OT: New Pony & NAIAS (Talking Cars Tuesday)
I know it's Thursday, but oh well. Also, we're in season but between 2 games where Michigan is a 50 point favorite, and well, there's an "all new" Mustang.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a41200568/2024-ford-mustang-revealed/
It's also NAIAS - the Detroit Auto Show - during it's new summer timeslot with outdoor showcases and the like. Anyone attending? Any thoughts on the season change?
Thoughts on the next-gen Mustang? Looks like it shares the Body-In-White with the S550, I'm curious whether this is going to get called a "lazy refresh" similar to the new Nissan Z - which shares a lot with the previous gen. The Mustang even keeps the same engines, but it's a Mustang so... Mustangs are cool.
September 15th, 2022 at 8:54 AM ^
Serious question; who will go to these shows when the electric car goals are met? I see it by then as picking appliances. Since these are now not American car companies but international propulsion manufacturers by their own executive words.
September 15th, 2022 at 9:00 AM ^
Why is it different? People go to look at the body and interior of cars, not drive or hear the engines rev.
I also think you're going to see a lot of accessory/options advertised that are now available due to electric vehicles. An F-150 lightning is going to be powering a stage. A Rivian truck is going to be setup to let you play with the camping accessories.
September 15th, 2022 at 9:59 AM ^
Let's just say I am more of a hybrid guy and concerned about baby with the bathwater trends completely unsupported by electric only reality. Cool yes, practical no, for most folks.
I say all this as a stick shift challenger scatpack or Hellcat fan who appreciates the Mustang improvements of the last 10 years and is not a camaro fan despite coming from a GM family that owned two growing up.
September 15th, 2022 at 9:25 AM ^
Even before we had our kid when we went to the auto show it was a great way to check out a ton of cars without salespeople pressure. Which trunk has too high a lift over height? How are the ergonomics of putting a car seat in back? Is there enough room for someone in the back seat? They're great if you're car shopping.
September 15th, 2022 at 9:37 AM ^
Automotive suppliers send a ton of their employees to these shows for fun, to have a first-hand look at what their competition is up to, and as a data point for current trends. Everything from paint to displays to seating to glass (and everything in between) is heavily scrutinized.
September 15th, 2022 at 8:56 AM ^
It doesn't look new... and everything the article mentions besides the dash just sounds like "we fixed stuff that tuners told us we did wrong before".
This seems like a "we're on a budget for ICE vehicles" so let's pretend this is "a new generation Mustang" when in reality it's a mid-cycle.
September 15th, 2022 at 9:00 AM ^
...and Roush made Mustangs cool again, agreed.
September 15th, 2022 at 9:04 AM ^
In 2 or 3 years when I'm cross-shopping V8 coupe/sedans I'm going to be happy for the "lazy" refresh over what GM and Dodge will have on offer.
Seriously though. Both the Z and the Mustang look great again. I don't understand the need to completely redo some seriously great cars with the lack of volume these segments currently have.
September 15th, 2022 at 9:24 AM ^
The good news is there are still a LOT of options for "fun" cars out there, with varying amounts of power and budget. Just off the top of my head:
Mustang
Challenger
Camaro
Miata
FRS/BRZ
Golf GTI/R
WRX/STI
Corolla GR
Hyundai Ns
and that's without getting into more expensive stuff like BMW Ms, AMGs, Audis, etc. Some of these might not be offered in the next 3-5 years, but they're there now!
September 15th, 2022 at 9:49 AM ^
A muscle car has to have a V8. I'm not 25, I'm not buying a WRX with a CVT and thinking it's something other than a Crosstrek without the lift.
The Lexus IS500 is probably the only other car I'd consider that isn't being discontinued in the next 2 years. Disappointing when the most American car company left is Toyota.
September 15th, 2022 at 10:23 AM ^
I'll bite. What makes Toyota more American than GM/Ford?
September 15th, 2022 at 1:02 PM ^
Toyota and Lexus are interchangeable to me, so this list crosses both brands:
V8 sedan
V8 coupe
Full size truck (alas, no V8)
Mid sized truck with 6 foot bed (and a stick!)
large comfy sedan
econobox sedan
hatchback
body on frame SUV
And of course every kind of generic American SUV everyone else has
Yes yes, I'm old, but everything above is American as I know it. And no one else offers a more comprehensive lineup of these. I'm a GM loyalist, and have 2 in my driveway. But time is running out for them to convince me to buy another.
September 15th, 2022 at 7:54 PM ^
except the challenger and camaro are both gone after 2023 i believe.
