I bet Bryan wishes he could have bet this picture would lead this post [Bryan Fuller]

Preview 2022: Quarterback Comment Count

Brian August 29th, 2022 at 2:16 PM

Previously: Podcast 14.0A, 14.0B, 14.0C. The Story

QUARTERBACK: PARTY LIKE IT'S 1999

GRADE: 4.5

QUARTERBACK Yr
Cade McNamara Jr.*
JJ McCarthy Fr.*
Davis Warren Fr.*

Back at the tail end of the last century, Michigan had a quarterback controversy. There was a cerebral guy who didn't blow anyone away physically; there was a dual-threat guy who had all the potential in the world but was a bit younger and less proven. Tom Brady and Drew Henson split snaps for the bulk of the 1999 season as message boards rabbled about who should have the crown. A decision was only made late in the year; by the time Brady was entrusted with leading a stirring comeback against #6 Penn State in Happy Valley everyone knew who the man was, man.

Twenty-three years later we've got a remake in the works, except this time Michigan's coming off a championship. Cade McNamara led Michigan to a win over Ohio State and a Big Ten title and pretty much the entire fanbase wants to put him on the bench in favor of JJ McCarthy. "What have you done for me lately" doesn't quite cover it.

But… I mean… you know. It's not crazy. It's sufficiently sane that Harbaugh announced a slightly insane thing: McNamara will start the opener; McCarthy will start against Hawaii, and then they'll make a decision.

BRADY ANALOGUE

51713718549_4b3eb5e74c_c

cade: remember this? everyone: no [Bryan Fuller]

Analogue, people. Please vacate Ann Arbor Torch & Pitchfork. Our cerebral game manager type without the electric athleticism is CADE MCNAMARA, you know, the starting quarterback for the Big Ten champion Michigan Wolverines. Everyone wants to pitch him overboard, naturally. And, I mean… ok, yeah. Pro Football Focus listed him 29th in their college-only QB projections, third in the league behind CJ Stroud and Aidan O'Connell. That's okay! It's definitely okay.

[After THE JUMP: HENSON ANALOGUE]

---------------------

It doesn't feel like enough to beat Ohio State, at Ohio State, without Hassan Haskins, and with a functional defensive system on the other side of the ball. The trajectory here could argue otherwise, though?

CADE MCNAMARA

  Good   Neutral   Bad   Ovr   Reads
Game DO CA SCR   PR MA   BA TA IN BR   DSR GRADE!   RPOs ZRs
W. Michigan 3+ 3(3)-           2     1   67% +5   4/5 2/7
Washington 1 3(2)-     2 (1)     3 1(1) 2   40% -8   5/5 4/9
NIU 2 7+ -     1 1             100% +11   1/2 1/2
Rutgers 3+ 5-     1 1       5xx 1   57% +2.5   2/2 1/6
Wisconsin 6 13 1   1 2   1 1 4x 2x   71% +10.5   2/3 1/2
Nebraska 3+ 13(2)-     3 6   3 3 6 1x   55% -1.5   1/3 2/2
Northwestern 2 11(5)+     2 2   1 3 4xx 1   59% -1   5/7 5/8
Michigan St 9++ 19(1)+ - 1   1 1   2 5 5 4   64% +20.5   1/2 1/1
Indiana 4 8(1) 1   4       1 1 1   81% +10   0/0 3/6
Penn State 4+ 8+++(2)     2 4   3 3 3     57% +0   0/0 0/1
Maryland 5 14++(1) 1     2   2 3 1 1   74% +14.5   0/3 5/9
Ohio State 3 7++(2) 1   3 3     1 1 1x   79% +14   3/3 -
Iowa 3++ 7+(2)     2 4     2 2 1x   67% +2   3/3 1/3
Georgia 3++ 4(4) 1   3 1   2 5x 2 1x   44% +3   0/2 1/1

That's not a full Rudockening but it's not that far away.

McNamara got a ton of time in high school and was the kind of guy who's got a QB coach by the time he's in middle school, and that paid off. Seth frequently talked about McNamara's ability to read the defense before the snap and get Michigan into good plays (or pick the best option when he had a passing down). There was no better example of this than Roman Wilson's skinny post touchdown against Penn State, when PSU's adjustment to Michigan's running game provided McNamara with the opportunity to see a guy playing cover one on a a hashmark—not down the middle of the field:

…if you scroll back up to the video you can see PSU was leaving their other safety on the hash mark. Gattis picked up on that and used it to score Michigan’s first touchdown. Here again you see Brisker, #1, walking down on our right, and #16 staying much higher on the field side. But #16 still has to play one-high, meaning he’s in the wrong spot to help in cover 1 if you send a fast Hawaiian down the seam.

Press man across the board on third and fifteen? No problem, back shoulder.

