Foreign athletes can get NIL (just need to donate to others)
There has been constant references here to the question of whether foreign recruits can sign NIL deals or not.
Athletic (paywall or Times subscription) has story on MSU's Sissoko getting NIL deals but the catch is that none of it can be spent on him (he is building schools and digging wells in home village).
https://theathletic.com/4890124/2023/10/04/michigan-state-mady-sissoko-school/
October 4th, 2023 at 10:36 AM ^
Is it just me or does this rule feel like serious bullshit?
I know it somewhat effected Ojabo’s decision
Could it effect Junior Colson?
Charity is great, but forcing them to donate to charity is not
October 4th, 2023 at 10:38 AM ^
Unless I’m mistaken, Junior Colson was adopted by US Citizens as a child and has been eligible for US citizenship himself for years at this point - I assume he’s a citizen by now.
October 4th, 2023 at 11:42 AM ^
To solve the problem, a foreign player could find an American family for adoption. Not sure how complicated the adoption process is, and how long it might take, and any potential legal pitfalls.
October 4th, 2023 at 12:15 PM ^
Legally disowning your real parents - and potentially preventing them from being able to immigrate here later on - seems like a hefty price to pay to gain some quick NIL cash.
October 4th, 2023 at 12:07 PM ^
A child automatically becomes a citizen when adopted by a citizen.
October 4th, 2023 at 12:15 PM ^
Harbaugh is going to adopt all of the kids at the IMG orphanage.
October 4th, 2023 at 11:36 AM ^
It makes no sense at all.
October 4th, 2023 at 2:17 PM ^
It was likely designed to help the Kentucky guy with a family of 11, IIRC, in the Congo.
October 4th, 2023 at 10:42 AM ^
this article states he has Dual Citizenship:
Junior Colson: From an orphanage in Haiti to Michigan’s top tackler - mlive.com
October 4th, 2023 at 10:44 AM ^
Thats awesome that he's doing that / making the best of a bad situation. Good for him
October 4th, 2023 at 10:46 AM ^
This is remarkably exploitative and shitty.
America is the melting pot - if someone wants to come here and are already contributing to our country by putting their talents to great use, why shouldn't they get a slice of the pie?
October 4th, 2023 at 11:38 AM ^
Welcome to America where you can contribute and kind of participate in what we have to offer.
October 4th, 2023 at 11:44 AM ^
Good point. May be with NIL being a thing, the laws can be amended. But, when one applied to be a student here, they signed up to uphold the laws of this country. Even if this stinks, or doesn't make sense, it's the law until amended.
October 4th, 2023 at 1:16 PM ^
I think there should be a new visa class granted to these players that allow them to receive payments from NIL
October 4th, 2023 at 2:39 PM ^
Look....there's a lot of BS that is happening with NIL and as the wild west of just paying players gets out of control it does suck that foreign players are excluded. But it is far more complex than you're implying.
For now at least, NCAA athletes are still STUDENTS and not EMPLOYEES. As such, you have to look at the immigration/visa rules for those two. For students, the US is allowing you to enter the country, study at our schools, and earn your degree - but not "take jobs" away from US citizens. On a work Visa you're getting approved to work here in the country. I have several employees who require visa sponsorship in order to maintain their ability to work here in the US (and thus get paid).
I don't really think we should change the US immigration laws just for basketball NIL. Perhaps the more logical future is that athletes become employees of the university, get benefits, pay, structured NIL, a voice, etc. In that scenario, you could pay people from outside the US.
October 4th, 2023 at 10:47 AM ^
Mad respect for Sissoko.
October 4th, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^
Agree, but he has no choice (which is the point).
October 4th, 2023 at 10:49 AM ^
Wanted to mention that the issue here is immigration law, not the NCAA necessarily.
The other workarounds I know of are:
- Reclassifying your status from student visa to something where earning money is allowed
- Earning the money abroad
October 4th, 2023 at 10:57 AM ^
People on student visas aren't allowed to have jobs? Never knew that.
