OT: Advice on All-Boys Schools

OP - I'd imagine a big part of the decision is the quality of the alternative.  Is the public school your son would go to strong enough to give him chance to succeed / thrive?  Does it offer AP classes?  If so, I personally lean toward public schools.  The two reasons you mentioned are some of them.  Public schools also give students a chance to interact with people from different walks of life. 

Alternatively, if the public school he would attend is only marginal, the private school could be an outstanding opportunity.  

Your 8 year old is being offered a scholarship?

I went to an all-boys Catholic high school for two+ years and transferred to my public school just in time to redeem my high school experience. Otherwise those years would have been lost; my cousins and all my buddies who went there all regretted it and think of their HS years as miserable. 

Can't say that will be the same experience for everyone (or your son) and it may be specific to the school I attended. But that was my experience (this was the 90s and Catholic school was still kind of in the dark ages, your son's school sounds like it won't be that). 

(Not to scare you but it certainly set back my ability to converse with members of the opposite sex hah).

I would be worried about the class issue rather than the non coed nature of the school. I went to college out east with a lot of kids who attended private schools with Kennedys and Rockefellers and there is a lot of class structures within and between schools. 
 

that said, what they say about the lifelong connections you make are real. I know someone who works at SoftBank because of his high school roommate 

There are a bunch of studies that show that women do better in all-girl settings. One Michigan linguistics professor of mine did a study of mixed classrooms and found that boys did something like 85% of the talking--in all-girl settings girls get that chance. And various studies show that women build confidence--and later success--in all-woman academic settings. My daughter is going to an all-women's college, and I think that it helpful for her, a shy person. 

For boys? I went to an all-boys boarding school, and was the scholarship kid at the school. This was some time ago, and maybe things have changed. But I would not send a son to experience what I did. I don't think the teaching was more inspired than it was at the public high school I attended after leaving. And a lot of male. . . behavior was being played out at the boarding school, of dominance and cruelty--in a predictable, pedestrian way. I also made two enduring friendships; it was in no way uniformly bad. I have turned out to be a somewhat anti-elitist person, but I can't say I suffered coming from less money; I just value being around women and believe that they tend to be a humanizing influence on men.

This doesn't mean there aren't inspired all-boys schools; I just wouldn't put my own child in a traditional one. (In fact, my old boarding school went co-ed.) This is likely to come down to the school itself and (maybe) your own world view. I wish you and your son well!

Having been pulled from the NYC public school system and placed into an all-boys prep school (many years ago), I can tell you that it was a 100% positive experience for me.

1. The education was ***superb*** plus I was taught how to learn. That may seem odd but it is true. I have benefitted from this for decades. Remember, school creates and builds a foundation for life and learning. The kid deserves every chance to get the best education possible.

2. Rather than just push me along to get me out of the system, I was given the attention that I needed as were my classmates. Some of thse classmates may have entered as jerks, but the environment eliminated that behavior quite effectively as time went by.

3. It was actually a big benefit to not have females in school with us. That lovely distraction was reserved for after-school hours at home and for weekends, holidays, vacations. I had zero problems interacting with the neighborhood girls. We were in school to learn the subjects and to learn how to form teams to cooperate and win.

4. He may initially feel at a SES disadvantage - but that will be something he will have to get used to and get over. In my school, it was never an issue as we just formed friendships that saw us through the 7 years of prep school. My sponsor was a connected but infamous guy (I had no idea about that until my late 20s, actually), my father was a wealthy public figure, and my best school friends were the sons of pharmacists, transit cops, public defenders, etc. It just didn't matter who Dad (or Mom) was during our time at school.

DO IT !

Honest question. What do you mean by "blue collar sensibilities"? 

Never went to an all-boys school, though an all-boys school was one of my school's biggest academic/social rivals. I did have a number of friends who went there. Their school was much, much more conservative, but the academics were quite good. However, in general, the boys who went there were definitely far less socially mature than my peers who went to co-ed private and public high schools. 

I don't have much experience with all-boys or all-girls schools, but I do have some experience with private schools...having sent my two kids to two different private schools here in Metro Detroit.

There will probably be a bit of an issue with the economic differences.  