When the presnap alignment of the defense didn't give away the game, things were considerably rockier. One of the ongoing themes of Sam Webb's WTKA segments with Devin Gardner was Gardner (presumably) clutching his head in agony at the shots that were there but un-taken. Some quarterbacks will fling the ball into double coverage; McNamara almost did not attempt a bomb when the receiver was plausibly covered one-on-one. In part this was the nature of the receiving corps, what with the running by everyone, but Cornelius Johnson is a large leaping person and was almost never given a go-get-it ball.

The real shame of it was that when McNamara did unleash the dragon the results were close to great. Seth clipped a ton of dead-on bombs, zips down the seam, and in-stride shots:

McNamara wasn't perfect—Northwestern was oddly his nadir in this department—but what stands out in all these clips is how the catches are made. Nobody's laying out or high-pointing a ball that's way too short. All of them are bang on the money. The flip side of the hesitancy was that McNamara didn't get bailed out by Nico Collins mossing some guy. When he hits a guy it's in stride.

PFF had him fifth nationally in passer rating on throws of 20+ yards (which does not include the Andrel Anthony TD against MSU), and even though there's a bunch of YAC in there you can't say McNamara didn't earn it. He not only put it on guys running deep, he put it on them such that they could go run another 40 yards. The casual nature of this flea-flicker TD is a thing:

McNamara was able to put it on guys running flat out with a step or two on their defender and also ease into some of the most catchable deep balls this space has ever seen from a Michigan quarterback when the coverage was way off. This is also game managing.

As befits a game manager, McNamara's bad-thing-not-happen stuff was superior. He threw just two interceptions that were primarily his fault. There was the bad one against Ohio State, yes, and a similar play against Nebraska. Two "oof" picks in a season is amazing, and it looked like Nebraska jumped offsides on that play—McNamara may have thought he had a free shot. His other interceptions were either pinball deflections, absurdly uncalled pass interference, or miscommunication with his wide receiver.

He also contributed quite a bit to Michigan's national-best sack rate:

McNamara also short-circuited what I thought was Ohio State’s main gameplan for Michigan, which was to get pressure with exotic six-man pressures and cover his first read. McNamara remained cool, knew where his checkdowns were going to be, and hit them accurately.

 

One of the holes in our grading system is we don’t have a way to account for the quarterback in our protection metrics. Some QBs run themselves into trouble, some run out of clean pockets, and many stick to the script like they’re operating an insurance commercial not a college offense. On the above play Ohio State used the speed of their second level to create a surprise six-man pressure that overwhelmed the left side—even if Hayes comes off the LB and picks up one of those outside blitzers there’s one more guy than Michigan has a hat for. We got into a play earlier this year when McNamara took his first sack and I argued that he has to save himself on those.

Well, he saved himself. Those two blitzers never get home, because Cade comes off the three-man read on the left side he won’t have time for and gets the ball to a tight end with leverage. It sets up 3rd and short. The chains keep moving. Nobody remarks that Ohio State drew up a way to get two free blitzers versus an empty formation and didn’t get so much as a shot on the QB for it. I’ve beat the drum all year that McNamara is a brainy quarterback who does the reading before the snap to speed up his decisions after it. That makes him a very difficult guy to blitz—it’s one thing if you can cover his first read and he doesn’t know where to go from there; it’s not easy to fool him pre-snap but it can be done. It’s another thing entirely if he can flip from Read 1 to Read 4 because he knows if you’re blitzing from Y and Z you don’t have leverage in D.

Anyone who watched Shea Patterson's senior year knows that a QB can sack himself; McNamara never did that. His impulse to check down did have that upside. This was reflected in the numbers. He was PFF's highest-graded Big Ten passer—ahead of Stroud and O'Connell—against the blitz. When Seth crunched UFR data McNamara scored an impressive 68% on passing-down downfield success rate—and remember that we're not handing out CAs for five yard checkdowns on third and ten. He also had 22(!) plays on which we gave him a plus for dealing with pressure against just 14 plays on which we decided pressure prevented him from having a reasonable chance at doing anything. That ratio is nuts for a first year starter.

So you can call him a game manager but if you do you have to admit that he manages the dang game. Seth:

The fan brain way to show all of this is how you feel when Michigan goes five-wide on 3rd and medium. Pretty good right? Well it’s actually getting better. Earlier in the season he wasn’t making the backside read when he had a route combination to the frontside. Northwestern bet on that, putting extra dudes frontside. Cade checks there to make sure it’s the 5-on-3 they showed pre-snap, and comes back to the 2-on-2 snag on the backside.

People still throw around “Game Manager” like it’s a bad thing to play the thinking man’s wargame with a brain. But if you give him a cushion he’s going to spot it and take it.

He checked into that, and makes 30 more checks a game that have probably borne out in the very good running game but no fan can or will be able to see on tape.

McNamara is also capable of altering throws based on what's in front of him. He does not have the biggest arm in the world but he makes up for it with a deft touch and an awareness of when to use it. Yeah, you could hammer this in before the linebacker gets his hand on it if you're Joe Milton, or you could just use parabolas to your advantage:

Michigan had a lot of touch passes in the playbook last year and they went extremely well. McNamara is able to complete these even under duress and from different arm angles:

He was excellent at getting balls over the hands of linebackers in zone coverage.

