, Juwan went 42-17. Without Franz, he's 44-45.
January 31st, 2024 at 12:10 PM ^
If not for admissions, Shannon and Love would be on the team. If not for our weak NIL, Dickinson would be on the team (he may have also stayed if Shannon had been admitted, he was leading the front on recruiting them).
This team is probably a solid squad with Dug, Love, Shannon, and Dickinson.
It is what it is. Michigan limits themselves. But Howard wouldn't have had those problems at a lot of other schools.
January 31st, 2024 at 6:25 PM ^
Part of the reason Dickinson left was because the team was pretty bad; and much of the reason it was bad was because Howard couldn’t get them to play defense. It’s funny to claim Howard would have been successful at another major program— I don’t think any other major college program would have even hired him, as he had no college coaching experience and had never been a head coach.
January 31st, 2024 at 1:53 PM ^
Duke doesn't have trouble.
January 31st, 2024 at 2:29 PM ^
Which is why he was never a good fit in the first place. He went here FerGodsakes, does he not know what types of players to recruit? Why's he so stuck in the 90s in assuming it has to be like it was when he was here? He should know better. But he's from Chicago. My bad, I forgot.
January 31st, 2024 at 12:51 AM ^
He's not Scott Frost. He'll always have 2021 and 2022. Those were good years.
Scott Frost did jack shit from day one.
January 31st, 2024 at 5:25 AM ^
I will forever be puzzled by people who think his “good years” were because of him instead of despite him. He’s the same coach. Just didn’t have the benefit of guys getting good coaching before him.
January 31st, 2024 at 10:10 AM ^
He's looking more like Larry Coker. He inherited a great program and kept it going for a bit, but the wheels eventually came off.
January 31st, 2024 at 12:11 AM ^
Two reasons Juwan will get another year:
- Warde sees this as a comp to Jim's '20 season and accordingly, will attempt to restructure in replicating same success. However, they're not equals.
- Warde enjoys doing nothing
January 31st, 2024 at 2:08 AM ^
I've heard a few times that Warde sees this as '20 Harbaugh and if true, he's missing a global pandemic and shortened season that began at the last second.
I love Juwan. But the program has gotten progressively worse...it's that simple.
You can cut his salary and make him build an all-new staff, but Harbaugh...while he hadn't broken through, had built the program up from Rich Rod and Hoke and it just seemed like he had his his ceiling.
Juwan's program is getting progressively worse.
I understand letting him finish the season, but it's time to blow the whole thing up and start over.
I wanted Shaka the first time around...and that still goes today.
Offer him a contract that Marquette can't match and let's roll.
January 31st, 2024 at 7:48 AM ^
To be honest, his heart surgery is like his Covid season (shortened and stressed).
January 31st, 2024 at 10:21 AM ^
The problem is that last year was already a disaster by our standards. And not much was ever expected of this year's team, well before the surgery happened.
I loved Juwan as a player and was happy when we hired him, but now we're looking at a guy whose program has collapsed, who has had a few behavioral incidents (one of which cost us our S&C coach) and whose health may affect his job performance. Unfortunately I don't see this ending well.
January 31st, 2024 at 9:58 AM ^
I used to like Shaka until he bombed out at Texas. Aren't you concerned that would happen here? He may be just cut out for a smaller school situation.
January 31st, 2024 at 1:23 PM ^
Offer him a contract that Marquette can't match and let's roll.
Good luck with that. We lost a world series baseball coach over $700k and a legendary S&C coach as well. Maybe they both were leaving no matter what but Ive got a strong inkling they werent offered "fuck it im staying money". That also means we probably have a guy that aint offering "fuck it im leaving money" to anyone anytime soon.
January 31st, 2024 at 8:37 AM ^
Warde will give him another year to prove to the Juwan supporters hovering over the program that this isn’t salvageable.
January 31st, 2024 at 9:46 AM ^
We have no way to know if this is true unless he states it but if so, he is quite honestly the worst possible individual to be a leader. You don't lead by seeking support, you lead to make good on your commitment as a leader. If Warde is seeking to have everyone agree with his decision, he is a failure. Leaders ALWAYS have detractors. It is inherent in the role. Leaders make the tough but necessary decisions. To those who are contriving to say that the heart issue is the reason this team is what it is ignores the pattern of ongoing decline year to year and the lack of development of the players and team. You ignore that they are a poorly constructed team, regardless of admissions or NIL. There are players who you can and should recruit to build out your team. Have a back up plan, all good leaders do. He has and will continue to fail. He is not a good leader, and if Warde does as you say, he is a worse leader than any AD before him.
