OT: Introducing the New Manager of Your Detroit Tigers:
As expected, it's AJ Hinch.
https://twitter.com/tigers/status/1322222022903107587?s=09
Good move ahead of the curve by an organization that now has a solid base of good young talent in their farm system.
October 30th, 2020 at 1:24 PM ^
educate me (us?). is this good or bad? i saw some talk that he was the 'stros manager for the cheating scandal, but then owned up to it. what's your take on the hire?
October 30th, 2020 at 1:42 PM ^
I've been in Houston for the last five years, and adopted the Astros since the Tigers stunk and Verlander got traded to Houston. Hinch was, and possibly still is, very well liked in Houston. He was the manager during the sign-stealing scandal. The MLB report/articles are clear that Hinch did not approve of the setup and, at times, actively interfered with those trying to execute the sign-stealing, but obviously he ultimately didn't do everything he could have. Personally, I think he's a heck of a manager and I'm glad he gets another shot, even more glad that the Tigers will get to benefit from it. He seemed genuinely disappointed in himself for not doing more to end the cheating, and he never tried to blame anyone else or throw them under the bus, even though the MLB decided not to punish any of the players.
October 31st, 2020 at 9:22 AM ^
When i moved to Houston in 2014, i also adopted the stros as my team. I went to a ton of games when they were losing 120 ish that season. I also remember thew SI cover and all the jokes about it. What a fun run the year before the title, and an even more fun run the next year. Glad to see Hinch with the tigers. That whole "cheating" scandal is so dumb anyways. People just looking for a reason to be outraged.
October 30th, 2020 at 2:20 PM ^
The Pros:
On paper, this is a perfect fit for the Tigers. He at one point played for the Tigers, has front office experience working with the Padres, and took over the Astros when their rebuild was at a very similar spot to us. He is a good in game manager who has managed in major pressure filled spots during his career. He is proficient at using modern analytics and player evaluation.
The Cons:
He was the manager during the cheating scandal. According to the MLB report, he wasn't the ringleader of the scandal and more of a bystander. That was the GM and his bench coach Alex Cora. Hinch even went out of his way to express his displeasure over it including smashing several monitors. But at the same time, he didn't put an end to it, and there are some questions on if that was because he lost control over the lockeroom.
From what I understand, Hinch's role is kinda like a college basketball coach who knows his boosters and assistants are doing some shady shit with recruits behind their back, but doesn't put an end to it.
October 30th, 2020 at 4:39 PM ^
I agree with your analogy and would take it a step further. At some jobs your bosses expect you to cheat. They already have the mechanisms in place and don't want them going to waste.
October 30th, 2020 at 1:25 PM ^
I hear he believes communication is key to success in the clubhouse, on the field and especially from the the outfield bleachers to the dugout to the batter's box.
October 30th, 2020 at 1:29 PM ^
His success will depend on how much talent he has to work with. There hasn't been much the past several years. It depends on how much Avila gives him and my confidence is very low on Avila, the GM.
Good luck to A J Hinch in 2021 and beyond.
October 30th, 2020 at 1:40 PM ^
“There hasn’t been much the past several seasons.” You do realize this was by design right? You know the Tigers were TRYING to be bad right?
Avila inherited a team with a massive payroll, an aging core, and the worst farm system in baseball. Which means your team is going absolutely nowhere.
Fast forward a few years and we’ve now shed those contracts (except Miggy) and have a top 5 farm system in baseball (some sources consider it #1). We have some young pieces ready to contribute at the MLB level, some kids ready to break through, and some kids a year or two away. We also have a talented stable of prospects to use for trades and bringing in top end talent, and the payroll room to sign some big name free agents.
Avila isn’t free from criticism. He’s made some mistakes. But to BLAME him for the lack of talent on a team when we’re trying to lose is just crazy. He did exactly what he should have done, and has done a fine job positioning the Tigers for future success.
Whether he can guide the Tigers into the next stage of the rebuild and into a contender remains to be seen. But you have to understand what the Tigers have gone through the past couple seasons has been NECESSARY, and not criticize Avila for doing what had to be done.