September 15th, 2022 at 9:22 AM ^
My grandmother would drive us to school in my Uncle Jim's 5.0 Mustang. She was always playing Anita Baker in the car. :-D
September 15th, 2022 at 9:41 AM ^
If you consider just the silhouette of the Gen 7 Mustang, it is starting to resemble shape of the original Camaros and Firebirds (no, I am not smoking anything and not a GM fanboy) more than the original Mustang.
September 15th, 2022 at 9:42 AM ^
the current e-mustang looks like a fiesta that wears axe spray and is a rutgers/state fan
so yeah, this 2024 is better and yes, gas powered is very nice.
September 15th, 2022 at 11:07 AM ^
As you may know, the Mach-E BEV is on the Escape platform. It’s only called a “Mustang” to make it sound more exciting for marketing, but it shares almost nothing except some styling cues with the real ICE/gas Mustang platform. It’s a totally different car.
The “new” ‘24 S650 gas Mustang hasn’t been changed much, there are a lot of carryover parts underneath (which is actually good) so it’s really not a new generation. It looks a little different but not much. Not sure about the power train technology though. I did hear that Bill Ford wants to enter it the 24 Hr LeMans race, but that’ll be a customized race car.
September 15th, 2022 at 11:39 AM ^
fiesta, escape, there all the same to me! kidding aside, no, i didn't know what the platform was. i can see the reason for using the mustang 'tag', but given its very unsporty look, if i was head of marketing at ford we would've used a different name. the mustang is iconic. the e-mach is bleh in appearance, though i do recognize high B's comment below about its quick-acceleration.
September 15th, 2022 at 11:50 AM ^
To me, it looks sportier than a Tesla. I also read that some earlier proposals were dull and boring, and the current style was the exciting version!
September 15th, 2022 at 7:56 PM ^
tesla bodies i think were designed by utility and not visual appeal.
September 15th, 2022 at 8:08 PM ^
yes sometimes carry over is ok. when my oldest daughters 2018 mustang 2.3t with 10A got 2k miles on it took it to the trails for a run. dry hopped the tires and put it in appropriate mode and it ripped a 13.78 with 2 of us in it on an 80+ degree evening. ive owned a handful of v8 mustangs over the years and a couple v8 camaros over the years, and none of them werè 13 second cars out of the box that got 37mph when i drove them home from 2hrs away when purchased. crazy. i will be ordering a 2024 2.3t 10A for my youngest daughter for next year although will miss her birthday by a few months. too bad i wont be able to haggle the price down 8k like the last one.
September 15th, 2022 at 11:29 AM ^
In GT form, the Mach-E (as unlovely as it may seem) is quite "entertaining" from a stoplight. 600+ pound feet of torque from a standstill, with AWD.
Edit: it is quite bugly and handles like a whale, but it is stupid quick when pointed only forward.
September 15th, 2022 at 8:08 PM ^
The proud owners, spray tan matches exterior....
September 15th, 2022 at 9:45 PM ^
EGJ, you have a knack for the exact picture.
September 15th, 2022 at 9:51 AM ^
Mustangs *are* cool and the Coyote is probably the best sounding 8 on the market, followed closely by the various Dodge Hemis. Next gen Mustang is a good looking ride and the cleaned up dash is nice too.
Not attending, unfortunately. Much too far to travel. And, kind of looking forward to the cooler season (if only I could find a way to make the snow disappear from the roof and driveway).
September 15th, 2022 at 10:18 AM ^
I think the GM 6.2 is God's engine. You can't make that one sound anything other than awesome. I'm sure we all like what we like or are used to in this case.
But in general, V8 sound is V8 sound, and nothing can replace it, no matter how many speakers Dodge wants to put under their new electrics.
September 15th, 2022 at 10:31 AM ^
Best sounding 8 on the market? I'll take the Z06 (cammed with an Akrapovic is just...ugh).
September 15th, 2022 at 11:22 AM ^
UNFAIR !!! I'm throwing a flag on this one for "unsportsmanlike something something". Cammed is a whole other game for lovely, beautifully lumpy music. I was only thinking stock motors in stock, from the dealer lot, cars.
I have that LT4 in a ZO6 and, while it's beautiful at full roar, to my ear, the Coyote gets the gold, Hemis get the silver, and GM's 8 gets the bronze for the award for "best soundtrack in a factory eight" competition. Forget power curves, I'm just talking about soundtracks.
Best cammed engine I ever heard in a car was the 426 Hemi in a garage project Charger.