January 31st, 2024 at 10:44 AM ^
If this team loses 20+ games, how many Juwan supporters are there going to be?
January 31st, 2024 at 1:26 PM ^
You would think all his high end NBA supporters would be helping him bring in #1 class after #1 class. Im surprised he isnt picking and choosing who he wants as recruits. That AAU circuit should be Juwan's recruiting playground.
January 31st, 2024 at 8:13 AM ^
Warde isn't going to fire Juwan after this year. Things are only going to get worse.
January 31st, 2024 at 10:50 AM ^
I can't make a strong justification for it, but my gut says he'll still get another year.
I think there's a possible line of thinking that this year, this team just didn't fit, didn't work, it's a dud. Maybe kinda like the football covid season. So Warde tells Juwan to shake up his staff and roster, make a plan to improve, and gives him one more shot.
I think Martelli, Wahsington, and Eisley should be more worried about their jobs than Howard.
Just my gut feeling, based on nothing at all.
January 31st, 2024 at 1:33 PM ^
New staff, transfers out, and new faces all over the place seem like a good idea for 2 and 3 years down the road but not a 1 year plan. If he has last years season all over again is that considered a positive sign leading us down the "lets give him another year" path? Beilein had 2 terrible seasons in his first 3 then took off for good. But we dont have any players ready to take off to the next level. Dug is spectacular at times but plays matador defense. Every other player coming back should be our 6th to 12th man on the roster.
January 30th, 2024 at 11:49 PM ^
You had me at Warde
January 31st, 2024 at 12:15 AM ^
And Beilein. He was a great coach and good guy, but he left the program in a bad spot.
January 31st, 2024 at 12:32 AM ^
How did Beilein leave the program in a bad spot?
Juwan inherited Beilein's Sweet16 team and took that roster to Elite 8. Unfortunately, He's gotten progressively worse since.
The program was in good shape when Juwan took over.
January 31st, 2024 at 12:50 AM ^
Because he left on short notice with no succession plan or coach-in-waiting ... and he left so late in the college basketball cycle that a real coaching search wasn't an option.
What he left on the roster wasn't important for the long run. Lloyd Carr left Rich Rod a lot of good players too, but both Carr and Beilein set Michigan back with how they exited.
January 31st, 2024 at 1:09 AM ^
No. Beilein left for an NBA job. NBA jobs open up in May. You can't get an NBA job in March. It sucks, but it is what it is. Beilein wanted to give the NBA a crack. Given that he single-handedly resurrected a program that hadn't had a pulse in almost a decade and elevated it to elite status (without a hint of scandal along the way), he earned the right to leave on his own terms.
Also, Warde had a viable internal candidate in Luke Yaklich. He could have gone the safe route and elevated Yaklich for the sake of continuity, but he chose to take a gamble on Juwan. That's not Beilein's fault.
January 31st, 2024 at 1:31 AM ^
It really sucks that arguably the two best Michigan coaches of all time in basketball and football, JB and JH, both coveted jobs in the professional leagues. If both guys retired as Michigan coaches they would have buildings and statues named after them in their honor. If you want a legacy as a sports coach, there is no better AFAIC.
January 31st, 2024 at 1:40 AM ^
Yaklich is .400 coach in the Missouri Valley Conference.
And I agree, Beilein earned the right to do what he wanted. I'm not mad at him. But it set the program back. By the time he made his choice, the pool of candidates to replace him was dry. He left no capable in house replacement, and no time to search. Compare that to a successful transition like Duke, where Coach K had an associate head coach for years, knowing he was nearing the end of his time at Duke. Beilein got frustrated and burned out by college basketball (which I can totally understand), and he suddenly bolted. Which hurt Michigan.
January 31st, 2024 at 7:02 AM ^
Yaklich seems like a good guy and a decent coach, but people really lost their minds over him. They made him Beilein+, basically.
Aside: I've long been surprised that UIC can't recruit better in Chicago.
January 31st, 2024 at 7:59 AM ^
It didn't really hurt Michigan. As mentioned by others, the team was pretty successful in the immediate aftermath of Beilein's departure.