Kids with more money tend to participate in activities and do things that those who aren't wealthy can't afford to do.  It becomes a little self-selecting.

Unlike when I grew up in the '80's, the kids are very aware of the economic differences...as the information is easy to find with a simple visit to The Google or Zillow.  For example, one of my daughter's classmate's father earned $50 million a few years ago.  Since he works for a publicly traded company, it was featured in pretty much every major news outlet.  This wouldn't have been an issue 30 or 40 years ago.

I went to public school through 3rd grade, then switched over to a catholic school from 4th-12th grades. 4th grade through 8th grade was co-ed and then I went to an All Boys Jesuit High School (Xavier High School … Go Knights!)

Interaction with girls/women
I do not believe it has had a negative impact on me as it pertains to interaction with women. It did, however, limit my network of girls I knew that were my age. That said, I did get to meet girls through joint activities like school dances, track & field, school plays, as well as through my friends from grade school, my neighborhood etc. BTW, my sister who was one grade ahead went to an all girls school.

If I could go back in time, I would go to the same school and do it all again- in fact, I wish I could! I recently reconnected with my classmates (class of 2002) and they all said the same. At the time, we all wished it was co-ed, but by the time we graduated we understood the experience.

Being middle class around super wealthy people
To attempt an answer to your question about being middle class around wealthy people: In high school, I was probably below middle class, and most kids in my school were middle class+, and I didn't really notice (perhaps because we all had the same dress code and all of that.) But, more importantly, if your son doesn’t experience it in high school, he will certainly experience it in college, grad school or future employment. Another way to look at it is that he will have built a relationship with people who are wealthy. Proximity to people outside your "class" I think can be a great thing- in either direction. It could lead to opportunities, internships, and jobs down the line.

Good luck to you and your son & keep us posted on how it all ends up! I have a feeling he'll do great either way.

Spent grades 7-12 at Jesuit all boys school (U-D).

Highly recommend the experience. Better academics, fewer female distractions, more camaraderie and school spirit.

Single sex high school is the way to go.

EDIT: full disclosure, on the specific questions posed by OP, yes, I was probably closer to the poorest end of the socioeconomic spectrum for these grades, and yeah, I'd say my "game" took a couple years in college to catch up to that of my peers.

So yeah, on average, I went to fewer parties in high school and had less sex in college. But still, on balance, if I were a father of a son on the cusp of such a decision, it'd be a no-brainer.

I went to private (small Christian) schools through 8th grade, then public schools for 9-11 and an all-boys boarding school (Fork Union: Chris Perry, Eddie George etc) for 12th grade. Some of my best friends came from Fork Union and my grades were top notch. Our valedictorian went to Harvard, it was an excellent experience.  The quote a classmate of mine always said (who unfortunately passed away on Wednesday) was that it's a great place to be from, and a horrible place to be at. Of my group of friends that went there for 4 or more years, none of them had an issue when it came to dealing with women or being social.  And in a military school, there were no real class issues.  We knew the kids who had money, but ultimately, it didn't matter. We had little to no bullying, even by today's standards, and as much as I hated that I spent my senior year there, I appreciated it. 

I grew up in VA, in the DC metro area btw

i would imagine that it depends greatly on the anticipated public and private school attributes. 

that said, have you considered homeschooling?  

it is an excellent manner to raise up your uber-bright child/children to keep them intellectually challenged.  it is exceptionally efficient in time and can bring families wonderfully close together - you/your wife won't regret the time spent with jr. and the freedom of schedule is awesome, too.  

we co-op with a local public school so our kids can do sports and it has worked great.  i won't humble brag about grades/SAT scores but imagine that i did. 

some famous homeschoolers, in case you're interested:

I didn't attend a single-gender school but I had numerous friends do so (mostly religious ones like Brother Rice, CC, UD, Marian, Mercy, etc.) and also had family who taught at single-gender schools so I have some experience.  The wealth component tends to be a bigger issue than anything else - these schools do tend to attract really affluent families and while many of them will be perfectly nice parents and their kids will be welcoming, there will be a (vocal) minority that flaunt their access and wealth and create, for lack of a better word, entitled asshole spawn.  Know that going in and your son should be fine, but it'll be a thing.  I will say, and this is anecdotal more than anything else, but kids today do tend to have a more pronounced and open worldview than my generation, so it's easier to just ignore these kids because cliques at schools are more numerous.