All this adds up to 7.9 YPA, 15 TDs, 6 interceptions, and 64% completions for his first year as a starter, and more or less his second in the program. That's exactly what Michigan needed last year: a steady hand to check into the right bulldozings and, when Michigan didn't score, provide long fields that gave the defensive ends time to consume the souls of their opposition. To, you know, manage the game.This season Michigan needs something more than that. Thus all the rabbling.

McNamara can get there. His reads got better as the season went along. His accuracy is high-end. His main issue is not seeing a large number of bombs he's excellent at throwing. That is fixable in film room, especially since McNamara has displayed good information processing in many other aspects of his game.

Just don't ask him to keep it.

ON THE GROUND, things did not go as well. It says something about something that Michigan converted a third and twelve in the Big Ten championship game by motioning Donovan Edwards out, leaving McNamara with a four man box against man two under. McNamara scored a 47% on Seth's charting of his post-snap mesh point decisions. On the podcast Seth characterized this as "no better than flipping a coin," but it felt worse than that. McNamara either had a pathological determination not to keep the ball or a lot of the "reads" weren't reads at all. I mean:

Guys would turn their body almost 90 degrees away from square and charge at Haskins and McNamara would still give the ball. This caused Seth to descend into MGoBlog Who Are We Reading Spittle Paragraphs™ with some frequency. (It was very Dread Pirate Roberts of him.) The most gloriously spittle-flecked was after Wisconsin, and related to the embed above:

I think Arc Read is still in the playbook, but they still can’t get McNamara to keep no matter how good the look. … Pre-snap notice that Erick All is pointing at the OLB lining up inside of him.

image

He’s also looking at McNamara. Something is being communicated, and the most sensical thing that could be is “RIGHT HERE CADE. THIS GUY IS COMING INSIDE OF ME. READ THAT!” He doesn’t read that.

imageimage

And when All gets up after that he’s like “What the HELL man?”

image

image

…In this way the starting quarterback has once again become a major drag on the run game. Defenses can run willy-nilly at the edges Michigan wants to attack, and either deliver an unblocked extra man to the RB at the line of scrimmage or better yet an unblocked, unread edge defender directly into the backfield.

Wisconsin is the best example here because they have to be taken seriously in ways that MAC teams and Rutgers—ye gods, remember that game—do not. But the vibes from the Rutgers game are a pretty good summary:

Fake zone reads are not THE problem but they're the most obvious and frustrating part of the Jim Harbaugh Rutgers Game Plan experience. I don’t know if they’re expecting the QB to read it pre-snap, if McNamara is just screwing them up consistently, if the slider is just set to an extreme and defenses have learned how to maximize that, or if they figured 20 points against Rutgers was plenty so why do anything more dangerous than fart for a half and leave your opponents with a bunch of nonsense to scout.

Seth briefly issued a cyan to McCarthy, causing the message boards to explode into a civil war, largely because of this. I disagreed at the time, but I do understand. I too have been in the UFR salt mines getting wild-eyed about this exact thing. It changes you, this UFR.

Michigan dumped McNamara run reads from the offense by the time of the Ohio State game—Seth charted zero zone reads—and that went… just fine! Pretty great, actually! The problem with projecting that down the road is that the Ohio State defense was a mid-season patch job and Michigan was vastly ahead of the curve schematically in a way that is not likely to recur. If McNamara's going to stay ahead of his competition he's going to have to be a Brady-like savant at reading defenses and getting the ball out. This isn't getting better to the point where McNamara features in opposition planning like McCarthy is.

HENSON ANALOGUE

51724486362_30ec22520b_c

meep meep [Patrick Barron]

And then there's the other guy. Here's JJ MCCARTHY [recruiting profile] doing the throwing thing pretty well:

Yes, that is a 20-yard out to the field. No, he didn't really step into the throw.

Here's McCarthy catching Blake Corum(!!!) in the Big Ten championship game:

This + that == holy shit. McCarthy threw for 8.7 yards an attempt with 5 TDs and 2 INTs and ran for 5.5 yards a carry as a true freshman, with a fair number of those snaps coming in competitive portions of games. It is completely understandable that the Michigan fanbase is looking at the five star-laden rosters of Ohio State and hypothetical playoff opponents and pounding the table for McCarthy as the great equalizer.

It is also completely understandable that the Michigan coaching staff hasn't shown the same level of reckless enthusiasm. They like McCarthy just fine; unlike big portions of the fanbase they're not yet ready to anoint him as the chosen one. Because while the freshman stuff was relatively muted, it wasn't exactly absent:

Yeah, it worked. Other events were less dramatically freshman and had less sanguine outcomes. (For the record, Infamous Fumble Against MSU is charged to Blake Corum, per Harbaugh himself.) This is our concern, dude.