October 4th, 2023 at 11:01 AM ^
Or have a youtube channel or IG account that they get paid from? Or sign an autograph for a few bucks?
This is the NCAA, not "immigration law".
October 4th, 2023 at 11:30 AM ^
I don't know what to tell you but this is decidedly an issue with DHS and how students on non-work visas are restricted in how they earn money. I know the default here is to blame to the NCAA for everything but making money in this country when you're not a citizen (or equivalent) has always been tricky and heavily regulated, and the fact NIL is complicating that for student-athletes isn't a shocker.
October 4th, 2023 at 11:13 AM ^
They are allowed to have jobs on campus, and off campus after their first year - but the jobs are highly limited.
F-1 students may not work off-campus during the first academic year, but may accept on-campus employment subject to certain conditions and restrictions. After the first academic year, F-1 students may engage in three types of off-campus employment:
Curricular Practical Training (CPT)
Optional Practical Training (OPT) (pre-completion or post-completion)
Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM) Optional Practical Training Extension (OPT)
F-1 students may also be eligible to work off-campus on a case-by-case basis as a result of special situations such as severe economic hardship or special student relief.
For both F-1 and M-1 students any off-campus training employment must be related to their area of study and must be authorized prior to starting any work by the Designated School Official (the person authorized to maintain the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS)) and USCIS.
October 4th, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^
They can have employment related to their scholarship or study. So TA or RA; may be working for University services, in the Michigan Union, Library, etc. They can work for someone else if that is a part of CPT/Co-Op - Curricular Practical Training (during the degree) or OPT - Optional Practice Training (after graduation).
But they can not work outside for anyone else under the F-1 visa. If they are here on J-1/O-1 visas, then things are different :)
October 4th, 2023 at 3:06 PM ^
Good point. It's not that foreign students can't have income (surely there are Saudi princes studying here who hold interests in U.S. entities that generate income), it's that they can't earn income from U.S. sources except under certain circumstances. But I'm curious to know what those circumstances are. Someone elsewhere mentioned on- & off-campus employment, but is an NIL arrangement employment? I.e. are athletes "employees" of whoever is selling their NIL? Might the work-around be to set up a foreign registered entity with whom they could contract for their NIL income?
October 4th, 2023 at 11:09 AM ^
That's the dumbest rule I've ever heard of. I would "donate" the money to a trust to be held for vague and generic purposes until I went pro.
October 4th, 2023 at 11:14 AM ^
So, an international student can make millions off of NIL - however, they cannot use any of that money to buy a cheeseburger, fries, and a shake or to go out on a date.
But - JC Stroud can drive around in a Mercedes AMG G53, Bijan Robinson can cruise around Austin in a Lamborghini.
Yes - another fine example of "thinking forward" by the NCAA.
October 4th, 2023 at 11:38 AM ^
this is not really an NCAA thing - it's an immigration law. Foreign Student Visas are extremely limited in the scope of jobs they can have. They are limited to jobs in their field of study.
October 4th, 2023 at 11:46 AM ^
The foreign students can drive around in those cars as well, as long as they bought them with money legally obtained under the USCIS rules.
Or they can drive around in cars someone else owns, you know, friends or uncles :) It's just that they can't legally own one bought from their own NIL money.
October 4th, 2023 at 11:21 AM ^
If I was Sissoko, I'd be starting a construction and well digging company back home and sending all donations directly to it.
October 4th, 2023 at 4:41 PM ^
This right here, I see a lot of fake charities getting set up aboard that are actually just bank accounts for these athletes, and good on them if the do it
October 4th, 2023 at 11:26 AM ^
Good job on Sissoko helping to build schools, and unfortunately this is sort of an issue beyond the NCAA because (as the article noted) it gets to how DHS treats "employment" for students here on non-work visas.
For international students engaged in college sports, this brings up the question of whether the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) would consider compensated NIL arrangements as "employment" for purposes of maintaining nonimmigrant status, and if so, whether the student athlete's immigration status permits such employment.