As for exposure to women, that's less of a concern.  He'll run into women as teachers, school events, and everyday life.  I do think that having people of different genders and sexual identities around is helpful - my friends who went to single-gender schools did fine dating but I do know some of them who were LGBTQ+ felt absolutely ostracized and unwelcome, though most of those schools were religious so it's hard to separate that component out.  The testosterone might be turned up a bit (especially if he plays sports) but high-school boys are already at an 11 when it comes to being little aggro balls of energy so probably not a huge difference.

Academically it sounds like a great school and if you are really worried about him disliking school because he's bored that should help.  Though as others have noted these schools can be intense and dogmatic in their teaching style, so that doesn't always mesh with a child's learning style and could create issues.  But if your son has visited and likes the school then why not try it - worst case scenario he leaves and goes somewhere else.

Good luck.

I would guess that your son going into 3rd(?) grade at an all boys school is a lot different than if he were going into 9th grade from a development perspective. I'm not sure I noticed girls until eight grade so he may not miss that part or be behind wherever he decides to go to high school.

From second class citizen perspective, my naive self would say kids that age are friends with who they like and aren't going to exclude him from things. Sure, some kids may brag about how much money they have, but my experience is the financial difference is more of a curiosity than a way of separating a fellow student into a lower rung socially. The jerk that will say he's a poor scholarship kid would probably have made fun of his hair or height if your son was a full-pay kid.

I think there is a lot of stereotyping about private/boarding schools. I went to public schools (other than Catholic elementary schools) all my life but my son wanted to go away to school (I think he thought it would be like Hogwarts). We are definitely middle income and based on the comments on this board, I make a lot less than most Michigan grads. What my son found at boarding school were the most amazing friends and wonderful experiences that far exceeded his expectations. The kids are far more diverse economically than Hollywood would have you believe and regardless of income, most were really high quality character kids.

I'm sure the school has tours. Visit while school is in session (if possible) and see how the kids interact with each other. It will tell you a lot that isn't in the brochure or on the website.

Back in my day there was the Benning School for Boys, but it's coed now.

I went to public school through 7th grade and then went to an all-boys Jesuit school from 8th grade on.  I was definitely at the lower end of the economic spectrum (there was a clear east/west divide in my town, and I was from the poorer side; there were very few people who attended from my side of town). 

It was the single best educational decision I have made.  The teachers challenged me, the extracurricular activities were great, and the simple fact that everyone had the same expectation of achievement made a real difference.

I never had an issue with girls or women.  I remained friends with a lot of my neighborhood friends from public school, and there were a number of activities with our sister school.  I'm sure it was different from the experience I would have had in public school, but I never felt stunted.

With respect to your second question, I was never made to feel like a second-class citizen.  It may have had something to do with the size of the school (~125 kids in each grade), but everyone seemed to get along and be inclusive.  I ended up with strong friendships across the socioeconomic spectrum.  My sense is everyone was judging everyone else on merit (athletic, academic or otherwise) much more than they were on wealth/privilege.

FWIW, I now have 2 kids who have yet to reach middle school.  We have tried both public and private and nothing seems perfect.  Everything I read suggests that outcomes don't deviate substantially so long as a student's parents are actively engaged and the school they go to has a baseline level of quality and, not surprisingly, safety.  I have told my kids that if they are interested in any school, we will help them explore it and apply if they want to go.

PS - I give more $$ to my high school than either university I attended.  

To comment on the awkward around girls thing, I think that has to do with you as a parent. Are you an outgoing person? Do you and your wife have a lot of friends? Kids who ha w outgoing parents with a lot of friends tend to be similar as they are put in a lot of social situations growing up. I think lesser outgoing parents who don't socialize much pass that onto their kids, just my opinion. Usually the guy who was a virgin until he was 30 doesn't produce a kid that's pulling in a lot of ass in high school and college or life in general...

Like others, I went to an all-boys high school. Academics were excellent - the transition to U of M was a piece of cake.