October 30th, 2020 at 2:07 PM ^
I have no idea why anyone would really have any opinion of Avila, high or low. He sold off pieces too late because the Ilitch's wanted to win, and is now building. It's pretty impossible to fairly asses him
October 30th, 2020 at 2:30 PM ^
Not to mention, the Tigers completely overhauled their analytics team and system the moment Avila took over (overhauled probably isn't the best term considering their analytics team was like, one guy during the Dombroski era).
It takes awhile to incorporate analytics into baseball operations, and I don't think its a coincidence that Avila's worst moves came early on in his GM term.
October 30th, 2020 at 2:57 PM ^
Did someone say asses?
October 30th, 2020 at 4:09 PM ^
I think that losing 119 games in 2019 was more than trying to be bad. No excuse for that. 119 losses is not necessary in my book.
October 30th, 2020 at 3:37 PM ^
Hinch took the job because Riley Greene is the next Mike Trout.
"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?”
October 30th, 2020 at 6:25 PM ^
Fred Jackson approves of this comparison of Riley Greene but wonders maybe Willie Mays instead of Mike Trout.
October 30th, 2020 at 7:22 PM ^
He's Babe Ruth except faster
October 30th, 2020 at 1:29 PM ^
I am going to bang on a trash can to celebrate.
October 30th, 2020 at 2:14 PM ^
I'm salivating.
October 30th, 2020 at 1:29 PM ^
As a huge Tiger's fan, I'm really unhappy about this. You've got a young team that you're trying to build, and what do they do, but hire the leader of one of the worst cheating scandals in baseball in 100 years. Not a good message at all in my opinion. He may do well there, but I hate this hire!
October 30th, 2020 at 1:50 PM ^
Agree - Wish we could've got someone like... Tony LaRussa /s
October 30th, 2020 at 1:55 PM ^
LOL. Yeah, I'll also pass on hiring a manager that may have managed Ty Cobb
October 30th, 2020 at 2:51 PM ^
By hiring La Russa, White Sox will have to retro fit ramp from locker room to dugout to meet ADA standards.
October 30th, 2020 at 10:02 PM ^
By hiring LaRussa the White Sox guaranteed that they are going to have a steroid scandal in 2 or 3 years.
October 30th, 2020 at 2:52 PM ^
The announcement only included LaRussa's signature, not him.
October 30th, 2020 at 2:32 PM ^
I get what you are saying and I partially agree, although to clarify, he wasn't the leader of the scandal. According to MLB's own investigation, the leaders were the GM and Alex Cora. Hinch was more of a bystander, which don't get me wrong, isn't great, but this wasn't the mastermind behind the cheating.
October 30th, 2020 at 1:33 PM ^
I know I'm probably in the minority here (and everywhere outside Houston) but I never thought the sign stealing thing was that big of a scandal. Every team in baseball tries to steal signs, they just did it in a more high tech way. They got caught, got punished, etc. Hardly anyone complains about the steroid enhanced Yankees and that's a way bigger scandal imo. I'm willing to give Hinch a second chance and hope he turns the Tigers around.
October 30th, 2020 at 1:39 PM ^
there's a reason the communication of the stolen sign is against the rules. It totally undermines the integrity of the game. If a player figures out a sign on his own and uses it to his advantage, so be it, but to communicate it to another player during live competition ruins the game.
October 30th, 2020 at 1:54 PM ^
Teams have been stealing signs and communicating them forever though. They just didn't do it with technology. Shooting up steroids and HGH is a much bigger advantage and people barely even care. Like I said, that's just my opinion. Hinch is a hell of a manager and I'm excited about the hire.
October 30th, 2020 at 2:00 PM ^
For sure on the HGH and steroids. It's sad. Hinch will probably do well in Detroit, and if I'm being honest, I'm pretty sure Pudge and Mags were both using PED's pretty heavily while with Detroit. I just prefer to have good dudes at the helm like Sparky, Leland and Gardy
October 30th, 2020 at 3:37 PM ^
Why do you think signs change when teams have a runner on 2nd base? That guy is trying to pick up the pitch and convey that information to his teammate at the plate.
October 30th, 2020 at 1:36 PM ^
Like I posted last night in the thread that identified Hinch as the leading contender for the job, yes, he has that "baggage" of being associated with the Astros and their tainted title .