This shows up in Seth's charting… sort of. Data is so thin here on a game-to-game basis that we'll just compress it all into a one-line chart:

JJ MCCARTHY

  Good   Neutral   Bad   Ovr   Reads
Game DO CA SCR   PR MA   BA TA IN BR   DSR GRADE!   RPOs ZRs
2021 9++++ 18+(7) 3   1 7   1x 5x 11 6x   58% +10   10/12 28/33

As always, hover over abbreviations for explanations.

This covers 53 of McCarthy's 59 throws last year, so about two games worth for a Harbaugh quarterback. This is a wild ride with a ton of NFL-level DOs and a hair or two too many events in the "bad" category. But does this look like a capital-F freshman? No. Extra-bad X events are relatively rare; bad reads are generally non-catastrophic; his mesh point decisions are fan-dang-tastic (even if you have some skepticism about our ability to deduce these things).

Two things are true. One is that McCarthy's per-snap +/- grading is considerably adrift of McNamara's final six games. Two is that this chart looks like a rocket two seconds after ignition. It's not going very fast right now, but there's a hell of a lot of fire coming out of the back of it.

Let's drill down.

HENSON ANALOGUE DOES THE THROWING. Sometimes… there's a man. And you just know he's a different kind of dude. JJ McCarthy is that man. His version of the Denard fumble TD was a ridiculous cross-body throw to Daylen Baldwin that came right at me in the stands. At first I thought this thing was going to be intercepted; so did Daylen Baldwin. Then the arc of the ball became clear—much more quickly for Baldwin than myself—and all that was left was Pikachu face. The broadcast angle does not do it justice:

Later in the season Seth caught a pop off of Cornelius Johnson's pads that said something. Volume up for this one:

The five-star arm literally pops.

…you heard that catch on the broadcast, as the ball arrives so quickly on a hitch Johnson has to figure out what to do with the time he wasn’t planning to have before the DB arrives. He was going to shield the ball, so he just falls backwards for a few extra. In future circumstances these are going to turn into big YAC opportunities.

When provided an opportunity to hit a hitch against off coverage McCarthy frequently got the ball out fast enough to allow his wide receiver to turn and go upfield. And if his deep ball is less proven than McNamara that's only because of reps. Early indications are McCarthy is right there with him:

McCarthy also displayed some of the subtler arts during his opportunities. Andrel Anthony's Braylon cosplay will re-appear in this preview series; for purposes of this post it's illuminating because this is a corner route on which the DB hops outside; McCarthy's throw is the right one despite the unexpected situation:

When he's flushed from the pocket he keeps his eyes downfield and doesn't mindlessly go into run mode despite his athleticism. And while McCarthy is capable of breaking the pocket when necessary, he did not use it as a crutch—much, anyway. He was perfectly willing to sit in the pocket if he got enough time to get a pass off:

On top of all that, McCarthy's athleticism allows him to make something out of nothing even when he gets an unblocked, good Iowa linebacker coming at him:

Hard to see that being anything other than a throwaway if McNamara gets that rush.

Early issues reading things—like that time against Western where he had eyes only for AJ Henning on a dig/post that sucked up the exact safety he should be reading and left Roman Wilson wide open for six—didn't linger. By the time he got flung in the deep end in the Georgia game he was zipping darts in front of certified dudes*:

McCarthy wasn't ready to take Michigan down the field repeatedly against Georgia but it didn't take a lot of squinting to see how he could get there.

And then there's the other half of being a quarterback these days.

*[Perhaps backup certified dudes but just look up UGA recruiting; the backups are about to be one of CFB's best defenses again.]

HENSON ANALOGUE DOES THE RUNNING. McCarthy's ability on the ground was frankly shocking. His recruiting profile has a couple mentions of his ability to break the pocket and ESPN did rank him as a dual threat, but Mike Farrell and Allen Trieu are quoted as saying he "can run when needed" and he's "not a big big running threat," respectively.  I don't think anyone was expecting multiple clips where he WOOPed Big Ten linebackers.

He even fumbled a snap and scored, just like Denard! From five yards out instead of sixty zillion, sure. But just like Denard. Shh. Shh. Just like Denard.

Seth even liked McCarthy's decision-making, which is a brutally high bar to clear. The nature of UFR is to Zapruder every play and then be like DUDE YOU MISSED THIS CREASE, which is not entirely fair. We know this and have tried to keep that in mind, but for the purposes of this section it's illuminating that the freshman QB fielded this comment from Seth after the Maryland game:

…Denard was never very good at making option reads [ed: SLANDERLIBEL], and McCarthy has those and the RPOs pretty much down. My Jim Harbaugh 2.0 comp from the preseason is holding up, but we’re still talking Harbaugh circa 1982 or ’83 (QBs come more advanced these days). For now the coaches have to be wondering how they can use that without having a freshman moment cost them The Game.

They had a package for McCarthy in the freakin' Game with a bunch of reads and he just… did them right.

After McCarthy's ability to motor was on film you could see the impact on Michigan's ground game. There's the Iowa run above, yeah. Here Hassan Haskins doesn't have to cut this back because Maryland, but look at how much attention McCarthy draws. If Haskins needed to put his foot in the ground and get vertical that's there too.