We had plenty of interaction with girls, and the school made sure there were opportunities for it. I don't know that an elementary school would make that same effort. Depending on what your son's interests are, chances are that he will interact with girls in his extracurriculars or through your social network.

Socioeconomic dynamics would come into play regardless of whether your son goes to the private school or not. It might be exacerbated at the private school. Another poster pointed out that this is more likely to manifest in the activities the other boys do. I agree with that. It could create some discomfort for your son, but it is also a potential opportunity to teach him about our differences, fiscal responsibility, etc.

Good luck - it's a good problem to have.

My opinion:

1) Home school (if possible)

2) Private school (if possible)

3) Public school

I say this working 15 years public, 2 international. 

As for the engagement with women I wouldn't be worried about your sons ability to connect with women, go on dates, etc. I would be worried about building a proper respect for women but that is true more generally.

I a somewhat relevant experience.  I went to small private school K-8 in a mostly boys class.  In my final three years there was only one girl in the class (there were more girls in other classes but the grades didn't really mix that much so it wasn't really relevant).

Those last three years were absolute hell.  Social status was generally correlated with athletic ability.  Any signs of weakness, emotion or femininity were instantly targeted.  The homophobia was rampant.  I don't think the kids at the top of the social ladder had a great time but those of us on the bottom constantly bullied, or were so in fear of bullying that they were walking on eggshells the entire time.

I went to public high school and, while the athletes were certainly the cool kids and homophobia was a problem, the bullying was night and day.  It certainly occurred but at nowhere near the scale I had been used to and I was never targeted in all four years.  

Now when I entered the public school system I was very far ahead of most of my peers, especially in the liberal arts.  

Now I've seen some other folks say they had a great time in all boys schools so take my experience for what it's worth, just one data point.

As far as education goes, my understanding of the research is that school quality matters a lot less than parent engagement.  As long as you remain hands on your boy should be alright.  Good luck in your decision!

I went to an all-boys Catholic High School and had a good experience.   Both of my boys went to the same high school (k-8 they were in public schools) which is now located in Novi, and both thrived.   Your child's education is paramount and if he can get a superior education at a private school I personally think that should be priority #1 as a parent.  

I went to a private high school. It was not country club elite - it was more of a progressive college preparatory school and a lot of students there were kids of teachers and other academics who valued a solid liberal arts education. The biggest academic benefit was that I learned how to write a good college-level paper so I pretty much sailed in that department once I got to college. I credit private school with engaging me academically (I had previously gone to public school for middle school). It was cool to work hard and be smart and be into school and hang out with your teachers after class to discuss what you just learned. 10% of my graduating class went to Harvard (6 in a class of 60), and a few more went to Yale, Cornell, and Penn. But there were also kids who went to in-state schools (this was in Texas) so A & M, UT Dallas, TCU, and UT. Not everyone was a brainiac and that was ok, too. It was a good experience. My kids, who went to a large public high school, had the benefit of having a broadly diverse student body that wasn't at all sheltered so they're good at being around a wide variety of people. Nothing phases or scares them. But I do wish more focus had been put on writing skills. Maybe curricula have changed since I was in high school, and more focus is on STEM classes now. What does your son want to do? 

My 2 cents (probably more like 1 cent) is that so much of it depends on the individual kid and on the responsiveness of the school to his needs.  "Elite" doesn't automatically mean "better."  And being more academically demanding can sometimes backfire if the demands are not backed up with the requisite support.  I know kids who blossomed and thrived when they moved from our local (and excellent) public school to a private school. I know other kids whose worst tendencies were exacerbated by the exclusive environment of an elite school.

One question I'd ask of you -- how sure are you that your son's acting out is because he is not challenged enough academically?  That may indeed be true, but it's also the first conclusion many people jump to automatically.  In the case of my daughter, also super bright and acting out at age 7, it turned out to be ADHD -- ramping up the academic difficulty would've made things worse, not better.

I can't really comment on the same-sex element.  It again really depends on the kid, the dynamic in the school itself, and his exposure to healthy gender relationships outside of school (since he won't get that in school).  And for 8-year olds, it's really too early to tell how they will respond.