So while I'm all about shitting on the NCAA, this is an issue that you really should (as cliche as it sounds) write to your congressperson and request them either allow such NIL money to be exempted or better define what is considered employment and what isn't such that international students aren't punished in this way.
October 4th, 2023 at 12:02 PM ^
I read something recently about a foreign player getting put onto an O-1 visa (basically, for outstanding competence in a field), which does allow work. To reiterate: none of this is the NCAA's fault. They take a lot of arrows, mostly deservedly so, but this is solely a matter of immigration law.
October 4th, 2023 at 12:23 PM ^
That's a massive stretch, at best. O-1 allows for employment based on outstanding competence in a field, including athletics. I can't possibly imagine any immigration case officer allowing a student-athlete to be considered an employee of a college athletics team as a player vs. a full-time student who participates in amateur athletics.
This is a provision for professional sports leagues, not for college. I'm putting that in the "urban legend/hypothetical someone thought was real" category.
October 4th, 2023 at 12:54 PM ^
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/05/sports/ncaabasketball/hansel-enmanuel-northwestern-state.html
He is in the United States on an O-1A visa, granted to individuals with extraordinary abilities, which makes him the rare foreign college athlete who can earn money in the United States on endorsements. His contract with Adidas runs through the 2025-26 season.
This isn't actually the story I was reading -- I was reading one that was written about his upcoming season at Austin Peay -- but it contains the same information.
October 4th, 2023 at 1:39 PM ^
From what I can find, Oscar Tshiebwe tried--and failed--to get an O-1 visa. I wonder what makes it so seemingly inconsistently applied.
And Enmanuel is the only apparent successful case. Not sure how many others have tried.
October 4th, 2023 at 2:20 PM ^
I think it's pretty consistently applied - you don't get one, but there are a couple of exceptions, including that college bball player with 1 arm.
October 4th, 2023 at 2:20 PM ^
I wonder how much the fact he has one arm played into it. That said...
While Enmanuel obtained an O-1 visa, most athletes better fit into the P-1 category. In practice, however, Department of Homeland Security regulations require that P-1 applicants demonstrate they will participate in competitions that require internationally recognized athletes, said Ksenia Maiorova, a sports immigration attorney based in Orlando.
Applicants therefore struggle to meet criteria for less prominent competition, especially in women’s sports, she said. “What we’re really talking about is marquee Olympic sports and men’s sports that are feeders into the major leagues,” she said.
Those standards for P-1 visas also don’t match the objective of NIL rules, which were crafted to allow compensation opportunities for less prominent athletes as well as future pros, Maiorova said....
As a result, she and other immigration attorneys have asked DHS to issue new guidance that reclassifies NIL deals as permissible campus employment under student visas.
October 4th, 2023 at 12:03 PM ^
ITT
People who forgot we have a federal government with laws that supersede the NCAA's rules.
October 4th, 2023 at 12:04 PM ^
My God, they really are stealing all our jobs!!!
October 4th, 2023 at 12:06 PM ^
I don't practice immigration law, but these guys aren't technically employed by the collectives or whomever, right? Even under immigration law, you can't be a contractor? Or do a side hustle?
October 4th, 2023 at 12:20 PM ^
Visas are very restricted. All student visas are more so. They are also non-immigrant visas, mostly. So further restrictions.
October 4th, 2023 at 1:03 PM ^
In general, no, you cannot be self-employed on a visa that does not allow employment.
October 4th, 2023 at 4:33 PM ^
Dude, you can access the athletic with a NYT subscription? Gonna kick myself if I've been missing out on using my one subscription for both for years
October 4th, 2023 at 6:04 PM ^
If you have NY Times All Access or home delivery, then yes you get the athletic. I think the all access tier is $25/month.
October 4th, 2023 at 8:15 PM ^
I think it is still 12.50/Month for education (students, teachers, faculty). That's what I pay.
October 4th, 2023 at 6:22 PM ^
The NYT cut its sports desk this summer and uses The Athletic instead.