The best backs for spread systems where it's really 11-on-11 tend to be home run hitters, because you break one tackle and everyone else is occupied. Michigan has home run hitters at running back. So if you've got the guy who you have to overreact to when he's the backup QB with a package, and he's actually making the reads, and he's actually a passer first and foremost… well. This is a potential stew.

HENSON ANALOGUE IS NOT PROJECTABLE? Here's the bit where you project what's going to happen, except I don't know. McCarthy could get stuck on the bench; he could rescue Michigan against Iowa and then just be the starting quarterback. Since this is the #1 Question hovering over the team this year, the outcome of the battle here is addressed more fully in 5Q5A.

FILE UNDER DON’T WANNA KNOW

51982240587_1e02f2f642_c (1)

Davis Warren has potential we absolutely do not want to explore [Marc-Gregor Campredon]

With McCarthy out and McNamara limited to a couple of drives, Michigan fans got an extended look at the depths of the, uh, depth chart during the spring game. This preview will not spend a whole lot of time going over it.

Jon [Gruden] asked Tom [Moore, the Colts offensive coordinator,] why he wasn’t giving some snaps to Peyton’s backups…He looked at us both in the eye, paused for a moment, then said in that gravelly voice of his, “Fellas, if ‘18’ goes down, we’re fucked.  And we don’t practice fucked.”

Texas Tech transfer ALAN BOWMAN and walk-on-with-a-story DAVIS WARREN went head-to-head for most of the afternoon. Most observers thought Warren was better, which came as a major surprise despite some positive spring practice chatter about Warren. Bowman has over 600 career attempts as Texas Tech’s starter and Warren barely played in high school, let alone college. Talk is talk is talk; Warren put a little something behind the talk.

Warren does have a pile of caveats to point at. His senior year was derailed by a leukemia diagnosis—chemotherapy left him 30 pounds lighter than his previous playing weight—and then a grad-year transfer to a school in Connecticut got blown up by COVID. If nothing else, Warren is a worthy successor to Drake Johnson’s throne as the Certainly Definitely Cursed member of the Michigan roster.

Realistically, if Michigan gets down here they'll just be scrambling to survive.

One last note: freshman ALEX ORJI [recruiting profile] looked somewhat interesting as a dual threat quarterback but miles away as a passer; with McCarthy's evident running ability it would be shocking if he did not redshirt unless they really need a power back. JAYDEN DENEGAL [recruiting profile] is a sure redshirt.

Comments

jwfsouthpaw

August 29th, 2022 at 4:22 PM ^

"I could see it being a good idea to do this.  I don't know if it is a particularly good idea to announce it and kind of make a big deal out of it."

I think Harbaugh had to announce it in advance. This way, the expectation has been set. If Cade has a great game against Colorado State but JJ starts against Hawaii, everyone knows it was the plan all along; "Michigan suddenly benches B1G champion starting QB after throwing 4 TDs" media headlines averted.  And vice versa: If Cade doesn't have a great game, he isn't getting "benched" for week 2 (more headlines!). Etc. etc. 

This sends the desired message and also shields the players from answering a million questions -- at least for 2 weeks. 

DennisFranklinDaMan

August 29th, 2022 at 3:29 PM ^

Yeah, I got to say, I was enthusiastic about this from the get-go. I always worry about yanking quarterbacks after a drive or two. What if they handed the ball off twice and only got to throw once, on third-and-long? What if a receiver deflects a well-thrown ball into the arms of a defender? It's just crazy to judge a quarterback on one or two drives at a time. 

Obviously, if one of them really struggles, the other can come in in the second half or something, but this is a good way of taking advantage of the really weak non-conference schedule, and I think it makes total sense. We talk about Harbaugh "being Harbaugh," but in this case, I think it's just, simply, Harbaugh being smart.

stephenrjking

August 29th, 2022 at 4:11 PM ^

Let's be real: I expect our offense to be good. I will be disappointed if the game isn't well out of reach early in the second half. And, under normal circumstances, in a big blowout the backup is going to get serious reps in the second half, and I anticipate that this will occur in both of Michigan's first two games.

Of course, since it's also a tryout, maybe Harbaugh keeps both Cade and JJ in for longer... but that would be unusual in any other circumstance. 

Rendezvous

August 29th, 2022 at 4:37 PM ^

Harbaugh has stated that each will start a game, but has he said that each will play that entire game? Perhaps each starting QB will get the first half and then the first drive or two of the second half, then the other comes in. Whoever ends of being the backup quarterback should be ready to come into any game at any time, and perhaps this is another way for Harbaugh to evaluate them by not only judging their performance as the starter, but also on how well they handle coming in off the bench. I'm not sure what specifically he might learn from this, but then, I'm not Harbaugh.