Best cammed engine I ever heard, period, was a Donovan big block (triples, actually) in an old Apache race boat. Could knock animals and small children over. Wonderful !!!
September 15th, 2022 at 9:54 AM ^
I don’t understand why they even bother with these. The budget for the refresh is damn near zero, and the target market is 25-35 year olds who are willing to take out massive car loans. It’s a sad car for a sad market. I guess it’s better than a Stellantis product, so it’s got that going for it, which is nice.
September 15th, 2022 at 11:41 AM ^
Something must be changed or nobody would buy them anymore. What’s interesting is that Tesla hasn’t changed any of their models much. I heard that the current cycle plans of changes every 7 yrs or so with a mid-cycle refresh may be extended quite a bit with BEVs
September 15th, 2022 at 10:25 AM ^
The rear lines are very Camaro-esque, which is fine, it looks good, but seems a bit copy-cat-ish. I've always preferred Mustangs for some reason, but if I'm being honest, in terms of performance, the Camaro has consistently out-classed it on the base V8 model overall for the last 5+ years. I've heard it said that the Mustang feels like a muscle car while the Camaro feels like a sports car. We'll see how this "refresh" performs.
The one area where this new 'stang destroys the Camaro though is on the interior. The current Camaro interior is absolutely putrid and is almost comical how terrible it is.
September 15th, 2022 at 11:18 AM ^
From a lifelong GM owner, most GM interiors in general have been comically putrid for quite some time.
September 15th, 2022 at 11:26 AM ^
It's funny, the interior of the Camaro was pretty nice when it came out. It aged very poorly. The biggest problems with the Camaro are the mail slot trunk and the pillbox feel inside (other than the terrible interior).
I'd think if they raised the roof/seating about an inch, and made it a fastback/hatchback it would be perfect. Sadly, it doesn't appear they are going to bother past 2024.
I do agree, performance-wise it's the best of the current gen muscle cars. So good I'm almost willing to overlook the issues it has. But not good enough for me to not defer the choice for a few years (at which time it may be moot).
September 15th, 2022 at 11:41 AM ^
I'm one of those people that doesn't care about the interior of a car at all. Exterior, and all the accompanying bits are what makes a car what it is.
September 15th, 2022 at 1:08 PM ^
interesting. i'm the opposite, since the inside is where i sit and look at things from.
i clean the interior of my truck once a week. i don't think i've been to a car wash since june.
September 15th, 2022 at 7:43 PM ^
Pardon my pentantic words that follow: might want to wash the exterior occasionally, even if it's just to remove the bird crap and tree sap. Those two bits of nastiness will wreak havoc on paint, even the clear coated ones. 😒
September 15th, 2022 at 10:59 AM ^
It looks like a sad love child of the Challenger and the new Supra. Blah-mobile.
September 15th, 2022 at 11:16 AM ^
Those Camaros look weird
September 15th, 2022 at 11:43 AM ^
I had a colleague years ago who drove a red mustang convertible. One of the shittiest cars I've ever ridden in. Cheap, plastic components, loud as hell, absolutely no pickup, drove like a boat. Maybe they're better now but that turned me off Mustangs forever.
September 15th, 2022 at 11:55 AM ^
I hate the trend of gluing ipads on to the dash. It looks ridiculous. Can we please put the screens back into the dash?
September 15th, 2022 at 1:14 PM ^
"how can you have a 48-inch tv as a dash AND have it inserted into the dash? it absolutely must be glued on ..."
--all car execs, probably--
September 15th, 2022 at 1:13 PM ^
i actually like this mustang, but i have bad taste. loved the fox bodies (most people seem to hate them) and hated just about every iteration since then. but i drive a truck and likely always will so i am not their target demographic
September 15th, 2022 at 2:15 PM ^
Zero chance I ever even look at a Mustang, but I don't mind the update. If I were going to buy something with a V8 it would definitely be larger. Hello, Stellantis.
I went to the NAIAS a few times over the years, especially while living in Ann Arbor and it was always a fun experience, something to look forward to in an otherwise blah part of the year. I'm sure it's not the same being all downsized and everything, but would still be fun.
September 15th, 2022 at 6:26 PM ^
I’m good with my 6th gen.
September 15th, 2022 at 7:45 PM ^
Very, very nice ride!
September 16th, 2022 at 8:06 AM ^
How's the bronco? I'm a Jeep guy but I like and appreciate the new broncos as well, competition is good!
September 16th, 2022 at 12:15 PM ^
It’s awesome, very happy with it. Ford did a phenomenal job with it - if only they could get their supply chain issues fixed.