From all I've read of the situation, Hinch immediately came clean on it, admitted he should have immediately put a stop to the sign stealing scheme once he learned of it, and was fully cooperative with the investigation. He never played the blame game, never ducked taking full responsibility, never pointed fingers, and has served his punishment with dignity.
October 30th, 2020 at 1:40 PM ^
While I agree that all of those are steps in the right direction, I just think it sends a really bad message to young players, of which the Tigers have many!
October 30th, 2020 at 2:06 PM ^
I think the young players will be just fine. They’re not a bunch of damn sheep.
October 30th, 2020 at 2:11 PM ^
Seems to me like he is the perfect person for young players. People are imperfect and either make mistakes or do stupid shit all the time. Young people seem to do stupid shit at a higher rate. He stood up and took FULL responsibility for his inactions. So what message does it send, because he lost a few million and a year of coaching for his players actions.
October 30th, 2020 at 2:47 PM ^
Didn't MLB allow the Astros to retain the Series title? That sends a much worse message to the young players you are so concerned about. Not saying he is not without fault or blame but c'mon.
October 30th, 2020 at 3:07 PM ^
Agreed, and also sent a horrible message when a guy like Ryan Braun or A-rod can get caught using PED's multiple times, yet continue to sign multi year bazillion dollar contracts. Doesn't mean I can't hate it!
October 30th, 2020 at 1:39 PM ^
Next up, I guess. I'm always hopeful, but rarely confident.
October 30th, 2020 at 1:42 PM ^
This is a good hire
October 30th, 2020 at 1:43 PM ^
Excellent move! I cannot believe Reinsdorf passed on him for a fellow fossil/ahole in LaRussa, but their loss is our gain.
October 30th, 2020 at 1:43 PM ^
Man, I hope this works, looks good on paper, we will see how well it translates with the Tigers the next few years
October 30th, 2020 at 2:03 PM ^
so does the cheating start this year or next? Too soon?
October 30th, 2020 at 2:43 PM ^
The Astros showed you don’t cheat until it matters. Get good first, then cheat to get over the top.
October 30th, 2020 at 2:49 PM ^
This will certainly be the lame, tired, lazy, punchline joke that will be attached with him as he was there and didn't do enough to put a stop to it.
I too am in the minority here. EVERY baseball team steals signs. Hell watch a runner on 2nd base, he is very much trying to steal the sign from the catcher and look at the pitcher is holding the ball and let his teammate in the box know what pitch is coming.
There is a level of double standard going on there, I can ensure you every team (including the whiney Dodgers and Yankees) are trying to figure out what the signs are from the catcher and 3rd base coach. The Astros just took it to another level that displeased the powers to be. I know this will be waffling, but yeah sitting in centerfield and using cell phones to relay the pitches take it to another level..............
But, the Tigers just need to play above this rabble and keep improving. As stated repeatedly already, the GM was the ring leader of this and I dont believe that Avila will go down that path...
October 30th, 2020 at 2:41 PM ^
I am going to bang on a trash can to celebrate.
October 30th, 2020 at 2:42 PM ^
:::bangs trash can four times = TAKE:::
Yep, I'll take him. Last time we had a coach that had won pennants and/or series, it worked out pretty well. Good young core and decent meat on the farm, he should do alright.
October 30th, 2020 at 2:56 PM ^
Only came clean once he was caught. Did everything he could to get away with it first then did the play acting that was required of him.
This wasn't the Tigers scandal and they went and smeared themselves with it.
October 30th, 2020 at 3:51 PM ^
I mean why would he come clean if he weren’t caught. “Hey, everybody we just won the World Series, but guess what you don’t know. We cheated.”
October 30th, 2020 at 3:00 PM ^
The Astros also had a strong analytics department. I think our front office is still happy if you know how to use a graphing calculator.
October 30th, 2020 at 5:37 PM ^
This is the thing. Do the Tigers have the analytics front office to make Hinch useful? Hiring Hinch for using his gut like Dusty Baker would be an interesting experiment, although a pointless one if the players are still talentless.
October 30th, 2020 at 7:25 PM ^
The Tigers have actually been investing in analytics quite a bit since Avila took over. They are now in the top half of largest analytic departments in baseball, which is pretty impressive considering they had nothing with Dombrowski.