Sherrone Moore & Mike Elston Appreciation Thread
It has been many years since I have seen such a dominant performance on both sides of the trenches against a top 10-rated team. Full credit to Coach Moore, Coach Elston, and everyone involved recruiting the big guys up front.
We had great, some might argue exceptional O and D lines last year. And when units excel that much in college it is usually because they're stocked with seniors. It's truly amazing how we have been able to reload. This is how Michigan football used to be...dominant.
If I was an OL or DL high school recruit looking for a program that could help me get to the next level, Michigan would be at the top of my list.
Go Blue!
October 16th, 2022 at 6:21 PM ^
I'm going to add minter. We complained a lot about him, but the defense has not only been great, they've made adjustments and seem to get stronger in the second half. Even moreso, things that work early against us a game, don't later on
October 16th, 2022 at 6:23 PM ^
Who on earth complained about Minter? His defense has been excellent throughout the year.
October 16th, 2022 at 6:34 PM ^
There is a vocal minority who can impressively complain about anything. We have a top 10 offense and defense per advanced metrics and are 19-2 in last 21 and likely will be double digit favorites in every remaining game until OSU. Sheesh people.
October 16th, 2022 at 7:17 PM ^
Sending two DBs out to cover three WR seems like constructive criticism though...it happened. It's ok to question the scheme at that point and still overall approve of and even embrace Minter.
October 16th, 2022 at 8:16 PM ^
Do you honestly think his scheme is to cover 3 WR with 2 CB? Or, is it possible some 19-20 year old amateur athlete made a mistake?
October 16th, 2022 at 8:59 PM ^
I mean it was for a half in a meaningless game. Clearly they weren’t too worried about it and absolutely shut everything down in the second half. Then, they absolutely embarrassed PSU but sure let’s freak out about our screen coverage in first quarter against indiana in a game where we gave up 10 points total.
October 16th, 2022 at 7:25 PM ^
Remember that time, in 2016, when people thought Frames Janklin was a better coach than Jim Harbaugh because they lucked into the B1G championship with two fluke kick/punt blocks against OSU in a white out game, despite Michigan beating PSU 49-10?
*Not to mention UM lost to Iowa on a last second FG on the road and the 3 point robbery in the Shoe?
Also remember Harbaugh haters telling us how a guy with a .500 career record at 3 mediocre college coaching stops is a better coach (and worth $95mm over 10 years guaranteed, lol) than a guy who won the Pac12, an NFC Championship, and a B1G Championship ; because of 2 flukey wins in their "Super Bowl" against UM - one in a Covid year?
Yeah, me neither.
Jim' was knocking on the door at UM for a while now. Took longer than most of us expected (much due to some snake bittten moments - 2015 MSU, 2016 OSU), but glad we had our first breakthrough last year and hoping for continued and greater success going forward.
Here's to a 50 point blowout against Sharty and their fraudulent coach and setting the record straight.
October 16th, 2022 at 7:48 PM ^
Harbaugh honestly could not have had worse luck his first few years at U-M. Think about all the shit that went against him. His first game against Utah, the luckiest win of all time for Sparty, the ridiculous 2016 field goal from Iowa, JT was short, O'Korn's three interceptions, the incredibly frustrating 2018 one-score loss at Notre Dame, Bell's dropped pass at Happy Valley. It's comical really--like the guy was cursed.
Jim lost his swagger with all this shit luck going against him. It makes me a little sad, cause the guy is a fucking stud coach. He deserved last year so much. And I don't think there's a better college coach outside of Saban and maybe a couple others.
October 16th, 2022 at 8:14 PM ^
Totally agree. It was approaching absurdity how unlucky Jim was those first few years at UM, but only us UM fans who watched the games really knew - everyone else just sees wins and losses - as it should be.
Saban has benefitted greatly from building a semi-pro team down south with rosters of all 4 and 5 star NFL talent. His program has become an automation of reloading players and staff - with tiny cracks just now beginning to surface. That said, he was a great coach before that at MSU and LSU. And he micromanaged his Bama tenure to get it to the point of a football dynasty.
Meyer, built a similar semi-pro machine at OSU and UF, and before that was a great coach at Utah.