Blau

August 29th, 2022 at 2:58 PM ^

IIRC, the pinball deflections for Cade were extremely annoying during the early half of last year's schedule. Did he actually clean those up or did opposing DLs just stop getting their arms up? Those bat downs had a lot of people clamoring for JJ. 

Either way, I think everyone is mostly scared of losing QB 1/1A to a transfer without feeling like you didn't pick the right one. I think a lot of folks are hoping that JJ takes over halfway through the season and lives up to the hype with an extra year of maturity while Cade accepts the clipboard-carrying student/player QB coach role waiting for chance to shine again. 

Dunder

August 29th, 2022 at 3:04 PM ^

Meta note: There is some very nice, full throated Brian in this article:   

"Two is that this chart looks like a rocket two seconds after ignition. It's not going very fast right now, but there's a hell of a lot of fire coming out of the back of it."

Feels like the same could be written of this season preview after its first installment. 

njvictor

August 29th, 2022 at 3:21 PM ^

Here's a question I'm not sure has really been explored: If Cade is the marginally better QB at this point, is the benefit of him starting worth potentially losing JJ and the upside and promise that he likely has? Or does it make more sense to start JJ and work through those minor kinks?

Also, not sure it's worth a board post but it's confirmed 2024 5* QB Jadyn Davis will be visiting for the Hawaii game. This will be his 3rd visit to Ann Arbor

The Oracle 2

August 29th, 2022 at 3:22 PM ^

In trying to figure out why some think McNamara should be the choice over the obviously much more talented McCarthy, I’m thinking some of it might be that it’s easier for most people to relate to McNamara because most of us aren’t hyper-talented and end up succeeding, like McNamara has, through determination and hard work (don’t get me wrong, McNamara obviously also has talent, just not the eye popping ability of someone like McCarthy). Most are also good, empathetic people, and it does seem unfair that someone could lose their job while still doing it pretty well. But this isn’t supposed to be fair.

bronxblue

August 29th, 2022 at 3:47 PM ^

See, I don't get why people assume McCarthy is "more talented" at being an actual college QB and that McNamara is some 2* scrub who's Rudy-ing his way through football.  I know that people like to throw around "talent" like "gourmet" or "luxury" as a shorthand for vibes, but it sometimes feels like a useless descriptor for actually evaluating the ability of a person to perform the job he/she is tasked with. This post analogizes Brady-Henson, and it's a somewhat tired comparison, but Brady wasn't as "talented" as Henson and he wasn't as "talented" as the dozen+ guys taken at QB before him that year by the NFL.  But at some point he then became "talented" enough to be the one of the top 1-2 QBs in NFL history, while Drew Henson went from being "more talented" at football AND baseball to washing out of both sports with little to show for it at either level.  So it's almost like saying something reductive as "he's more talented because I think he should play and all of you who don't agree are try-hards and get off my lawn" isn't a compelling argument.

As for McNamara's actual "talent", he was the #7 rated pro passer in his class and was a top-250 recruit, and had offers from all of the major players in college football.  McCarthy was rated higher and does some things better but also shows flaws McNamara hasn't; being able to read a defense pre-snap and making accurate throws into windows are actual skills and not the by-product of cross fingers and fairy dust.

Anyway, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion about who should start at QB but save me this moralizing take about how we're all stands for little engines that could because we think a guy who has been a good college QB and has potential to improve shouldn't just give up a spot to someone who clearly hasn't beaten him out yet for the job no matter how much a segment of the fanbase wishes he did.

The Sea Was Angry

August 29th, 2022 at 6:56 PM ^

You have pushed strongly for McCarthy and fervently against McNamara in seemingly 1000 posts over the last week. We get it.

This post prompted me to reply to you with the following data: Sample Size = 1

McCarthy may be the better option, but please stop using the Georgia game as your strongest evidence. Instead, take in what BronxBlue has written as it is full of wisdom and reason, items your posts are lacking.

P.S. I only neg you because you make it personal against players who give everything to proudly represent our school. Choose a higher, less condescending road, and you will find most readers, while they may still disagree with your opinions, don't find you so polarizing.

The Oracle 2

August 29th, 2022 at 11:59 PM ^

The Georgia game isn’t the strongest evidence; it’s just the most recent. The talent difference is significant and obvious, and has been from the minute McCarthy stepped on the field. It’s also been obvious that McCarthy would have to be the starter by this season or they would very likely lose him, given the current state of college football. The idea that he would patiently sit indefinitely and wait for his turn is a fan’s fantasy. McCarthy is the only 5 Star QB Harbaugh has been able to convince to come to Michigan and the coach will not give him a reason to leave. McNamara wasn’t great last year. He was capable. Harbaugh, like any coach, wants great.

The Sea Was Angry

August 30th, 2022 at 4:28 PM ^

I can't believe I'm responding, yet here we go. For the last time, did you read BronxBlue's post directly above? Are you old enough to have witnessed Tom Brady and Drew Henson? Do you have any idea what has transpired during training camp? The answers to these questions must assuredly be a hard no.