What hurt Michigan was Juwan's roster construction & culture building. Going after guys like Caleb Houston, Frankie Collins, and Moussa Diabate is not the way to build a program and now we reap the benefits.
Blaming Beilein *at all* is an awful take.
January 31st, 2024 at 7:49 AM ^
He very well could have said in March I’m leaving Michigan with the intent of pursuing an opportunity in the NBA and if that doesn’t work out, I’ll retire. 🤷🏻♂️
January 31st, 2024 at 9:46 AM ^
When discussing the Beilein/Howard transition, you have to take into account how much the college game has changed since Beilein left. NIL and transfers have changed the game overnight, and so has the modern NBA draft.
The game is so different now with a lot more variability and it seems like a roll of the dice as to which blue blood team is having a down year or an up year, as roster management has become a very hard thing to control.
I think we also have to take into account the shockingly low output Juwan got from his top recruits. And yet, they still went straight to the NBA. Nobody here could have predicted that.
All that being said, I would support Ward giving Juwan more time to get a handle of the rapidly changing college basketball landscape. Knowing what we know now, we should be able to chart a course.
January 31st, 2024 at 1:21 AM ^
Uh, what? What does a coach in waiting matter? Howard was a very exciting choice at the time. But, he hasn't panned out.
And roster is everything! Beilein left a ton of talent, Carr chased talent away. Not remotely similar. This is a strange angle to play.
January 31st, 2024 at 5:28 AM ^
I agree that a succession plan should be in place for every head coach, but I put that on Warde not Beilein. As the administrator, Warde should make sure that he has either a succession plan or a clear list of alternatives in place for each of his top revenue generating coaches. This is a business, and it's his job to make sure that things don't fall apart when changes like this happen. This is no different than a GM for a professional sports team.
Similarly with Carr, I put that on Bill Martin for not having a plan. I will say that Carr was a little short sighted to the organization in not helping Bill Martin better prepare for his departure, but it was still Bill's responsibility to be prepared.
January 31st, 2024 at 6:53 AM ^
Bill Martin went out and hired arguably the hottest coach in college football at the time.
Rich Rod failed here for other reasons, but Martin did not make a bad decision.
January 31st, 2024 at 8:30 AM ^
Also, Amaker looked like a really good hire at the time.
January 31st, 2024 at 9:16 AM ^
I'd argue he was an okay hire given what he had to start with, and what he was expected to do.
Amaker was here to restore a bit of integrity to the program - that was priority #1, and he accomplished that in an outstanding way. He just wasn't a great bench coach.
I'd argue that Amaker's leadership was what set us up for Beilein coming on board.
January 31st, 2024 at 10:38 AM ^
Amaker's tenure at Seton Hall wasn't great. We hired him because of one Sweet 16 run.
January 31st, 2024 at 10:50 AM ^
per my comment above, i think we also hired him because he (and his wife) had a solid pedigree of working (and teaching) at high-quality academic institutions. We needed someone who was squeaky clean, and Amaker's balance of that and some recent successes (that frankly far outshone Michigan's in recent history) were pretty apparent.
January 31st, 2024 at 12:20 PM ^
He had had one recent success - he went to the Sweet 16 in 2000. These were his yearly records:
15-15 (9-9 Big East)
15-15 (8-10)
22-10 (10-6)
16-15 (5-11)
That last year had been a disaster for him. His team was in the preseason top 25 (if not 10) but chemistry was terrible. SHU fans were getting sick of him. Michigan offered him an incredible soft landing.
It was mostly the Coach K connection that got him in the door. This was before it was clear how barren K's coaching tree was.
January 31st, 2024 at 8:21 AM ^
You realize that Carr told Martin he was retiring after the the 2006 season. Martin (and maybe others) talked Carr into staying one more year.
January 31st, 2024 at 5:57 AM ^
I will never understand why people think it is the coaches duty to have a succesion plan when they leave. The AD should have a list of multiple potential succesion plan coaches ready for a coaching search.
January 31st, 2024 at 9:01 AM ^
Lloyd Carr did not leave a lot of good players for RR. Take a look at that roster.
January 31st, 2024 at 9:48 AM ^
Any good leader has a back up plan. It is essential to the role. Warde obviously didn't. He really had nothing and reached for a guy because of his name, not abilities. Now he is holding on because of????