That said, both those coaches couldn't cut it in the NFL - especially Meyer who cracked about 6 games into his first year. Saban, imo, is a step above Meyer in that not only did he run Meyer out of the SEC, "with health problems", but OSU won just 1 national title in the Meyer era, despite having the 2nd most NFL talent over his tenure. Meyer left a lot of meat on that bone if we're going tbh.
I don't think anyone doubts that Jim could build UM into an elite, dominant force in CFB if we go all in on recruiting like the SEC or OSU. Jim Harbaugh has won everywhere he's been, and like many other great coaches has had to reinvent himself and change along the way.
October 16th, 2022 at 8:20 PM ^
So well said man. Don't forget the 2016 debacle in Columbus as well. Worst officiated game I've ever seen in my life.
October 16th, 2022 at 8:40 PM ^
Even last years MSU game was a bull shit outcome. 7 for 7 on “official” reviews is just not believable.
It’s somewhat poetic that his greatest season coaching Michigan included the asterisk MSU game.
Fuel for what’s about to happen in two weeks. I think we are going to beat the absolute shit out of MSU no holds barred with an open game plan into the 4th quarter.
October 17th, 2022 at 12:20 AM ^
Minor nitpick: Harbaugh never won the Pac-12 (which was the Pac-10 when he was at Stanford). He did lead Stanford to a 12-1 record and a BCS bowl win over Virginia Tech, but it was Oregon that won the Pac-10 that year.
October 16th, 2022 at 6:43 PM ^
I don’t know if anyone really complained, but there was some sentiment that he was a rather uninspiring hire.
7 weeks in though, if we had to let McDonald go, what a genius move to scoop back up the 1b candidate from the same system and the same organization. And man does it pay to have good connections in the NFL!
October 16th, 2022 at 8:06 PM ^
Which is why we should all be Ravens fans at least as a secondary team. John Harbaugh is a blessing.
October 16th, 2022 at 8:54 PM ^
I agree .John supports his brother and Michigan all the time in little ways. Then every once in a while he will throw throw something at them like our current defensive scheme and last 2 coordinators. nice!
October 16th, 2022 at 6:47 PM ^
There's a lot of complaining about him during games. As said below, quite honestly, there's a lot of bitching about everyone.
But I don't hear anyone giving the guy credit. Maybe it'll work out maybe not.. But in my opinion, this team is playing above their head on defense, and getting better each week
October 16th, 2022 at 7:47 PM ^
There's your problem--taking anything anyone who appears on this board seriously during a game.
October 17th, 2022 at 2:04 AM ^
You nailed it, 'MGlobules'---the weekly football game threads are badly infected with the most toxic of hawt takes. Because I have season tickets, I'm fortunate to be able to escape monitoring them most weeks. During road games, though, I peek in just frequently enough (while trying to enjoy the televised game) that I'm able to see just how very awful a small but vocal portion of the participants can be with their toxic complaints.
I pity poor LSA for going through those threads for his weekly The State of Our Open Threads diaries.
October 16th, 2022 at 6:50 PM ^
Vandy was 108th and 118th in defense last year with good numbers in red zone and interceptions. Some thought Michigan/Harbaugh could have found a bigger name.
I trust Jim Harbaugh and I don't recall a bigger name being available. (My opinion is worth what you pay for it.)
October 16th, 2022 at 7:26 PM ^
But it’s Vandy. Even worse recruiting and football history than Northwestern in the B1G. Not much to work with.
October 17th, 2022 at 12:13 AM ^
I have literally heard no one complain about Minter.
October 17th, 2022 at 12:22 AM ^
well he was born in 1974
and you died in 1949
so
yeah
October 17th, 2022 at 2:39 PM ^
Welp! That settles it then!
October 17th, 2022 at 6:37 PM ^
Yes, you to complained about about Minter cause you don't know shit...
October 16th, 2022 at 6:31 PM ^
Huge shout out to Moore, Weiss’ run game influence from the ravens (maybe credit to John too), hart’s impeccable coaching, the kids and finally Harbaugh’s love for a good run game. It took some time for coach ti fully adapt to todays college game but he’s right where i thought he’d have us. Might not be the sexy 400 yard passing games but it’s just as efficient. Just ask Ohio ;)
October 16th, 2022 at 7:28 PM ^
Jaybaugh will not go quietly into that goodnight.