Congratulations. Purposefully or not, you come across as a professional troll who gets people to waste their time responding to endless drivel. McCarthy may ultimately be the starter this year, but please don't say, "I told you so" when it happens. Like a coin flip, you have a 50/50 shot. Good luck

Joby

August 29th, 2022 at 5:39 PM ^

Bronx, The Oracle 2 made a specific mention that Cade has lots of talent, just not the eye-popping kind.

 

The part that resonated with me in Oracle’s post was this: “I’m thinking some of it might be that it’s easier for most people to relate to McNamara because most of us aren’t hyper-talented and end up succeeding, like McNamara has, through determination and hard work…”

It’s a take that fits into how people tend to think of themselves: as hardworking regular Joes afforded no societal privilege who bootstrapped their way to success, and resistant to those who might be talented but “didn’t earn it.” Even if this narrative is often wildly untrue about us, it’s too emotive and powerful not to hit home, especially when reflected to us. Cade is a talented, hardworking QB, but he is also a societal mirror.

1974

August 29th, 2022 at 6:13 PM ^

Oracle 2 is bringing us some armchair psychology:

"I’m thinking some of it might be that it’s easier for most people to relate to McNamara because most of us aren’t hyper-talented and end up succeeding, like McNamara has, through determination and hard work (don’t get me wrong, McNamara obviously also has talent, just not the eye popping ability of someone like McCarthy). Most are also good, empathetic people, and it does seem unfair that someone could lose their job while still doing it pretty well. But this isn’t supposed to be fair."

Goodness! O 2, I've been kicking ass in multiple contexts for many years and I still find Cade relatable.

DennisFranklinDaMan

August 29th, 2022 at 3:26 PM ^

Both of Cade's big throws in the OSU game were good -- but neither were great. Both on the one to Johnson that Brian clipped to and the flea-flicker to Sainristil, if he actually led the receivers, would have been touchdowns -- but on both the receivers had to slow down to catch it. Just to be clear, they were both good throws, in highly stressful situations, and I'm not negging Cade for them. But neither were they masterpieces, and sometime he seems so nervous about overthrowing people that he forces them to slow down *just* a bit.

(Also, I know Brian and Seth revert to Harbaugh's statement that it was Corum who caused the fumble, but I don't see why that's dispositive. Harbaugh is doing his job at protecting a freshman quarterback from the heat he would face for a big turnover in a big game. Good on him. But it certainly looks as if McCarthy was at least partially responsible. Maybe not. I'm just saying, the fact that Harbaugh said it was Corum's fault doesn't make that the truth.)

JBLPSYCHED

August 29th, 2022 at 3:35 PM ^

I really like Cade, in my many years as a Michigan fan I think he reminds me most of Harbaugh himself back in the early to mid-80's as has been suggested by Brian or Seth or whoever. The two eras aren't really comparable, of course, the game has become so much faster now and Harbaugh was probably more elusive out of the pocket. But Cade may be underrated in that regard since he gets rid of the ball so quickly and almost never keeps it on zone read type running plays.

The thing about Cade as our starter is that we probably can't win a playoff game against a team that clearly has more talent and depth than we have, like Georgia last year. He doesn't take chances, which I actually like, but against much better teams we would need him to take chances. And we would need the coaches to include that possibility in the game plan, whatever that might mean.

J.J. is no longer a freshman so doesn't that mean we can have more confidence that he'll remain cool under fire and be less reckless? I don't mean that he can't or won't make any big mistakes but the upside is what catches the eye and we need that upside to beat more talented teams. As Brian and others have said, we beat OSU last year when they're defense was much worse than usual and we can't expect that to continue.

I say let both 'starters' show their full set of skills in the first 3-4 games, no holds barred. I don't see a downside. If Cade has expanded his repertoire and shows it during live game action then he might work against better teams than ours. But if J.J. is the more talented QB with the bigger toolbox--especially with a year of maturity and experience--I say let him show it and then let's go with it.

We have so much talent on the roster, particularly on offense, that it would be a shame not to Go For It this year in my opinion.

dragonchild

August 29th, 2022 at 3:39 PM ^

There's been talk about the "each QB gets a game" announcement, but I daresay no one's addressing the underlying problem.  Whatever anyone thinks about the politics of it, I'm not sure we'll learn anything about the QBs against our non-conference opponents.

S.G. Rice

August 29th, 2022 at 3:59 PM ^

I'm rather confident that evaluation won't be limited to the games themselves, the staff is going to see how each prepares and practices knowing that they are going to be the starter that week.  It's known for Cade (at least how he did it last year), but not for JJ.  Probably won't be 50/50 on practice reps like it was (reportedly) in camp, either.

I'd go so far as to speculate that other than a couple of small bits of information you can only get in game action (is Cade willing to take shots?  has JJ knocked off the rust and is he done making freshman mistakes?), most of what the staff is going to be interested in will actually come from practice.

stephenrjking

August 29th, 2022 at 4:21 PM ^

Maybe.