October 16th, 2022 at 9:01 PM ^
You’re correct. He recruited the RBs we have. My over arching point is that Harbaugh has found a way to be successful his way. Took some trial and error but here we are.10 wins a year will never get old.
October 17th, 2022 at 9:58 AM ^
Jay Harbaugh should be promoted to Assoc Head Coach and cemented in the line of succession. There, I said it.
October 16th, 2022 at 6:32 PM ^
I realize that comparisons are never 1:1, but I thought last year's performance against Ohio State was equally dominant, given that OSU had a much better offense than this year's PSU.
Nonetheless, I loved what I saw yesterday!
October 16th, 2022 at 9:22 PM ^
OSU’s defense was not vintage last year. PSU’s cornerbacks we’re better, safeties worse, linebackers about the same, but OSU’s DL was better against the run, but not by that much. Not that much difference between the two, but your right, OSU’s offense was worlds better that what PSU put out there. Both games have a place in my heart, don’t make me choose which of my children I love more. (It’s OSU)
October 17th, 2022 at 12:24 AM ^
Yesterday's win was great, but the sheer euphoria and catharsis of last year's win in The Game will be difficult to top (though a win in Columbus might just do the trick).
October 16th, 2022 at 6:34 PM ^
The OL performance has been especially good for two years. I’d love to see it translate to some 2023 flips to add to the recruiting class.
October 16th, 2022 at 6:34 PM ^
Absolutely. Very well coached OL & DL for Michigan. Each coach deserves their own appreciation thread as well.
October 16th, 2022 at 6:35 PM ^
Please please may we have full staff continuity for a couple years.
October 16th, 2022 at 6:38 PM ^
I ‘memba being at Camp Randall in 2019. JT was running a train against M. BMFM himself was playing DT. That game was the most helpless, lol, I’ve ever felt as a fan of the team. Yes, this includes 2007 Oregon.
Now look at the interior DL depth. Graham? Benny? KENNY MOFO GRANT?! Rooks? Ike? 😁😁😁
Thankful to have Elston at the helm. Seems like he’ll be at M for a while or at least I hope!
October 16th, 2022 at 6:52 PM ^
Mine was in 2010 with Montee Ball and James White. In that game, we got it back to within 10 points after being completely dominated, and then they stopped passing. Watching Wisconsin run the ball 30 times in a row and knowing that there was nothing we could do to stop it sucked.
October 16th, 2022 at 7:03 PM ^
I think that had to do with how Don Brown wanted his D-Lines to look. My understanding was that he wanted more undersized athletic guys on the line which of course didn't cut it in the B1G.
October 16th, 2022 at 7:21 PM ^
The same issue is what plagued PSU. Their DL is undersized besides Mustipher. The other 3 starters weigh 243, 258, and 263. It’s hard to not get mauled by 300+ OL at those weights.
October 16th, 2022 at 7:51 PM ^
Frames admitted as much in his postgame presser. I was actually pretty shocked to hear him admit it on the record that his players are "too small." Can't feel great as his defensive linemen to hear that.
October 16th, 2022 at 8:25 PM ^
And this is why the SEC and Clemson have dominated CFB for the past 20 years, something like 17 of the last 20 national titles.
They have d-lines with size and speed. They just grow them differently down south, something in the water I guess. And not a coincidence that our breakthrough nearly came in 2016 (with a great D-line) and finally last year with Ojabo And Hutchinson. We then ran into UGA which had Hutchinson level talent across their D-line (and at every level of their defense tbf), and we saw how that turned out.
QB and D-line are by far the most import positions on the field in football (college or pro). They impact every single play. O-line follows closely, as they are the deterrent to getting wrecked by a defense.
This is why recruiting rankings, while important and accurate, would probably be even more accurate in determining success if they put greater weight on positions like D-line and QB.
The variance to future outcomes from getting a 5 star WR or DB just isn't as high as getting a 5 star edge or DT.
October 16th, 2022 at 6:45 PM ^
I don't believe you can talk about the job that Moore and Elston have done without including Ben Herbert in the discussion. He is literally turning our lineman on both sides of the ball into monsters. Not to mention the way he is making guys leaner and faster at the skill positions. Not sure what he makes, but he's one coach who deserves a lot of credit and a raise.