But the specific issues that have, to this point, held JJ back from earning the starting spot... we can learn about those. Because Michigan can out-talent these first opponents, but these first opponents will still line up in defensive formations that need to be read, and JJ will have an opportunity to apply the lessons he is learning in reading them and making the right play. He will have most of a game to play within the design of the offense, make mistakes, learn from them, and grow.

It absolutely gives him a chance to prove that he can do it. 

On the other hand, if he just runs around in circles and gets away with it because Michigan is playing minnows, that will tell us something, too. 

Reader71

August 29th, 2022 at 3:56 PM ^

McCarthy was kicking the ball around the turf while McNamara was in the middle of the best game of his career versus MSU. I was hoping we'd get away from that kind of thing this year, and we might, but if McNamara plays well and loses his job because of "ceiling," I will question Harbaugh for the first time in his tenure.

I hope we don't cost ourselves a game trying to make one individual happy, thereby costing everyone else on the team.

damgood

August 29th, 2022 at 4:48 PM ^

I’ve seen no evidence Harbaugh does this. The best players always play. I feel confident that nobody really separated themselves during camp and this is the reason for the weird starting mix. When Jim’s sure who is the better QB for the team he will pick one

ak47

August 29th, 2022 at 4:00 PM ^

Friday night lights already covered this plot. Ultimately the less talented guy with heart who has won with you before is the guy who gets you there in the end

(I'm actually team JJ because of what his running ability does for the offense)

Booted Blue in PA

August 29th, 2022 at 4:23 PM ^

harbaugh has been coach for what......8 years now.  he's quirky, but he means what he says and says it how it is..... 

all you speculators can continue to speculate, but in the end, its mere speculation.

Chicago'00

August 29th, 2022 at 4:29 PM ^

I really, really hope McNamara deserves - and keeps - the starting job, and here's why:

Michigan's offense has the potential to be one of the best in the nation.

Michigan's defense lost its wunderkind DC, a once-in-a-generation defensive end, and second once-in-a-generation defensive end, an all-star safety/corner who this site repeatedly asked "did they try to edge", a senior middle linebacker, a senior safety and several other contributors.  They have good depth, so we're all hoping it will be alright.  But let's be honest - this defense is going to take a step back...we're just hoping it's a small step and not a leap.

The "game manager who won't lose you games, but potentially got better" seems like the obvious choice here.

The "dynamic with gigantic upside, but a downside that could put too much pressure on our as-yet-untested defense" seems like a great starter next year.

MMBbones

August 29th, 2022 at 5:09 PM ^

I have created an advanced spreadsheet using my 1982 version of MultiPlan. My daughter says I should update to Excel, but what do kids know?  I am keeping track of new MGoWords, as of two weeks ago. So far I have:

1. Screwn

2. Twerd

3. Slanderlibel

These are arranged chronologically in order of appearance.

TrueBlue2003

August 29th, 2022 at 6:03 PM ^

What was impressive about McNamara is that he stepped it up in the biggest games: Wisconsin, MSU and OSU.  And we had to be able to pass against UW and MSU because the run game was pretty well bottled up.

Also, I'm not sure about this:

This season Michigan needs something more than that.

I mean, yes, Michigan will need something more than that in the last game of the season.  But they need more than any player is even capable of delivering.

And one could make the argument that by far the most important thing to getting to that game is not making mistakes against inferior competition.

The only way we're losing to Iowa, MSU or PSU is with multiple backbreaking mistakes.  So I think I'm good with Cade in those games.

That said, if JJ isn't making backbreaking mistakes, then yeah, it's time.

Blake Forum

August 29th, 2022 at 6:16 PM ^

This is really good and helpful analysis and I'd like to thank you guys for it. One minor quibble tho: At a certain point, when the QB who is undoubtedly good at pre-snap reads seems to be making "bad reads" in a certain area (what we believe are zone reads where he should keep), we may have to simply consider that the play does not, in fact, give him that option and he's just doing what he's been told. Especially since he seems like the kind of kid who would quickly change what he was doing if the coaches told him he was doing a relatively simple thing the wrong way

BursleysFinest

August 29th, 2022 at 7:17 PM ^

This analysis changes up the Cade Vs JJ argument for me in that I had mis-judged Cade's ceiling.  It seems like you get Cade to be a little more daring with his throws, and you still get the "protect the ball, move the chains" but he can also make insane throws. 

JJ still has a higher ceiling, but I think all of the season goals are still on the table with Cade.

BuddhaBlue

August 29th, 2022 at 9:09 PM ^

Comments are a little cantankerous, considering how GOOD of a problem this is. The fact is, if Cade plays the whole year we have a great shot at another B1G title, as evidenced last year. We have no chance to win a playoff game (also as evidenced last year). Switch the scenario around and JJ plays the whole year - all bets are off.

I trust the approach taken by the coaches, which is NEITHER plays the whole year and they both get opportunities and they both get to walk the "no I in team" talk. I'm sure the way they did it last year really emphasized the team x3 aspect of our season. One thing last year showed is that culture wins championships.