October 16th, 2022 at 8:54 PM ^
The Joe Moore award is on display in the weight room, that’s where it all started.
October 16th, 2022 at 6:45 PM ^
From what we saw yesterday, Ben Herbert and the rest of the strength and conditioning staff should take a bow as well.
October 16th, 2022 at 6:48 PM ^
What has been amazing to me is how much depth our o-line seems to have right now. Getting Mason Graham already playing at the level that he does helps, but we are seeing some very positive things from obviously the top guys (Mazi, Jenkins, Morris) but then we are getting really good reps from MG, Harrell, Okie, Moore, and even Upshaw. Then at times Kenneth Grant was in the game yesterday during at least one important series. Our D-line has completely exceeded expectations which has been huge so far this year. There is no was another team has more depth than us at that position in the B1G. Sherrone Moore has done an amazing job but at this point, I just expect us to be good at that position as long as Harbaugh is our coach. Pretty amazing where we are right now after some of the years we have faced with both of these positions in the last 15 years.
October 16th, 2022 at 8:18 PM ^
I forgot to add Benny as he has definitely played more than just garbage time. Pretty amazing some of the guys who have improved this year to allow us to be where we are right now. Most of us thought McGreggor was going to be the guy, but here came Okie. Our depth is set up to be very nice for the next couple of years and that is without even knowing who else is going to emerge. I am really thankful Harbaugh knows how to build a coaching staff.
October 16th, 2022 at 7:22 PM ^
Elston and Minter had the biggest shoes to fill and have been pleased with both of them lots. I was bummed when Hinton Jr jumped to the NFL (he was later undrafted and then cut and is maybe on someone's practice squad now) because felt we needed his big body and depth for the newer DL. Mazi has been for real and Hinton would just be in a rotation (but maybe building his NFL stock to at least get drafted).
I was at the 2010 Wisky game (ended up being RR's last home game at UM) and the 2nd half was especially brutal - and that's saying something since we trailed 24-0 at half. We made a run at them only to have them go turtle ball, but bursting off long runs and not crawling. Realized then that RR would not make it as a B1G coach since he wanted small and fast guys on D. MSU and OSU ran it down our throats that year too.
The 2019 Wisky game - I saw the score was 14 or 21 to 0 and never turned it on. That was also the day I realized that Shea was a better amateur golfer than B1G QB. Too bad Dylan got concussed because I think JH was ready to pull the plug on the guy who spent the summer golfing instead of developing a stronger bond and practice habits with Nico, DPJ, and Tarik.
October 16th, 2022 at 7:31 PM ^
Every time I see one of these I think of the gibbons appreciation thread
October 16th, 2022 at 7:37 PM ^
I was in Section 12 South EZ and had great views of the field and the formations. The blocking was so dominant that you could see a lot of plays were going to be getting at least 5 yards even before the RB had taken a few steps.
On D I think we rushed 4 most of the game and only dialed up a few blitzes. We kept Clifford contained but for the one bust. At least the coaches will show film of that to help us prevent Thorne from getting away with something like that in 2 weeks.
The LBs, after getting burned a lot the past few weeks, seemed to be in better position.
Cudos to Clinkscale as well. We held our own deep even when the PSU QB had some time to throw. I can't believe how much better Gemon Green looks vs. two years ago during the horror show vs. Rocky Lombardi. He will be motivated to make life miserable for Sparty.
October 16th, 2022 at 8:20 PM ^
Yep, total appreciation -- but I'm going to praise all the coaches, from Harbaugh on down. We have seriously RELOADED this year after losing so much. Coaches are crushing it.
I mean, we have great players too, but man, they are getting coached up. Love to see it.
October 16th, 2022 at 9:16 PM ^
The first half of your point stands: great output by the OL and DL yesterday. Elston and Moore desert be a lot of credit.
As for the second point: the recruits are not showing up. No shot at Elston or Moore, the recruiting landscape is clearly focused on NIL or other factors as so many teams well ahead of UM (ND, MSU, Miami, LSU, UF, OU, TAMU) absolutely stink and several of them have completely unproven staffs. ND is the best example.